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HUMOR The ReyLo theory is dead!! Long live the Renporer!!

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jedihopper, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. Obi-Wan-the perfect Jedi

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    I believed it when I saw TFA and I believe it after I saw TLJ.At the end Rey is in danger of being killed and Kylo by saving her will die.The only thing I didn't think was that Snoke would be killed off.I thought he would nearly kill her, then Kylo jumped in to save her and die.To avenge Kylo it would come to a final battle between Rey and Snoke and that would be the end.
     
  2. Powellfamily

    Powellfamily Clone

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    Yes. The whole point of the movie is that No person is ‘no one ’. Rey isn’t a nobody. She’s herself. Kylo is saying the opposite- that her identity means nothing unless her self worth is tied up in him. And I don’t even think that he is being Machiavellian here. He thinks that he’s telling her truth but the truth is twisted. Her horrible parents don’t define her identify. She DOES have a ‘place in the story’ regardless of whether she joins him or not.

    This is toxic masculinity - a problem that young women have been confronting for time out of mind. The question is how do we perpetuate or reject whatever teaching Kylo (and by his proxy the young men in the audience) has that keeps this dynamic in our culture.

    Women can manipulate a man into thinking that he only matters in relation to her but it seems to be less common.

    The Rey/Kylo story is instantly recognizable because we’ve all seen a young woman subsumed into some young man’s identity. We’ve seen a husband kill his wife if he leaves him. We’ve seen Rebecca Schafer’s killer who wanted to possess a woman who didn’t even know him.

    I find Kylo fascinating as a villain. It’s like getting a deconstruction of school shooter personalities through a Star Wars villain.

    As an aside, I found it interesting that Poe truly thought that he knew it all and that Holdo couldn’t be right. He even ‘mansplained’ to her.
     
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  3. Maximillian

    Maximillian Rebel General

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    That's an interesting angle to look at it from and one I hadn't considered. For Kylo Ren anyway. the bit with Poe/holdo was a more obvious macho deconstruction.

    I also think there is a sincerity to Kylo Ren's twisted logic when he tells Rey she means nothing. He is obviously talking about what Snoke/Luke think of her, and what she means to them. And when he's talking about them, he's actually talking about the value he believes they place on him...which is also nothing. Kylo Ren believes Luke doesn't value him and tried to kill him. And he knows Snoke is only using him. so he's aligning the idea that her meaning nothing & feeling inconsequential with his own feeling of the same area.
    His statement 'You're no one, but not to me.' is actually him mirroring and hoping her answer will be the same, that she sees him as a person too.

    It's really fantastic to get given a villain who is so damaged and monstrous but who also appears very human.

    and yes, the sad thing about that interaction is that Rey does have a place in the galaxy without Kylo Ren, she has Finn and Leia, the droids, friends....where as actually Kyo Ren is the one who is completely alone, the one no one cares about. This is very common too, people projecting their fears onto their friends, partners or co-workers.

    I'm a very big fan of the Rey/Ren relationship weather it becomes anything more than it is or not. because for some reason he doe's have compassion for Rey. and other than his mother he doesn't actually care for anybody.
     
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  4. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Wow the use of the word “mansplain” instantly made me dislike your post. Its like “SJW”-its a buzzword used to deflect legit criticism snd guilt trip people who disagree with you.

    Because i do with Holdo and Poe. Gender had f*k all to do with it. Holdo kept her tactic away from him and Poe being an idiot pilot went his own way. It’s not gender based at all, its a difference between perspectives and approaches to a life or death situation, and a communication breakdown.

    Kylo and Rey we can agree more on. But maybe instead of comparing it to men KILLING women (wtf kinda comparison is that?) which is an over the top comparison to bring to a fictional movie, call it out as a lesson that both girls and boys can learn from.

    That’s the point with Kylo, he thinks he is being genuine and caring, when he is being manipulative thanks to the effects of his own abuser. Yes, a MAN was abused in this film. But that doesn’t make their romance right or even healthy.

    The film never preaches toxic masculinity. Ever. It has more depth than that.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---
    Big 1+ to this. The story of a “bad boy” realizing he is being manipulative and acting badly is also a very poweful story to tell. Something Ben redemption would do, and something these chumps could learn.
     
