THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Give it a shot, it's worth a try. But that sentence in itself is pretty heartbreaking given that SW has been a huge part of my life for as long as I can remember, just like everybody here. Imagine trying to like a movie. I can't think of any other circumstance where I'd intentionally try to like something.

 

What's my point? I think I made it pretty clear. Someone had the opinion that Johnson was a bad writer, @DailyPlunge decided to chastise that person with passing their opinion off as fact that Johnson is a proven talent. I chimed in that making three movies, with only one of which could be considered even close to a success, doesn't make a proven talent. Than you chimed in... Do I have to lay out the details more?

Proven talents are Abrams, Ron Howard, Spielberg, etc etc etc. That to me is a proven talent, someone that can and has delivered on multiple occasions. Not just making three indie films, two of which most people have never heard of. I think the best way to describe Johnson, prior to TLJ, was an up and coming talent, not a proven talent.

You have laid out a more complete thought on your opinion other than your first post which was basically he's a proven talent because he got Star Wars. I might not agree with you on that what you laid out that makes him a proven talent, but at least you made more of an attempt to explain yourself rather than the idea of he is because he is.

Again, like I said in my earlier response to you, pointing to the fact that Kennedy gave him the job as being the prime example of him being a "proven talent" is not a good example because Kennedy's track record with hiring writers and directors is not exactly a good thing to point to.

My opinion has nothing to do with whether or not I liked TLJ. In fact, I just put Abrams in the proven talent category, even though TFA is my least liked Star Wars movie. I think my point was pretty clear.

I also never said Johnson wasn't talented.

Please don't presume that I forget anything.

as for your post, agree to disagree...

 

Well people I broke down and watched Last Jedi to see if it is better watching at home. Against all odds I actually found I liked this movie.....less now. Thanks Rian.

Spoiler

 

OF COURSE you can be a defender of something, and also be a fan of it. That's exactly what I've been saying.

This all started when I disagreed with a forum user saying either you're a fan, OR you're a defender. That generalization and all-or-nothing opinion is what I was debating AGAINST.



*sigh*

 

The person called Rian Johnson a "hack." That's hyperbole plain and simple. It's an exaggeration. Obviously you disagree, but no one is being chastised.

Why does this take you out of the movie? Language like this had been used before in Star Wars.

 

Yeah but Luke wasn't exactly the same in this one, so it matters for that reason, god damn it!

I always laugh at complaints about language used. They live a long time ago in a GFFA...and yet speak English. You're problem shouldn't start with "she said Godspeed in The Last Jedi"! It should start with "Did you hear that..." in A New Hope.

 

Calling someone a hack i.e. bad writer is an opinion and no more an exaggeration than someone calling him a great writer. Do you chastise people that call Johnson a great writer too? Do you proclaim that they are dealing in hyperbole as well? Can you point me to some posts where you do? I have seen plenty of people that have defended Johnson as doing a great job, I don't ever remember you charging in on the Hyperbole stallion.

What is clear is that you didn't like the persons opinion that called Johnson a bad writer, so you decided to try and lecture them. Instead of just saying you think he's a good writer or a decent writer or whatever level writer you think he is, and giving examples as to why you think the way you think, you decided to go the route of "my opinion is better than yours, because your opinion is wrong via hyperbole".

Here is what you said, just as a refresher:

Again, you don't agree with the person that says Johnson is a bad writer, than explain your position as to why you disagree, instead of just saying they are wrong, because you say they are.

 

You can keep repeating that you disagree and it's not going to change the definition of hyperbole. No one is being chastised, but you do seem to be upset. I admire your passion though, so thanks for sharing.

No sense in keeping this "I disagree, you're wrong" circle going.

I'm not sure I understand why you're asking me this question. This must have gotten lost in translation. I'm not going to convince you to like something you don't like.

 

Luke making a momentary error in reacting to what was in Kylo's head, sending himself into exile and cutting himself off from the Force because of this error and his view of the Jedi - and then remaining there until he had no option but to sacrifice himself through an amazing act of Force wizardry.

In one swoop, he managed to explain why Luke was on the island, didn't come to Han's rescue (or anyone else's), didn't want to return to the fight (thus not taking away Rey's agency) and then (with Yoda's help) decide what the right thing to do was and go out in a blaze of glory.

I spent two years trying to come up with a way of doing all this and had settled on Luke being "Force drained". It was silly and wouldn't have worked. RJ's story for Luke was very clever and showed his writing prowess in terms of understanding character, story and mythology.

 

These are the Top Comments from one of Star Wars' ads on Facebook.. Cracks me up... So glad I'm not the only one.

 

I'm not trying to change the definition of Hyperbole. It seems it's your favorite word to use when you want to chastise/lecture someone on their opinion. As I said, calling Johnson a hack is no more an exaggeration than calling him a great writer. Yet you are using other posters "hyperbole" as a means to defend Johnson. Yet engage in it yourself (saying I am trying to change the definition of a word as just one example).

So again, you lecture, and tell people they are hurting their stance because they engage in Hyperbole, yet you engage in it yourself. I wonder if you understand what the word really means seeing how much you use it yourself.

I'm sure you would like to stop the circle, cause I am sure you don't like being called out on the BS of telling other people that their opinions are irrelevant because of Hyperbole.

 

Evil is quicker, easier and more seductive. Look at the comments of anything on any website and you'll see this is not out of the ordinary.

 

See, I totally respect criticism of the movie, and I have my own issues with it.

But stuff like that top comment baffles me. Why do people feel the need to be a raging jerk about stuff like this? I can't imagine spending the time and energy that some people do for something I supposedly hate (casually glances down at 116 pages of this thread).

 

It's not that much different than what some are attempting to do in here. People are not word scholars. They explain the best they can, and if you continue to come at them, then the language is going to get worse. Period.

 

I agree with you to an extent. Let's not forget though that TLJ is still only a few months old, so people still feel the need to vent. There's very little in TFA that I like, but, I am not in the TFA section pissing and moaning about it. I made my peace with what it was, and have moved on, as most people have. As time goes on, I (and I expect most others) will move on. Now if we could just get people to move on from bashing the Prequels. I mean we still see that even in these threads here in the TLJ section.

So it is what it is, people will vent, and the growth of threads like this will get stunted, as only those hard core haters will want to carry on the fire, than, I will agree with you that people need to move on.

Edit: btw, i am not condoning the "you're not a real fan" crap like in the pic provided. I don't think that's venting nor was I trying to defend it. I am more talking about the 116 pages of this thread.

 

That's fair. And I'm not meaning to ridicule the discussion that's been going on here- I just think it's interesting that a thread specifically designed for hating the movie has gotten so much traction (no doubt in part because of incursions of fans of the film).

I'm sure you're right, and cooler heads will eventually prevail. I don't expect everyone to totally change their mind about the film on subsequent viewings, but I think people will definitely "come to peace" with it.

I don't know, I think I can hold people to a standard higher than this.

 

Ok.

I guess we won't go to the theater together then ...

No offense.

 

People are angry and frustrated. I am one of them. I gladly support these comments and hope that they somehow make an impact that will change the direction of future movies and keep them from going down a similar path. I really, really don't like TLJ.