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Rey is more powerful than the Chosen One, his offspring, any dark side user, everyone

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by YubNubBub, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    A lucky shot on a DeathStar being lightly guided by the force....

    A lucky mishap into a trade ship over Naboo by young Anakin in which he blows it up from the inside....

    These do not compare to the rate of progression of Rey and they are NOT the same.

    Rey is the most powerful force user we have seen. Now if Anakin as a boy, just introduced to the force, was mind tricking pulling objects (same as Luke), you MIGHT have a point.

    But you don't have a point here.


    Rey has miraculous force progression and this is something we have never seen in Star Wars, fact. It is also not explained nor does it fit well within SW lore.

    She upsurps and undoes not only the character of Anakin, but Luke as well. Your a traitor to both Anakin and Luke if you think this betrayal of their characters in such a fashion is ok. Traitor! (duel)

    Seriously though, you are. Rey is the most powerful force user and with no explanation. She is capable of not only defeating Anakin in his prime, but Darth Vader during his power peak, and she is capable of defeating Luke during any point in his journey of the force.

    Rey is the first woman Jedi we get to see up close and she is by far more powerful than any other force user... even those from Lregends, Exar Kun.... if we want to go to canon...... Darth Bane....

    Rey is all powerful at this point. This screws everything up, betrays Anakin's character, Luke's, and yes indeed you are a traitor if you don't have a problem with it. Comparing a lucky shot with guidance from the force with Luke to the Deathstar, or comparing little boy Anakin who was lucky with slight force guidance on destroying the Naboo Command Ship, not the same at all to Rey's progression of POWERS.

    There is no spinning this. Rey is the most powerful SW character in Lore, and she undoes not only the Chosen One, but all his offspring as well. She simply does not fit into Canon, but I'm interested in your spins and trying to justify such a character.

    (lightsaber)

    Edit: I felt this rebuttal needed added to the first page to discourage any further fallacious arguements:

    Rey flying the Falcon.... OK.

    Rey on the mind trick. She may have had the knowledge from Ren but not the experience. You can have the knowledge of something and be unable to put it into practice. The fact she did it in under 3 tries, with no supervision under a Mentor, makes her far more powerful than Anakin, Yoda, Obi Wan, Luke.... etc etc. Unrealistic.

    Regarding Rey vs Kylo in TFA. Once again, despite having the knowledge she has no experience. Even a handicapped Kylo Ren holds the advantage from years upon years of training. Or do you suppose during Kylo's training or experiences in the galaxy he was never injured and fought through it? Or conflicted? Kylo held the advantage regardless from experience, and it was even stated that pain enhances the Dark Side users capabilities under duress. The fact he killed Han Solo and overcame thst obsticle, was another plot point that gave him an advantage, growing deeper in the Dark Side of the Force. Rey was no match for Kylo Ren, even injured.

    Rey versus the Praetorian guards. Regardless of her abilities, her journey maybe only began within a week of this scene. She has already mastered the force and lightsaber techniques. Given this, she did indeed deserve to beat them. However, her unexplained super mastery leaves questions about canon and the accuracy of her character.

    Rey and Kylo force pulling the same lightsaber. I have no problem with this scene.

    Rey lifting rocks. Unrealistic, again she does not have the experience, she may have the knowledge but not the experience. She didn't go from a single few rocks and work her way up. She mastered it right away. Unrealistic.

    Regarding the rest, nothing else needs to be said. Clearly she doesn't have the experience yet excels anyway. Making her more powerful than any predecessor before her. She clearly has the ability to take Snoke on 1 vs 1. So the whole Snoke throwing her around scene was completely unrealistic.

    Edit2: To discourage fallacious arguements regarding arguements of novice force powers to compare to Rey, I felt this rebuttal was needed:

    I don't but I'd like to point out a few things.

    Luke had knowledge of the jedi mind trick from Obi Wan doing it on Tatooine. "What was that?" "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded". Does that mean he could do it? I'm sure that would have came in handy on the Death Star especially in the raid to free Princess Leia. After all, Imperial soldiers who mindlesly follow orders with no objection are weak minded, as shown by Obi Wan on Tatooine. What was implied was this power was only available to an experienced user in the Force.