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  5. Powellfamily

    Powellfamily Clone

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    Yes, he’s fascinating. Even before he meets Rey, Kylo is competing with Hux for Snoke’s regard and he really treats Poe terribly when he finds out that Poe is the ace pilot of the Resistance, aka Leia’s Favorite. His interrogation of Rey is creepy in the same way at first. Conversational, casually cruel. Until he sees her loneliness and search for a father figure in Han.

    I think the interrogation scene is when the bond was formed. MY question on that is whether Rey closing the door is her learning how to cut the bond for good or was it just a temporary shield from him.
     
  6. Corn Cream

    Corn Cream Rebel General

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    At this point Rey is just the Star Wars hoe. First it was Finn, but people didn't like that, so then we get the Reylos, and on the back end, because of a book, and the end of the movie some are hoping it could be her and Poe. Disney dropped the ball on this one.

    At this point she is just damaged goods.
     
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  7. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Wow and people are calling Reylo abusive and misogynistic, then call Rey “damaged goods” and a “hoe” despite her turning down Kylo, being friends with Finn and saying hi to a man=romance. Also downplaying her self agency and worth as a human being.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---
    Agreed with TFA arc. Their dynamic in that film will never be “romantic” or healthy to me.
     
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  8. Blackcanary

    Blackcanary Clone Commander

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    She hasn't actually been in any romantic relationships onscreen. But I get the impression something like reality wasn't going to get in the way of your disgusting misogyny.
     
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  9. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Look, I get you're disappointed with Finn's storyline but seriously? That's disgusting.

    Absolutely cringey.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---
    I think her closing the door was less about the bond and more about how she feels about him right now. She's disappointed and upset and she's not going to be the one to reach out again. Any change will have to come from him.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017 ---
    I absolutely agree with a lot of what you're saying. Kylo Ren isn't just a proponent of toxic masculinity but also a direct victim of it. He has no way to verbalise or deal with all the pain in his life. He puts on the mask as a way to hide his less than "perfect masculinity". He like a million men before him have been abused and have been given no recourse, no chance to undo the damage it has caused.

    He's caught in the vicious cycle of abuse.

    He doesn't have the tools to understand his conflict and process it. He shows all the classic signs of being a victim of abuse- which he is. Lack of control, anger management issues, clinginess, fixation, etc.

    He's been manipulated from birth and abused endlessly by Snoke. And just like all the men before him, he's turned away by those he needs help from.

    It's really interesting to see how his character develops now that he's basically destroyed his abuser.

    Great points, though. :)
     
    #169 LilyInTheSkywalker, Dec 20, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
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  10. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    Don't feed the trolls. Ban them.
     
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  11. jaqua524

    jaqua524 Clone Commander

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    Hot and bothered?

    "Do you have something you can put on?"

    Lol, a normal reaction for anyone in thstat situation.
     
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  12. Sal

    Sal Clone Trooper

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    Yeah, I remember sniggering in that scene second time watching because as soon as he appeared my (gay female) friend (her first viewing) whispered "uh, put something on bro", and then Rey said it immediately after- it was funny to me because they literally said the exact same thing but with my friend it was clearly repulsion and awkwardness.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---
    Kylo destroyed his long term abuser- I wonder if Rey will get to defeat her short term abuser? (Kylo?)
     
  13. jaqua524

    jaqua524 Clone Commander

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    Maybe I am missunderstanding your post, but it comes off kind of sexist.

    Women have it tougher than men, no doubt. But this generation, for the most part "gets it". Media, like it does with race, plays up these social issues and slams them right into society by generalizing.

    That young men in the audience have a proxy towards women that need to be untaught is wrong. The message is an educational one to the generation as a whole.

    As far as women manipulating men into thinking they are the one and only, it happens. A lot. It just isn't discussed. I've experienced it. I know people who have experienced it. Being manipulative is more so a psychological defense to prevent abandonment, more so than it is biological. A VERY common trait of Borderline Personality Disorder which is underdiagnosed, and more found in women than men. Point being, ANYONE can be manipulative. ANYONE can be victimized.

