SPECULATION The Official Leia Discussion Thread

didn't Yoda tell Luke that he would be a true Jedi once he had faced Vader again?

either way.. there was no sod left to give the poor boy his certificate lol

 

"Not yet. One thing remains: Vader. You must...confront...Vader. Then, only then, a Jedi, will you be. And confront him, you will." Luke is a Jedi.

 

Thought I would take a second to introduce myself and some random speculation I have. First, I want to thank those that run the sight for doing so. I always enjoy good star wars speculation. Star Wars IV was the first movie I saw in the theater, I was about 5 years old at the time. I saw Return of the Jedi on opening night and it was unlike any movie experience I have had since.

I have no connection, I don't know anybody, this is just speculation based upon watching the movies, reading some books, and building on my own writing experience. I won't pretend to know things I don't know.

I have gone to film school, so I know a bit there, but I am a lawyer by trade not a filmmaker. I wish it was the other way, but alas it is not.

ARE HAN AND LEIA TOGETHER?

I don't believe so. I know this is contrary to EU literature, but here's why. If I open a story with the major love relationship of the series in tact and all perfect as all EU books write it, where does it go? Why is it there? There is no place to take the character emotionally because everything is perfect. Carrie fisher, one of the best script doctors around hinted at this in early interviews when she said that Han and Leia communicate only through the droids. It was a joke, but she has a valid point. If Han and Leia start the movie together, then one of them will die and one will live and to be honest the one who dies has to be Leia. The reason is she is too strong of a character. She could survive the death of Han much more than Han could the death of her. It is a more interesting story. I do believe they were together at some time and had a child, I just think it fell apart. Han would not be the easiest person to live with.

NO JAINA OR JASON

As much as I like the Jaina Jason story line, and it might be here. I think the story is more interesting if we start to move away from the Skywalker family a bit. Take a teenage early twenties child (farmboy type) and bring them on an adventure. It is the typical way a fantasy story is written. I do think Luke has a kid and some character created from the blown up refuge of Mara Jade exists, where they are, I don't know. The death of Mara is a good reason to put Luke in hiding.

THE EU HAD TO GO

I knew this before they announced it. No writer worth anything would want to be forced to wade into all the EU books and construct episode VII out of their wake. First of all it makes a depressing Han Solo. A father who has lost two of his three children and his best friend makes for a borderline drunk by the time VII would open. I like the EU stories, but this was a natural progression

THE OLD REPUBLIC DOES NOT HAVE TO GO

It does not have much impact on the films and it keeps KOTOR and the online game intact, even if they never say they are canon.

NEITHER LUKE or HAN WILL DIE IN THIS FILM

There is no way to create the feel of the OT if you will one of these two characters. No matter what you put in this movie, you could make a two hour dancing extravaganza complete with Disney songs and the death of these characters will mean the movie is about one thing, the death of that character. Period. I make no promises about the droids, Leia, or Chewy. In fact it would make perfect sense to kill Chewy saving Han. A life debt repaid.

thanks for the great site and thanks for reading

 

Welcome aboard. Definitely a great site to get pumped for next year - and per all the chatter the last few days, it looks like you dropped by just in time for something big..........

Well, my gut tells me Han is exiting stage left 2015. Luke will be a presence throughout the trilogy - unclear if he will bite it, but I hope not in the first movie.

 

I don't think it makes sense to move focus away from the Anakin bloodline. I certainly don't think doing that somehow makes it more interesting.

I also think a remodeled version of Jaina and Jacen would be really interesting if well done (never forget how many people watching the movies have ZERO knowledge of the old EU).

 

I hear what all of you are saying, and I appreciate your points of view. But I just don't see it that way.

Luke is not a member of the Jedi in the same sense as all the other Jedi before him. It's not just that he doesn't inherit the Jedi traditions or rules, or does not see himself as the guardian of peace and justice in the Galaxy - what Han called "delusions of granduer". Luke is not a Jedi in the sense that he is not obsessed with killing Sith.

For a long time the Jedi and the Sith tried to kill each other. That's all they did. It was a zero-sum game. If a Jedi has the chance to hunt down a Dark Side of the Force user and kill him, that's what he did. Same with the Sith. Their whole purpose for existing was to rid the Galaxy of one another. Neither side ever stopped to ask themselves "Hey, why do we want to frag these brother Force users, anyway?"

Luke wasn't part of that. He had no desire to kill his own father. I think Luke realized the entire Clone War was the result of the Force being split into two warring factions, and he had no desire to continue the same mindless warfare that plunged the Galaxy into the current mess.

So when I say Luke isn't a Jedi I guess I'm saying he's not a partizan, not part of a faction or a member of a rival gang. Because he grew up without the indoctrination of the Jedi I think he can see Force-sensitive beings as something other than "with us or against us."