    Anakin could see an iPad. Impressive. But could he grab objects immediately? Could he use mind tricks?

    Yes indeed, the Force guided his piloting skills in ANH for Luke. But that doesn't quite equal mind tricks or force pull does it?

    Your citing novice powers in your defense of Rey.

    Again, she is POWERFUL, more powerful than Anakin, Luke.... anyone.
     
    #1 YubNubBub, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2018
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  2. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Is she though? Luke fought Rey off pretty easily on Ahch-To. Furthermore Rey had no chance against Snoke's power in the Throne Room. Yes, she is strong in the force, but she definitely isn't the strongest force user ever.
     
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    From one of the other hate threads:

    Okay, let's go through this one by one.

    Rey flies the Falcon: She has spent her life looking at ship schematics, actually flown some ships, used a simulator - and she has natural instincts, like Anakin in TPM.

    Rey uses a mind trick: Rey believes in the Force. She connects with Kylo Ren who looks into her mind but opens a channel into his, that Rey exploits. From doing this Rey sees something that is possible through the Force - that one can take thoughts from people's minds and, in a desperate bid to escape (may as well try something), she sees if she can put a thought into another persons head.

    Rey goes toe to toe with Kylo Ren: Kylo Ren has just been shot by Chewie's powerful bowcaster (it's power being made a point of twice in the film) and slashed on the arm by Finn. He is also severely conflicted after murdering his father - and weakened by the act. Rey, as we have established, believes in the Force and is realising what powers are available to her - the basic level Jedi powers. So she tries to force grab the saber (the stories of old Jedi that she heard likely mentioned such powers). And it works. Why? Because of her raw power that is a reaction to Kylo Ren's. It gives her the strength to overpower him whilst he is in a weakened state. She then uses her combat abilities, partially learned from when on Jakku (again a point was made of that when she fights of three assailants) and a new element which discovering the Force has afforded her. Keep in mind, she is more open minded than Luke was (who barely knew what was possible mid-way through the 2nd chapter). And after remembering the lesson Maz Kanata taught her, listens to the Force and gains energy from it vs a depleted Ren - and she beats him.

    Rey fights the Praetorian Guards: Not all that different from facing Ren. And she has had a little more time to develop her understanding. But really, she doesn't do anything that different here than what she did in TFA. She is attuned to the Force and non-FS guards are not individually a match for her or Ren. Though it's not exactly a quick and easy fight!

    Rey matches Ren with Force grab of lightsaber: Again, they're equals in terms of raw abilities. And Kylo is not of sound mind. He's still all over the place. Rey knows what she has to do and she knows who she is. This isn't a display of advanced Force knowledge but the raw power we keep hearing of. They both try a simple Force grab but their advanced connection to the Force makes a display of their huge power.

    Rey lifts some rocks: She is doing what Yoda EXPECTED Luke to be able to do after a few days traing, doing somersaults and what-not. And she has the advantage of actually believing in the Force as much as one can and knowing what is possible. Luke failed at this. And so, again, using the standard Jedi power of telekinesis isn't a big jump. If she believes and has a strong natural connection to the Force then at this point she can do whatever she sets her mind too.

    Now, if Rey started Force projecting herself, or flashing lightning from her finger tips ala Luke/Snoke, then yes - that'd be hard to explain. But as far as I can see, everything else is perfectly explained.
     
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  4. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Her midi-chlorian count is over 100,000.
     
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  5. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    There is nothing I could add, sir. Well done.
     
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  6. Bendak Starkiller

    Bendak Starkiller Force Sensitive

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    Heads up everyone:

    If you like Rey and don't have a problem with her character, then you are a....
    [​IMG]
     
    #6 Bendak Starkiller, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  7. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    There r a couple of things (keep in mind i dont like Rey at all) that r more OP then what Rey is doing now.

    Like Deadly Sight (just killing with a look through the Force) or becoming 1 with the Force briefly without having 2 die like Jacen Solo.
     
