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Rey is more powerful than the Chosen One, his offspring, any dark side user, everyone

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by YubNubBub, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    Please stop feeding this guy's multiple troll threads. Please.
     
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  2. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    just one...

    more...

    post...

    (gamorrean)
     
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  3. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    I could Ice Skate the first time I put skates on. I stumbled a couple of times, but pretty much could just skate. My cousins had to go to the local rink to get lessons because they couldn't do it.

    I always imagined that mind trick and force pull were just extensions of concentrating on doing the act. Force pull is the act of concentrating on an object and then reaching for it as if it was close to you. The very gifted may not even need to think that hard...evidence Broom Boy. The mind trick is similar. You still haven't answered how you practice the mind trick.

    The only training we've seen on screen has to do with focus, concentration and balance. Luke's running through Dagobah was about him feeling the force flow. The training we've seen in the Prequels was similar. Younglings trying to see the remote. Something Luke was able to do on the 3rd try. Similar to Rey's mind trick.
     
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  4. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Very well put. I always say the same about this topic.

    The prequel trilogy's idea about becoming a jedi has done a greater damage than most would think. It made it seem like all you have to do is practice with a mini- lightsaber from a young age and you're guaranteed to become a space ninja. That is not at all the story the OT was trying to tell... Every jedi goes through a unique journey. Every one of them have different virtues and weaknesses. They don't become stronger by doing 100 push ups a day... They become stronger by training the mind and character through physical (but not only physical!) training and not the way around...
    The jedi mind trick is very definitely not something you practice like football or kung fu...

    The Force has a great power over the weak minded. Rey knew about the jedi. She' s heard about their legendary abilities. She believes in the Force more than Luke in ANH (because she's heard the tales of Luke). She was in a great need, tried her best and succeeded. Dosen't mean she can do it again. Dosen't mean she "mastered the craft" or some similar bollocks. It's just a step of her unique journey.
     
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  5. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    Anakin obviously was practicing the mind trick on Padme. Let's be honest: there's no other way he's landing Natalie Portman with those corny a$$ pick up lines

    Took him a few tries before he got it right too
     
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  6. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Not to mention the mass-murder. ;)
     
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  7. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    Your intentionally ignoring the PT and OT in this line of thinking.

    What could Luke do at the end of ANH? Use the force to guide his flying skills? Block some blaster bolts ineffeciently and get hit? Time elapse. What about ESB? He could barely pull a lightsaber to save himself from a Wampa.

    I honestly shouldn't have to tell you any of this. You already know it. Yet you ignore Luke, Anakin's progression.... etc etc and say Reys is normal? And then you contend she is not more powerful than Anakin or Luke?

    You are deeply confused sir.
     
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  8. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Sensitive

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    Since when do you have to have an understanding of something to believe in it? Many people in the real world believe in things that they can't see or fully comprehend. Also I don't understand your point about the bad writing, it really doesn't matter how many times she's previously heard it... okay well, it does but three isn't too many. It's pretty okay if she forgets about her newly discovered powers while she's in a fight for her life.

    And your Harry Potter comparison is just as asinine as your NASA comparison... we're still in two completely different worlds.

    Who says Rey has mastered the Force? And at the same time... who says Rey has no idea what she's doing? What Rey knows is the physical properties of the Force, the telekinetic powers. The things that she doesn't understand are more on the mental side and how she herself connects to the Force. She knows, "you can move rocks around and stuff" but she doesn't know why, and for that reason Rey hasn't mastered the Force.

    I know I have to press the power button on my remote to turn on the TV, but how does my pressing of the button actually lead to the TV turning on? Beats me. Luckily it's just a TV and not a mystical universe binding energy.

    She knows how to pull the lightsaber because that's the one part of the Force she does understand and she learns how to get into people's minds because Kylo tried it on her earlier in the film. The only time you could say she does something that she doesn't know how to do is when she connects with the Force at the very end when facing Kylo... but that brings me to my final point...

    If she's the real awakening in the light, it's entirely possible that it was the Force connecting with her instead of the other way around. It's a two way street. All you really have to do to let the Force in is clear your mind and let it flow through you.
     
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  9. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    You mean when he was bleeding, half conscious, and upside-down?

    Yeah, what a weakling, that he was barely able to lift a sword with his mind then. :p
     
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  10. Flyboy

    Flyboy Force Sensitive

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    Luke projected himself to another planet on the other side of the galaxy... until Rey can do that, I think it's safe to assume Luke edges her out.
     
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  11. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    Naaah, she must've been pretty eager to... discuss some tax disputes as well.
    You know, since senators aren't allowed to date for some reason.
     
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  12. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    No, you will find it is you who are mistaken...about a great many thingssss.

    First, you lie about Luke. He deflected the bolts on the 3rd attempt....just like Rey's mind trick.
    Second, Anakin could read images off of Mace Windu's Jedi iPad....no training.
    Third, Luke hit a shot a targeting computer couldn't hit...by just "using the force" after Ben told him too. No training. Just doing it.
    Fourth, Luke's saber was stuck in the snow and ice. All he did was concentrate. No training. Do you think he had a Jedi training manual and was reading it in between ANH and ESB?