And that's why I don't see Luke rebuilding the Jedi Order in the ST.

Of course, December 2015 might prove me wrong

 

Very interesting idea I had never even considered. While I can see him perhaps not rebuilding the Jedi Order as it once was or we know it, I do think - or at least hope - that he has trained Leia and a couple others. Not to bring back the Jedi Order, but just to ensure there are still good guys out there that can use the force.

 

Yes, exactly!

 

With the oppression of Palpatine gone there could be alot of people who have jedi artifacts perhaps holocrons, old lightsabers
who decide to give or show the the only known Jedi in the Galaxy and who also is largely responsible for old Palpatine no longer being around to outlaw Jedi stuff. Notsaying he would form a order based on the old jedi order but he could conceivably have access to jedi material in some fashion or another.
I personally think if he does it at all, he should do it different from the old order. Find something more of a comprise with the old style code but with a new understanding of a ( EU reference) unified force a grey outlook about the force, the line between the light and the dark.though the line still exists but in degrees
that isthe style jedi Leia will be being trained by Luke and hopefully they found someoinfo on lightsaber forms as he was definitely limited on form and technique although obviously good i imagine he would seek some ways of increasing his jedi prowess and martial skills if he is a utter bad dad's in 7 then must have had more training....

 

I think Han and Leia are together it's the only way to have a new generation of Skywalker’s bloodline without doing alot of explaining. If we say to some one who has never heard about any EU materials if you ask them who has some kids 30 years later it's Han and Leia's no explanation necessary it's assumed there fore easily done in the movie so details a plot structure can get past explaining Leia or luke having kids that are grown. Though they may still do that with luke if he has a son or daughter I'm betting the mom is dead
but it was always Han and Leia
Leia-"I love you"
Han-" I know"
It just works

 

Han and Leia can have the next generation of Skywalkers without being together. This happens all the time. The only point was that there are more places to go. Also, on Han biting the bullet in episode VII. Why would Harrison Ford ask for a three film arc for his character, which was reported in August of last year, if he died in VII? It doesn't make sense.

I've no doubt the Skywalkers and Solo's have kids in this series. I just think it sounds to me like they have debated making "Kira" a Solo kid. From the rumors it sounds to me like she's not. This does not mean that the Skywalker and Solo kids don't play a significant part in the trilogy. It just means that their role might expand as the series goes on.

I would not mind the idea that Adam Driver plays a variation of Jacen Solo/Darth Caedus, its a great story line. The other part does not "have" to be played by his sister.

I expect to see bits and pieces of EU stuff in a new form somehow, we just don't know how.

 

Welcome aboard, and that was an excellent read. And thank you for your "I haven't seen anything, just using logic" disclaimer.

On to your points, I'd like to add my thoughts:


ARE HAN AND LEIA TOGETHER? - Very interesting opinion on that, and I do agree it will perhaps feel weird to most of us. Overall I feel what you speculate makes sense, though I could see developing into the two of them eventually starting to get back together, be it through tragedy or what have you. It would give us an experience similar to what made it feel special in ESB, and would especially toy with our insides if one of them does indeed bite the dust.

NO JAINA OR JASON - I never personally ventured that far into the EU, or at least have lost my memory of it. Your mention of the "farmboy type child" does make me think of Daisy Ridley's possible character (Kira, supposedly) who seems to rough it out on a desert planet from what latest rumors state. Speculation is that she is introduced early on.

THE EU HAD TO GO - Totally. It was far too convoluted, and people in general can only have so many adventures for it to remain believable. Don't get me wrong -- it had some very good stuff. But damn, the galaxy sure went to crap in a bucket for a LONG time after ROTJ.

THE OLD REPUBLIC DOES NOT HAVE TO GO - Agreed. Even with the statement that the Republic had existed for 1000 years by a Naboo adviser in EP I, it was easily altered to mean "since that reformation after Ruusan" by the EU to account for all the much older dates and adventures. The pre-prequels EU era in general seemed a bit more balanced than the post-ROTJ EU at least.

NEITHER LUKE or HAN WILL DIE IN THIS FILM - Not sure I completely agree. Having Luke die would mirror the death of Qui-Gon in EP I and the death of Obi-Wan in ANH, and Luke could perhaps serve in a similar role as Obi-Wan did after death. But in essence, you probably are correct.


So, good speculatin' there, and by all means have a good time here... and try not to let some of the speculation flying around here ruffle your feathers. I've already had a moment of that already.

