THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

If they cancel RJ's trilogy, it'll be because he was too talented and the powers that be didn't want to make a SW movie that was too good and could not be lived up to lol.

 

Even if Disney wanted to get rid of Kennedy (which is absurd). It would be a PR disaster to do it right now. They'd just wait until after Episode IX. It's bizarre to me that people pay attention to these hacks on YouTube. She just makes stuff up.



It is interesting the Kennedy's husband liked this tweet:

Maybe it's a mistake. Maybe not.

 

Okay Grace caught my eye as I was scrolling so I have to respond to this. But, it's funny that she brings up something I also brought up in another thread maybe a week ago? And that is the question of, who would possibly want Kathy Kennedy's job? My reasoning for this question wasn't the same as Grace's. It was the opposite in fact. But it was a serious question of, who would possibly want to replace Kathy Kennedy as head of this franchise? It's funny that she's echoing that exact thing is becoming a problem.

But, I watched this video and she is just so, pushing, isn't she? She's so, trying so hard to, motivate and get this group of people moving as one in this specific direction. There's a part of me that's looking at all of the moving pieces and smiling and thinking, "Clever girls!"

 

If I may jump in and answer your question, but (obviously) speaking only for myself: The reason why I spend a lot of time writing about a movie I strongly dislike is because it is a part of a saga which I still love overall and will continue to follow. I still hold out hope - perhaps foolishly - that the ship will be righted. I identify things I see as problems and discuss possible solutions. If it was a franchise I didn't care about, I wouldn't be here. For example, I didn't like Justice League but you won't see me going to DC forums to discuss it because I really don't care too much about the DCCU. I just shrugged my shoulders and moved on. Star Wars, on the other hand, is a franchise I have loved all my life and it will take more than 1 atrocious movie to change that.

Now that I have addressed your curiosity, I ask you to please address mine: I'm curious as to why someone who enjoyed the movie would spend so much time in a thread called "THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE". Are you that insecure in your enjoyment that you have to deliberately seek out arguments? (Please note I am not saying you should not be allowed in this thread, I am just curious as to your motivation for being in here in the first place when clearly you do not share the opinion of the very purpose this thread exists).

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2018 ---

Comments like this crack me up. You're still here... participating in the same arguments.... so maybe you can't let go either?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2018 ---

That is a completely illogical conclusion.

Based on the pattern of your previous posts, I now anticipate you telling us all how when multiple people use the same criticism, they are all copying each other.... but, of course, when multiple people have the same praise, well then those are all intelligent, free thinking individuals who came up with those praises completely independent of one another!!

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2018 ---

I cannot overemphasize how correct the above is... I am already prepared for it....

"No way Kennedy is getting forced out!!"
Months later: "She's leaving of her own desire to move on!!"

 

Yes, of course! If Kennedy goes then there will for sure be no RJ trilogy. I already have serious doubts about him doing one more SW movie, much less 3.

Anything is possible, and I'm sure that Disney is keeping a tight lid on what's really going on behind the scenes. I do find some of this news that's been breaking over the last couple of weeks odd. "All the SW spinoffs are on hold because of Solo's poor box office... no wait, they're not. Well... some of them are, maybe Obi Wan, maybe not..." It makes me wonder what is really going on behind the scenes. As for Grace Randolph, while I don't know that much about her, she seems to have a long history and a large following and I don't think it's a stretch that she would have legit connections in Hollywood. I'm not sure she would make up a lie of this magnitude just for clicks? Time will tell.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2018 ---

I have no idea who would want KK's job, but I'm guessing that if there's any truth to this report that Disney/Iger already has someone tapped to take over. They're not just going to fire her, oops, accept her retirement, without someone ready to step in.

 

Careful, I got a troll rating from @Pomojema and I'm afraid you might get the same for agreeing with me lol. He must have thought that in this thread we'd be praising everyone and the direction that SW is being taken.

 

Taking the heat ? What heat ? It was a triumph.

 

Um, it's the thread for those who hated the movie. Is this fact lost on them or did something get lost in translation?

And a masterpiece, don't forget that!

 

She's a hack.

