The Reason Why Finn Can Wield A Lightsaber

Can you point to any examples of someone using a lightsaber and maiming themselves? Seems like non-force users have never maimed themselves in the current cannon.

 

I figured it was on account of his opposable thumbs. A dairy cow might have a hard time using one though.

 

You realise Duffelblog is satire, don't you?

A weightless blade doesn't make something impossible, or even particularly difficult to use.

The problem right now with your theory is that there are far more in-canon stories of non-force sensitive, untrained people using lightsabers without hurting themselves, than there are of the contrary.

Han AND Chewie wield lightsabers during an arena battle that takes place some time before TESB in the new canon.
They are neither trained or Force sensitive, but managed to wield the lightsabers well enough to survive without any self-inflicted wounds, as shown:




I still don't think Finn is as good with a lightsaber as you believe. He couldn't even defeat Nines.
Kylo Ren not killing him instantly is not a particularly great indicator of Finn's ability.

 

He had training in the art of combat with unlike FINN who seemed to have basic training

The Stormtrooper's official name is FN-2199, aka Nines

 

That, in itself, is flawed conjecture, and highly subjected to how the weapon is being used.
We're not talking about fancy katas, twirls, or flourishes here.
We're talking about basic thrusts and swings.

When you fight as Finn does, you can see the blade at nearly all times.
The only time you ever see the lightsaber extend beyond his peripheral vision his when he is making large overhead swings.
But there are other senses which may allow untrained, non-Force Sensitives to wield a lightsaber which are fairly unique to that weapon.
Have you ever used weapon where the blade itself creates a constant hum... let alone the weapon itself?

If you can see the blade, hear the blade, and potentially even feel heat emanating from the blade, you can quite safely use a lightsaber without the Force.

And yet you've failed to produce a single, solid piece of evidence to that effect.
Nothing in your OP is definitive by any means, particularly in the case of Finn's specific use.

Exactly, that's why he couldn't defeat Nines. In the canon book, Before the Awakening, Finn is the better fighter... he's the only person in his squad who is able to beat Nines, yet he loses, because as you've mentioned, certain things don't carry over from different weapons.

I guess so... I've seen it a few times in the cinema, and I'm watching this several times on repeat and scrubbing through it frame-by-frame thanks to a decent cam-recording.
I see Finn rush in to attack with a number of poorly executed attacks, which Kylo Ren effortlessly bloacks with a whole lot of flashy parrying moves, twirling the lightsaber over his head and behind his back, before Kylo strikes back with 2 horizontal swings over Finn's head and a final, heavy overhead swing, which pushes Finn to the ground.
Kylo turns his attention back to his injury, as Finn get's back on his feet and tries again, rushing straight back at Kylo, who evades to the side and twirls his saber in a show of superiority. Kylo turns to the offensive, unleashing another high swing over Finn's head, before coming back around with a low swing to the ground, then moving into a a 360 degree spinning kata, leading into the saber lock where Kylo digs the quillions of his saber into Finn's shoulder. With Finn in clear agony, Kylo makes a move another heavy swing to end the duel, but Finn ducks out of the way, and Kylo Ren loses his footing, and finds himself off-balance to stop Finn's counter-attack, which lands a blow on his right shoulder.
Surprised by Finn's determination, Kylo re-evaluates his opponent who is once again rushing to attack. Kylo blocks and forces the lightsaber from Finn's hands, effectively ending the duel.

It's quite clear to me now, that Kylo enters the duel overconfident in himself.
The only reason Finn lands a blow, is because Kylo makes a mistake.

Want some additional context? Read the scene in the novel:

This isn't making a good case for Finn being Force sensitive.

I'm sure if you followed all the canon, you would find more... I'm not that up to date though.
You could, however, make the exact same argument about Finn... except in this case, Finn didn't walk away from the fight.
Did Finn survive as long as he did because he is Force Sensitive, or was it just written that way to make Finn look cool or because they want the character to stay around?