    Remember when Qui-Gon told little Ani to "feel, don't think. Use your instincts." That doesn't require training. Guess what, he won the Pod race using his natural Jedi abilities.

    Do you reject these facts?
     
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  13. TheTruTru

    TheTruTru Rebelscum

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    I haven't read the books, so I'm asking this as a genuine question: does it say in the books that she knew how to do the mind trick because Kylo tried it on her?
     
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  14. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    She progressed in the force faster than a younger Luke with zero experience. Comparison, she outdid Luke, Anakin, Obi Wan... the list goes on and on.

    She is the most powerful force user we have ever seen.

    The Snoke/Rey fight was laughable, it should have been an Anakin/Dooku moment.

    Rey can kill virtually anyone.

    With her mastery of telekinesis as shown by the rocks, Snoke should not have been able to throw her around like that.

    She mirrors Darth Vader in full prime on ESB chucking stuff at Luke or the Rogue One hallway scene. Rey is the most powerful force user ever known in SW lore.
     
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  15. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson :)
     
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  16. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    I don't but I'd like to point out a few things.

    Luke had knowledge of the jedi mind trick from Obi Wan doing it on Tatooine. "What was that?" "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded". Does that mean he could do it? I'm sure that would have came in handy on the Death Star especially in the raid to free Princess Leia. After all, Imperial soldiers who mindlesly follow orders with no objection are weak minded, as shown by Obi Wan on Tatooine. What was implied was this power was only available to an experienced user in the Force.

    Anakin could see an iPad. Impressive. But could he grab objects immediately? Could he use mind tricks?

    Yes indeed, the Force guided his piloting skills in ANH for Luke. But that doesn't quite equal mind tricks or force pull does it?

    Your citing novice powers in your defense of Rey.

    Again, she is POWERFUL, more powerful than Anakin, Luke.... anyone.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    *insert topical joke about how we should probably adopt that rule for our senators, too

    The "One character doesn't do something so other characters can't either" thing is an argument I'll just never understand.

    Consider the entire reason group projects exist (outside of torturing students and rewarding laziness)- brainstorming. Unless your character is a superpowered quantum-computer, they're not always going to analyze every possibility in every reality and then choose the optimal outcome. They're gonna forget stuff. They're gonna make mistakes.

    We don't see Luke try a mindtrick on the Death Star, that's true. And it would have been helpful. But, well, to be fair, Luke's a famrboy and he's in an incredibly tense situation.

    For reference, there's a videogame called Superhot. It's for VR and it's a ton of fun, but I digress. I bring it up because at one point you get this power to shoot energy at your enemies (not totally like our friend Sheev). Regardless of the fact that I had this incredibly ability, I almost never used it. I always forgot I had it, instead opting for more conventional weapons. Does that mean my friends would be unable to use that power in game as well, just because I didn't?

    We later do see Luke try the mindtrick, in Jabba's Palace. Did you see him learn that from Yoda? If Yoda talked to Luke about it offscreen, can you prove Obi did not as well?

    And to be honest, you can diminish the "iPad" thing as much as you want, but unless you can provide a detailed explanation of exactly how one power is more complex than the other, it doesn't really hold up.
     
    #77 cawatrooper, Jan 8, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
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  18. Rellum

    Rellum Rebelscum

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    My issue with the way the force is handled in the ST films is that it is more of a deity rather than a force that users could tap into and let flow through them. One of the worst big picture parts of the PT is the creation of Anakin by the force but that was the only time we had the force influence events before the ST. They have taken that idea and run with it. Than combined with the balance idea which I also have issues with and is so limiting in the future.
     
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  19. Snazel

    Snazel Rebel Official

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    I always disliked the "power versus power" arguments, even from the days of comics. I can point to issues where Spider-Man essentially defeats and outwits the entire X-Men, another time where Wolverine alone has Spider-Man completely cornered and defeated.

    There's no way to really measure these things, it's not really something you can quantify. I mean we are talking about literary devices and trying to measure them with spoons and tupperware.

    I think Rey's arc in VII and VIII is fascinating and she is one of the key reasons the sequel trilogies are working and making bank. She is very unique in her own way but also holds notes and themes from the original trilogy. Daisy works out hard, performs well in battle scenes and most important, she's become an iconic hero to a lot of young women out there, go to a comic convention and you'll see all the girls dressed as Rey.

    And therein lies the real "power" of Rey, she's connecting to her audience and both the character and actor are delivering a new future to Star Wars.

    Remember this franchise was dead in the water not long ago, see the returns of the 3-D Release of The Phantom Menace for proof. So Rey's power is indeed strong, she helped bring Star Wars back and it now makes 1-billion world wide in 3-weeks.
     
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  20. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    i agree with this sentiment to some extent.

    when Kylo and Rey are Forcing skyping and Kylo says something like, "why is the Force doing this?" i thought that was kinda weird. who is he referring to exactly?

    i always imagined the Force being more akin to taoism than anything even remotely theistic.
     
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