I'm curious why people think the only reason RJ got a trilogy is because KK is forcing it and he's tied to her? Iger has final approval on all this stuff. He approves the final pitch for the stories.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 26, 2018 ---

Fair question. I actually haven't been in this thread for several months. I enjoy talking about a film I love. Some people in this thread are reasonable and those who aren't I just ignore.

 

Drew McWeeny? Who is he and does he also supposedly have insider info too? Regardless, anyone can say they have info and anyone can scream liar. Either there will be changes at Lucasfilm or there won't. We'll just have to wait for any real, official news.

As for RJ, I would think that if (and this is all speculative from the rumors) KK ends up gone from Lucasfilm that Disney/Iger would probably put the brakes on or at least delay anymore projects. Again, all speculation on things that may happen, or may not.

 

Not directed at me, but I wouldn’t mind sharing my answer. Because this is a forum - a place for all of us to have discussion and exchange perspectives on a common interest. If you see a post you’d like to engage with, regardless of the thread, you shouldn’t have to justify it. That’s my understanding of why the Cantina exists.

That being said, if people want to commiserate over their shared disappointment in a movie, and focus on a particular thread to do it, they shouldn’t have to justify that either. I really don’t understand why anyone would take issue with that. That’s only my point of view though.

 

^Underrated post.

 

For TLJ loyalists (a term I'm going to use to represent fringe ideology not necessarily someone who just liked the film), it's usually attempts at silencing, shaming, and tone policing to keep criticism at bay...

...and it doesn't work. The are valid criticisms of the movie and there are valid criticisms of the criticisms of the movie. There are valid reasons to praise the movie, and valid criticisms of some of the praise attributed to TLJ. People just have to be reasonable in their analysis.

 

Great post and my question wasn't about justifying it. I was just curious and I'm still curious what's driving the relentless negativity we see all over the internet about this film. Yeah, people have legitimate concerns, but they're not really out there screaming and yelling about it. It's possible to dislike TLJ and not quit the series. I'm sure there's going to be Star Wars stuff I don't like in the future.

There are a few people in this forum that almost seem to be rooting for Star Wars to fail. Fortunately, the mods have started cracking down on that stuff which is part of the reason I came back to this thread. Things are a little less hyperbolic now.

 

If/when it happens, it will take quite a long time - perhaps even more than a year. It is not like we are going to wake up one morning and read the banner headlines "Kennedy Fired!" and that's that. What happens is they select her successor (a process which could easily take months). Then the successor starts working alongside her and starts to take over the decision making process. Then the successor transitions into the role full time.

I believe that right now the long term plan after E9 is on hold because the person who will be making the post-E9 decisions isn't in place yet. They may possibly also be committed to one more Star Wars story (Kenobi?) but I really wouldn't bet on anything beyond that like the supposed RJ trilogy.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 27, 2018 ---

Yes I understand you enjoy talking about a film you love, but why come into this specific thread which was started for the very purpose of allowing people to talk about how much they hated it?

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 27, 2018 ---

Yeah that occurred to me too. I am not saying I am buying everything Grace Randolph is selling, but how in the world does a tweet from "DrewMcWeeny" discredit her???

There will be no RJ trilogy - at least not in the form of him being the showrunner/writer/director of it. He may, at best, get an Executive Producer credit (which often means nada).

 

If they fire KK it'll be after 9. They're not going to go into shooting/production of 9 with no president at the helm. That's a PR nightmare waiting to happen; especially with the drama regarding Solo. That's a lot of confidence for not even a hint of speculation regarding his trilogy getting canned. This is more less a unhappy fan talking. About the only thing we know for certain is that the standalones are on hold, RJ's trilogy and GOT's films are still moving forward.

 

I mean to address your claims before your definition you mentioned what the concept was based on, listed some of Rey's failures and compared her to Luke.
These ones ↓

I don't mean to introduce ambiguity to move the goalposts.
I only mean challenge your sweeping generalizations and assumptions about the definitions and motivations of others.

Nah.
My only qualm is your dismissing others without allowing for the possibility of them using different definitions and criteria for their use of the terms.

Fair enough.

Fair enough again.
Those comments weren't meant as a personal criticism but to provide some context on the thread for a newer member.
There has been some history!