Here's some food for thought:
If you cannot use a lightsaber without training or the Force, how does one train with a lightsaber so that they can use it?
We've seen trained Force Sensitives fighting other trained Force Sensitives. We've seen trained Force sensitives defeat untrained Force sensitives (Cloud City duel). We've seen trained non-Force Sensitives defeat trained Force Sensitives (Grievous). We've also seen untrained Force Sensitives defeat trained Force Sensitives (Rey VS Kylo).
What role does the Force really play in a lightsaber duel, and why did the lightsaber become the weapon of a Jedi Knight? Was it simply because the Jedi could "feel" the blade? Unlikely, because as Grievous shows, being able to do so isn't that important.

 

Quick question. Do you see finn using a lightsaber ever again (regardless if he's force sensitive or not ,or if it's anikin's or just some random lightsaber.) in this trilogy?

 

The OP is losing this argument hard, so is pretending to ignore Canon and deciding to make up poor excuses as to why people like Han and Chewie can use a Lightsaber because it smashes their theory to pieces......... "They got lucky" is quite funny

Chewie must of been real lucky considering he dual wields LIghtsabers

 

Finn fights like someone who doesn't know what he's doing.
He grips the saber tightly with both hands, which not only restricts the range of motion, but greatly reduces the risk of self harm, as I will now demonstrate:

Home Experiment #1.
Ignoring the weightless nature of the lightsaber blade, we want to identify the range of motion affordable when wielding a sword, or similar object.
Take something of suitable length and size. Grip it firmly in both hands, and without letting go with either hand and without trying to contort your arms into awkward positions, attempt to make contact between the "blade" and your own body.
You should find that everything below your neck is practically off limits. It takes a lot of effort to hit any other part of your body.
In order to cut off your head, you would need to be blind.

Any untrained, non-Force sensitive human wielding a lightsaber in this way, should be able to do so without causing self-inflicted injuries.

Hey, I don't know what Finn is actually looking at. It's not like we see from his eyes. This is based on the observation that he almost always lightsaber is nearly always in a typical human field of vision.
Besides, I'm not equating peripheral vision to touch, I'm stating that vision will also tell you where the lightsaber is.

Side note: The biological purpose of peripheral vision is to identify things in motion, in order to help recognise threats that you may not otherwise identify.
The natural instinctive behaviour is to focus your attention toward the moving object. It actually takes training to break this instinct.
As long as things are moving, (e.g. a swinging lightsaber), peripheral vision is just as useful as your focused sight.

Again, I'm not equating sound to touch. I'm citing the ability for hearing to locate objects outside of your own vision.
Ever see Daredevil or blind swordsmen in Kung Fu movies? Similar kind of principle, but not quite as extreme.
You can witness this effect on your own:

Home Experiment #2.
You will need:
- Someone to assist you
- An electric razor (because it's kind of like a lightsaber sound), electric toothbrush, electric hair trimmers, or another device capable of producing a constant sound of uniform volume (a solid tone will also work)
- A blindfold
Now stand/sit still with the blindfold covering your eyes (or you can close your eyes). The other person now takes the razor (or substitute) and moves it around you, without letting it touch you. If possible to do so without injury, attempt to grab the object.
You may be surprised at how effectively you can locate something with hearing alone.

You failed to highlight the important key phrase here:
"With little more to go by than tracking wrist angles and visually confirming location (at some risk to your eyesight), avoiding your own blade during the whirling gymnastics of a lightsaber duel may prove impossible."
There were no whirling gymnastics on Finn's behalf in that duel, hence it doesn't really apply to him.

The theory that non-Force sensitive beings who are untrained are going to harm themselves, is a sweeping generalisation which ignores a variety of important details. Obviously, if a complete newbie picked up the lightsaber and tried to twirl it around with one hand, they would probably cause themselves some serious harm.
That's not what Finn was doing.

You don't see the problem the glaring problem here?
If Finn were indeed Force Sensitive, why did he lose to Nines, or least hold out longer than he did?