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  8. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    The ironic thing is that she barely even knows what the Force is, and she obviously doesn't understand it as evident by her repeated questions about "what's happening with me?". Even in her first battle with Kylo, she's like "The Force?" (although I get this was mostly added as a callback to Luke's "The Force?" in ANH, but it proves my point). The funny thing is that Luke's "The Force?" question was probably the first time he had ever heard about the Force, but Rey's "the Force"?" question was the third time someone talked to her about it (Han, Maz, Kylo). I call that bad writing, but that's for another thread. :D

    Honestly though, the argument that "believing" is enough to understand and master something is outright stupid. Being able to master something while not even knowing what you're doing is beyond my comprehension.

    It's like, if a highly intelligent NASA scientist simply "believed" in rocket science, he or she would be able to build a rocket. No training needed! Oh, the power of belief!

    And for a more fair comparison, you just have to look at any other fantasy/sci-fi series. Take the Harry Potter world for example; all young wizards and witches are shown to have gifts already at birth, some more than others. But none are able to master them without proper training and years of work. Even Voldemort needed training.

    It's time for the mindless defense.... to end.
     
    #8 Boss Vos, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  9. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    All I have a problem with is the lifting of 50 boulders. This came after she epically failed her training by assaulting her master, getting turned on by Kylo because he was shirtless (even though he's a "monster" who killed Han and could have killed Finn for all she knew)

    blushes Oh, you monster! Please put a shirt on! :p

    gravitates to dark side cave

    puts lightsaber to Luke's throat

    steals books

    doesn't finish training


    ..and then she's magically able to lift more than any Jedi we've ever seen.

    Yoda would have flipped out if Luke tried any of that. He would have said to Obi Wan: "Dangerous like his father he is, be stopped he must!"

    Great message for girls. Act like an ***hole to those who teach you, become attracted to bad guys who almost kill your friends etc.. what the hell was this movie.
     
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  10. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    It is not about powerlevels, the force has a bit of an influence too. Remember how many time we saw Vader loose? This isn't a computer game, the narrative defines the outcome. Let us not forget how Snoke toyed with two opponents at the same time.
     
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  11. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    And yet Harry talks to snakes before any training...and makes glass disappear...


    A point I left out is to do with the idea of "The Force awakening". The Force, as described by pablo, has been dormant and has now awoken. That strikes me as sounding quite violent - like an eruption. And so the awakening of the Force could be providing our characters with greater strength than we have seen before (See Broom Boy). Though it is also made clear in the movies that you don't have to train Jedi to use the Force. But that the Jedi have a lot of knowledge about the Force and that their training makes you "better" than everyone else.

    Personally, I think “the Force” line vs kylo was just about her remembering to listen to it - that it is within her. It strikes me that she likely heard stories about what they could do and then when Han said they were real, it opened her mind.
     
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  12. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Yeah u gotta admit dat shes goes from "your a monster" 2 "gasping" when touching the minsters hand in like 2 days.

    Because, girl power!
     
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  13. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    All things by accident, out of his control. Rey's mind trick is not something happening by accident, she is in full control.

    There's no point in defending Rey. It's getting old.
     
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  14. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    In or out of control, neither required training or knowledge of the power. And the mind trick thing is quite easily explained. You’re just choosing to reject the explanation so you have something else minor to moan about.
     
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  15. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    as much as i dislike using other franchises as comparisons...

    Rey doing the mind trick purposefully, sure. kinda like when Voldemort would tell other kids what to do when he was young, pre-Hogwarts.
     
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  16. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    The mind trick is not easily explained. I made a point about about Harry's magic stuff being pure accidents (he didn't even know magic was real before Hogwarts) - everything happened out of control, whereas Rey's mind trick scene CLEARLY shows her being fully aware of the situation and in control.

    You're just choosing to reject a very, very fine argument which proves a point and explains why Rey is ridiculous.
     
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson :p
     
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  18. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    I don't get the headline, not only Rey but everybody.
    Just an example ho to blaster bolt.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel General

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    Voldemort is still the villain. A villain is supposed to be all-powerful, otherwise there's no tension in the story. Rey is not the villain, she's supposed to be the everyman character (like Luke and Anakin, or like Harry and Frodo).
     
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  20. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    Of course the mind trick is "easily" explained. Kylo probed her mind & showed her is was possible. Then, from her brief conversations about the force with Han & Maz, Rey deduced she could do it too. Bleep bloppity bloop and she did a mind trick. You see, Rey is just a fast learner.
     
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