Maybe they don't share any of the criticisms you provided.
Maybe they're just tired of having the same conversations or always defending themselves.
People tend to provide their own criticisms here instead of presenting easy targets just to shoot them down themselves!
(That was a cheap shot - I enjoyed your original post and I think there is some following going on for sure. )

Yeah man, people really care about SW.
It cops more hate than most.

It probably is man.
And we could probably cherry pick the Mary Sue traits that suit whatever argument all day.

But pointing to instances that aren't called out doesn't invalidate the claim.
Again my point isn't to claim Rey is a Mary Sue or that Luke Skywalker or John Wick isn't.

And it isn't to dis-count this current climate big on identifying with the goods we consume, reveling in the contemplation of images, devouring stories for distraction, dwelling in echo chambers, bandwagoning, confirming biases, clinging to petty tribalism and toxic partisanship, hating to love and loving to hate.

My point was only to defend those I thought you may have demonized unfairly.
I still claim that not everybody using Mary Sue does so from a disingenuous or untenable position.

Anyways, there's always more to know and you wanted discussion!
If one wants to understand the great mysteries one must acknowledge all the aspects and not just the dogmatic, narrow view of their own opinion.

tl:dr


edit:grammar

 

So, back to topic: I have a complaint regarding Luke's Jedi Books.

I don't know if anyone's brought this up yet, but WHY are the ancient secrets of the Jedi Order scribbled on the pages of books? WHY? Holocrons exist. They're the oldest resource of Jedi knowledge in the galaxy, and on top of being the trademark means of storing knowledge, they require the Force to open. They literally have a supernatural parameter to prevent random people from just cracking them open and absorbing all of the knowledge without having earned it. Why on EARTH would any order of Jedi use commonplace, paperbound books that ANYONE can open to store their oldest secrets when Holocrons exist? And before anyone tries to rebut with the following:

-Holocrons are an EU concept! They aren't canon!

Wrong. Clone Wars had them, and more importantly, Rebels had them as well. They're an established part of canon and still were back in 2014 when Rian Johnson was penning this drivel, so it's not like anyone in the Lucasfilm Story Group couldn't have reminded him about this (unless they did, and he simply hand-waved it in favor of using the books).

-Maybe the books are from a time when technology isn't around, so these are the precursors to Holocrons.

This is the most nonsensical excuse I hear. The whole point about Holocrons is that they're ancient, baffling, inaccessible technology to laymen. They're the Rosetta Stones of the Star Wars galaxy...there isn't anything older than them. And even if, for whatever reason, there does exist an era of Star Wars history where technology was so primitive that books with actual pages was the preferred method of archiving, why wouldn't the Jedi Order just move the existing knowledge to Holocrons and just destroy the books? Why would they allow a resource that could give anyone random human or alien access to ancient Force secrets in an easily-accessible format as a book? That's literally setting yourself up for some Sith acolyte to steal them. That's willing idiocy right there.

 

Hi new to the forum. I'm well an truly in the hate TLJ camp, I created an account just to share this interview. What was RJ thinking. Sry if it's an old link. There's a lot of pages to trawl through. http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/st...-cast-mark-hamill-luke-skywalker-personality/

 

There could be many explanations. It could have been transcribed from a Holocron to books by a Jedi to the benefit of scholars. It could have been written by a Sith who accessed a Holocron. It could have been transcribed from a Force sensitive, non Jedi, non Sith, who may have or may not have been a scholar (could have been a scoundrel, thief, smuggler, tomb raider ect...). Maybe it predates the tech of Holocrons. Maybe Holocrons are tech that were discovered with the tech of Hyperdrives, thus alien, but the books are texts that humans or aliens figured out before Hyperdrive tech was discovered? There could be many explanations, any of which could make for an interesting side story in and of itself.

I get where you're coming from, that RJ isn't as knowledgeable as some of the big time fans (you included). I'm not even going to deny that this might be true, but in the end, the miss is much more minor and easier to explain than "parsecs" in ANH. He might (though I highly doubt it) have an explanation drawn in a margin of the original script, but it isn't even necessary. As I stated, there could be any number of explanations, some reasonable, some fantastic.