 

good OP, and welcome to the boards!

the Han and Leia thoughts are interesting, but i'm not sure i agree that they won't be together.

most mainstream films (of pretty much any genre) have a love story either at the heart of them, or subtly down the spine of them so you kinda don't notice them. With the OT it was with Han and Leia.. which was subtle and was there throughout the 3 films. If the new trilogy is to be centred around the same core characters as the OT.. then i would agree that Han and Leia would probably not be together as there's nowhere to go with it. If as predicted the new films primarily focus on a younger generation of characters then i'd suspect the on/off will they/wont they love story will belong to them.

not sure that i agree with the crap i just wrote.. with the stuff thats coming out i'm wondering if my own thoughts are mis-direction from JJ. but its fun speculating lol

 

Welcome! I just want to comment on each of your points.

Han & Leia?
I think they got together, made babies, and it didn't work out. Han and his dog *cough*Chewbacca*cough* get kicked out, his truck, I mean the Falcon breaks down, and only 1 of their children go with him (Ridley's character). Hmm sounds like an outerspace country song.

Jaina & Jacen?
I still belive Ridley will be a Jaina-esque character and Driver a Jacen-esque character but obviously not twins. Driver will go with mom (Leia) and go into politics while growing in the dark side of the Force and growing to dislike his father who he will blame for his parents' "divorce". While Ridley will adventure around the galaxy with and sometimes without dad (Han) & dog (Chewie) but also training with uncle Luke to be a Jedi.

EU had to go?
Yes it did. Too many things did't make sense, the timeline was crazy, and too many authors throwing in their own two cents. It needed the reboot.

The Old Republic?
Let it be. It didn't change the movie storylines at all so why erase that? Just keep the KOTOR and Darth Bane stories though, some of the other stuff was just dumb (ie Red Harvest....)

Luke or Han's death?
I doubt either of them will die but if one of them did, I could see it happening to Luke and him being a Force Ghost aiding our lead Jedi characters throughout the rest of the trilogy. Han? I could see him dying in the final episode of the trilogy.

 

I should give a full disclaimer, Exar Kun is one of my favorite Star Wars Characters.

that being said.

It is true that in both Trilogy's we have had a jedi mentor character die in the first film. This leads a lot of credence to the argument that Luke will bite the dust in episode VII. However, the death of Qui Gon and Obi Wan both served to reinforce in their followers why they would never fall. Luke watched Vader kill the only one he really believed in. He would never fall after that, the same of Obi wan.

Such a function is normally played by a Jedi, but it does not have to be. If Boyega is indeed an imperial looking for redemption, then sacrificing for the cause could serve that function from a literary stand point. I'm not even saying he's going to die, but other characters can fill this role.

This is important, because the one thing I learned watching JJ's Star Trek films is that he loves to take familiar characters and relationships and flip roles with them. Examples of this in Star Wars could be

1. Han rescuing Luke
2. Seeing Hans sarcasm and humor as a defense mechanism in a relationship. It becomes less funny, but offers more character growth.
3. Chewy dying to save Han.

There are a million things he could do and I expect we will see some of it.

On the Kira/Jaina idea. That is a possibility. Also, perhaps Kira is a Solo and does not know it. Not sure how this would happen as it would involve a ton of untold backstory between Han and Leia.

 

Maybe Han and Leia split up after she was born and never knew Leia was her mom or Luke was Leia's sister. She may know his as "uncle" Luke, Han's crazy old Jedi best friend.

 

I think that is a real possibility. As I wrote above, I do believe Han and Leia had kids. The interesting thing about what they have done here is the "world of the story" as we called it in school. Unlike the characters in the OT and PT, we have characters who have lived under war for their whole lives. This will take a toll on people. I've no doubt that Leia is fighting the good fight still 30 years on, I do have doubts about Hans willingness to continue to fight what has to seem like a pointless conflict after a point in time. I think this is especially true if some of his children are dead because of it and one of his best friends is in hiding. 30 years of war takes its toll on people emotionally and has to change who the characters are. Its not like Han went to work at the factory and lived in the suburbs for a couple decades.

 

I'm thinking that Luke will train some others and start to rebuild a new order that will be drastically different. They will fight for what's right and moral rather than fighting to appease a Galactic Senate. They will be like an Avengers type team, that strive for peace and justice even if the government is agaisnt them.

 

Well, Ford was disappointed with his lack of screen time/arc w/ ROTJ and wanted to be killed off in the past. If JJ and Co. amended the script for 7 so that the OT cast would get more screen time (per Ford's stipulations) and only in the future installments will the symbolic torch be passed, why couldn't we assume he is not going to wait around and take a back seat for 8 and 9? Plus, he's got Indy, maybe Blade Runner coming up..... although in great shape for his age, the man is 72 y/o after all.

 

So Indy 5 & 6 are going to happen? I figured the movie would focus more on Shia LeBouf's character with Harrison Ford as a cameo type role.