You need to be careful with looking at the details of the fight from the novel as they differ greatly from the actual duel in the film.
I would have shared the same scene from the WGA script, but it too plays out different. I'd actually say the novelisation is a little closer than the script verion, even though it's still Kylo who first charges at Finn in both.

I only shared the section from the novel, to present evidence for the idea that Kylo Ren is playing with Finn, and doesn't actually consider him a serious threat.

In the film, Kylo Ren makes a total of 7 blows at Finn (8 if you include the final disabling blow up Finn's back), 6 of which are intended to intimidate more than they are to maim and easy to block (especially when he's actually attacking the lightsaber itself). The 7th, overconfident blow is the one which changes things, as Finn ducks out of the way, leaving Kylo to continue through, and lose his footing, allowing Finn to make an easy strike. After Kylo enters "rage mode" (when he get's hit) Finn doesn't last long at all. He literally makes one final swing, and Kylo ends it with a disarming parry. The rest of the duel is a one-sided affair between a determined Finn, who swings wildly at the vastly more skilled Kylo, who effortlessly parries and evades.

While Nine's intention to kill (with a non-lethal weapon), Kylo was confident enough in himself to play around a bit. You only need to look at Kylo's expression when he's burning Finn's shoulder. He doesn't express any kind of rage or anger. He's clearly not worried about Finn at all.

I just remembered one more.
Commander Karbin, the Mon Calamari cyborg from the recent Vader Down story arc.
His ship crashed near the end of the Clone Wars, leaving him with serious injuries. After being on life support for the past 18 years, he was now gained a cybernetic body. On top of that, he's somehow managed to train himself in the use of a lightsaber to a point where he can go one-on-one with Vader. He's basically general Grievous, with a Mon Cal head, but with less reason to be any good with a lightsaber.
A completely unnecessary/ridiculous character, but canon nontheless.

Except in the case of Grievous, that didn't really help his many Jedi victims much.[/QUOTE]

 

Won't somebody think of the children?!

 

I've never gotten the whole "lightsabers can only be used effectively by FS-ers" concept anyway? If you're trained/familiar with using many other types of melee weapons, then I just don't get why a lightsaber would be oh so different? Non FS-ers being able to wield them on occasion is a non-issue for me.

 

@Cut In Two

You didn't respond to one of my posts for a change. It is on page 6 but I'll go with the abbreviated version here.

Physics aren't the same in AGFFA, so how can you use the physics of the real world as a basis for your argument?

Serious question

 

How do we know physics is different?

 

There is sound in space
Parsecs are a unit of time
They make the jump to lightspeed but never experience time dilation or any of the effects of relativity
The list goes on, there have actually been some very entertaining books and TV shows on this

 

This is like claiming a kid seen swinging a stick at a piñata must have received some specialized stick swinging lessons or possess an innate paper mache sensing ability. Probably the kid has just done something similar before and so has a general frame of reference already.

“See that glowing bit there that looks kinda like a laser? Well . . . it’s kinda like a laser, so . . . you know, don’t touch that part.”

This is just a movie. Lightsabers in this story are only as dangerous as the plot requires.

 

This poor, bloated dead horse. For those of you just tuning in to this thread, I'll get you up to speed real quick:

1. OP starts thread with the intent of convincing people that Finn is obviously Force sensitive due to the fact that he fought with Kylo Ren and didn't chop his own leg off with Anakin's blue light saber.

2. Most people disagreed, due to lack of evidence and common sense.

3. OP then throws tantrum (Kylo Ren would be proud), changes his original posting and requests thread to be locked.

4. Things begin to unravel.

5. OP then attempts to convince people of his superior intellect, SW canon knowledge, debating, bladed weapon expertise and martial arts prowess; this adds fuel to the already billowing flames, backlash ensues.

6. OP then does a 180 and re-embraces thread and continues with his crusade.

7. People still pick his theories apart, piece by piece, OP sees this as typically pathetic attempts by commoners refusing to accept his genius.

8. I have a newfound respect for the OP; this guy has what makes MURICA great, tenacity.

P.S. OP, we love you.

Signed,

The Cantina