    Again, this by no means undersells a clear message that needs to be sent about the struggles women face. But it is flat out wrong to generalize men in the way that you do. There are a lot of good men, both gen x and millenial than get it.

    In fact, it sucks. Cause looking at it from a theoretical sociopsychological perspective, your stance isn't necessarily helping the cause, despite the general sentiment to be true, and your intentions to be clear.

    I have said this for years..psychology and sociology should be basic subjects for children to learn, just as we learn math, history and science growing up. I'm lucky to have degrees in both.
     
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  14. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    Great post. And I agree completely. F*ck Double standards towards men and women.
     
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  15. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    This...your first line...please don't.
     
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  16. Powellfamily

    Powellfamily Clone

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    Holdo literally says ‘thank you for explaining that to me’ to Poe. I definitely think that the way Holdo is dressed and her purple hair immediately made him say out loud ‘not what I expected’. He’s used to Leia and her no-nonsense motherly style. The term to describe his behavior isn’t as important to me as his behavior.

    Kylo, again, LITERALLY, says to Luke that he will kill her. Does he say that because she has chosen the Jedi or that she’s chosen the Jedi over HIM.

    Yes, it’s a deconstruction of toxic masculinity. It shows how it can form. Kylo could have just run away from the temple if he was just scared of Luke in that moment. But he destroyed the temple and killed lots of people who didn’t do anything to him. What makes a young man do that? That is the question.
     
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  17. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    I'd agree except it's not a gendered issue. You forget that a female officer on her team helps disguise the fact that Rey and Finn are leaving, and later helps mutiny against her. "Not what I expected" and "thank you for explaining that to me" aren't man talking against women because she is a woman or women taking issue with him being a guy explaining things to her. It's a pilot that is out of line dissing a superior. Poe thinks he knows best, he would've said the same to Leia and he certainly doesn't look down on her because she's a woman.



    That a heat of the moment thing. A few minutes later he looks defeated and deflated. He wanted to kill both her and Luke and everyone in the rebellion regardless of Gender. It's not a "she's a woman and I hate her because she has a vgina" as you used POS domestic abuse killer examples in your original post.

    Again I'm not saying Kylo and Rey have a healthy dynamic or should have a romance. You're just exaggerating your points and making Rey seem like a defenceless woman (which she isn't) and Kylo like a woman hater or abuser with no backing except the gender one. He's a victim himself, it doesn't excuse him but he's treating Rey the way he was treated. That's why, not what's between her legs.


    As Lily Skywalker has said, Snoke had been whispering dark side things to him for years and influencing him. Luke's betrayal was the straw that broke the camels back for him, and maybe his act echoed throughout the force and he had to defend himself from people attacking him due to Luke's attack. We can't know, but it's inferred some sided with him and some didn't.
     
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    If you didn't see the connotations of that, why he had his top off in the first place and why she commented, then you need to study up on filmmaking.
     
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  19. LilyInTheSkywalker

    LilyInTheSkywalker Rebel Official

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    Everything about this.

    This is why I have SUCH a problem with people calling out Kylo's actions as "sexist"

    He's an absolute dumbass, to be sure. He's moody and cutting and unpredictable. But nothing he says to Rey is because she's a girl. He's classist as hell- "You, a scavenger", but sexist? Not at all.

    He respects the crap out of her abilities. And fears it.

    He says he'll destroy her and literally one scene later he has the chance to do just that. He has troops waiting outside, it would take him ONE command to have them shoot the Millenium Falcon (with her in it) out of the sky but he doesn't. He lets her go.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 20, 2017 ---
    His half-naked, stacked torso was presented oiled up in soft, diffused lighting because SHE'S CLEARLY SUPPOSED TO SHOW DISGUST. Look at the way she stutters.

    So grossed out.
     
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  20. Withred

    Withred Rebel Official

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    And Kylo being compared to domestic killers just annoys me. What the hell.

    He also thinks he's being good to her. Offering unconditional power, none of Snoke's "kill ur father and do dark side murder lol" commands.

    He's messed up, and isn't exactly morally esquisite, but he's not abuse killer red pill dudebro.

    He looks regretful as heck, and looks at her knowing he's messed up, in their final glance.
     
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