THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

I appreciate the responses, but there really hasn't been a clear answer. The reason I ask is reinforced by this statement...

This is a huge mischaracterization that myself and many others have corrected over and over in this thread and throughout this forum. Those statements are quite clearly directed towards the toxic fanbase that is harassing the creative team with hate and bigotry every single day.

A person who isn't a racist/bigot/jerk online who just doesn't like the film shouldn't be bother by Rian Johnson or other people calling out this part of toxic fandom. A few people here have voiced concerned about being unfairly lumped in with the toxic minority. I understand that sentiment 100%. I have never lumped the two groups together. Hate the film all you want. However, Rian Johnson, Kennedy, JJ haven't attacked fans who simply don't like the film.

@Darth Wardawg, I apologize if I've offended you in some way. That wasn't my intention. Let's keep the discussion off each other. If you don't like my questions you can ignore them if you wish.

 

I think what ticked me off is that you accused me of not thinking for myself. I responded to that and you ignored that. I think an apology for basically calling me an idiot is what I was expecting.

What many of us expect of Rian, et.al. is for them to act like Ron Howard. Personally I think RJ is a good director of actors, but a piss poor writer, at least when it comes to VIII. His lack of understanding of the IP that is Star Wars, his apparent lack of care for the mythology of the franchise that had been built up over decades is breathtaking and not in a positive sense.

Anyway, if I was attacking you personally I apologize. Today was a crappy day and that last post towards you was a reflection of that.

 

And as I myself and many others have corrected over and over in this thread and throughout this forum, they don't get to have it both ways.

What color is the sky on your world? I honestly don't think you've ever even read the "manbabies" exchange. There is nothing in the "manbabies" comment that indicated it was geared towards racists/sexists/bigtos or "toxic fandom" in any way (except by those like Ryan Johnson who define "toxic fandom" as anyone with any criticism of the movie). Someone was writing how they didn't like the Mary Poppins scene and then how horrible the movie was overall. Geek Girl Diva responded with her usual amount of unprofessionalism. Then Ryan Johnson came in with his "don't feed the manbabies" comment. It seems to me an awful lot of these people can dish out the snark and insults but sure can't take 'em.

Your problem is you say they only direct "manbabies" type of comments towards people being racists/sexists/jerks online - and then you define "jerk" as anyone who publicly criticizes the movie.

 

This is simply not true. It was quite clear who it was directed to and he even went on to make it clearer. This person has been sending messages like this to RJ for months. This isn't a reasonable critic of the film.

There's a big difference between reasonable critsism and online harassment. I never defined jerk in this context you describe. That's a clear misrepresentation of my argument which is simple: No one from Lucasfilm is attacking fans who are reasonably criticizing the film.

 

If we were supposed to do online harrassment, believe me that some of you guys would have received some really salty personnal messages.

Did it happen ? Nah. It didn't.

We aren't the toxic fanbase so stop acting like if we were, it is becoming more and more insulting every day.

 

Fair enough.
'Nuff said.

Not “would absolutely”..."could".
It could also drive you to deeper into the bottle...or to suicide - it happens.
Your example could illustrate nicely why Luke cut himself off from The Force after failing Ben though.

I wouldn't describe 30 years later under extreme circumstances as stumbling straight back into it but that's me!
But how do you know Luke never worked on his weaknesses?
I agree...

... and that we shouldn't need head-canon to make movies work.
I guess we just differ in whether we see enough info in TLJ to buy into it.
Each to their own.

Maybe instinct and weakness isn't something you can just grow out of?
We know those who knew best worried he was too old to begin training and warned the dark side can dominate destiny.
Perhaps this is the danger manifest?

Because it's his greatest weakness and ratchets up the most drama?
I don't see it as the exact same - same but different.
It's a major theme I read in the Skywalker saga as cycles - the same but different.

Nah. (See above response ↑.)

I wouldn't assume the past would force him to avoid those mistakes.
Often traumatic experiences result in repetition (state-dependent recall) and being aware of how we messed up in the past often doesn't help.
Curiously, feeling like a failure, while making you feel really guilty, in some studies encouraged people to repeat mistakes more!
Not saying your wrong, just that I wouldn't be so absolute in my assumptions of what the character would do.

???
Then reply/quote those people not me!
Don't associate me with such ridiculous claims as one group being more knowledgeable about filmmaking than another - sheesh.

 

I'd send you a PM to clear up this misunderstanding, but you remove yourself every time I send you a message. Where did someone insinuate that anyone here is toxic? My discussion is about Lucasfilm and how they haven't attacked reasonable fans. This isn't about you.

 

I didn't receive any mp from you. Sorry. I'm not hiding.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---

I had a lunch with friends today and saturday, we spoke about the movie. I explained them why it was terrible ( thank the Maker we had no barreer language ) and you now have new haters on board.

One friend told me that in the casino, aliens were dressed like humans ( black suit / tie ) and I did agree with him that it was too much Earth like and that in a GFFA the clothing standards shouldn't be the same that in Monte Carlo.

 

well done. that's a great piece of news to bring to a Star Wars fan site.

to mods & staff.. is this venting?
pages and pages of endless bickering and now this.

 

There’s nothing blind about my optimism. I’m fully cognizant of my misgivings and have pronounced them plenty of times here on this forum. I simply don’t allow them to color my temperament. Y’know? Seeing the glass as half-full? Finding the silver lining? Making lemonade from lemons? All those simplistic saccharine expressions (I sincerely hope) your parents (or some equivalent authority figure) attempted to impart to you at some point during your formative years? It’s about finding the best in every situation and making the most of what you’ve been given.

If I (for example) have exciting plans to do something fun outside and then it ends up raining all day, I don’t sit inside sulking about it. However hard I stomp my feet, however loud I scream into the void - the rain will keep falling. The universe doesn’t care that I’m disappointed. I don’t get a choice in that, but I do get to choose how I react to it. I make adversity work FOR me, not AGAINST me - adapt and overcome.

I’m willing to accept these sequel movies for what they are. I salvage what elements I feel have value to me, and I toss away the things that don’t. There’s only positivity for me here, no negative. I did the same thing with the prequels. I think those films are truly atrocious. I get zero enjoyment from watching them, but there’s a treasure trove of things in there I’ve found to genuinely love in spite of that and it took me a good long while to get there. I take the bad with the good and focus solely on the good. I’m a pragmatist and that’s what makes the most logical sense to me.

Indeed. However, voicing hatred, anger, disdain, and personal resentment is not the same as simple ‘criticism’. I can’t speak for anyone else, but if there was anything in my life that brought me as much misery as the current iteration of this property seems to be bringing you, I’d cut it loose. I’d walk away and never look back. I have no interest in that type of toxicity. But that’s me.

The only power you have as a consumer is to not consume. To literally sit idly by. So . . . don’t. Don’t give them your money. Wipe your hands of it, live your life, and check back in later. Being upset about it only hurts you, not them.

I’m not defending LFL’s present regime or the direction they’re taking. I’m not telling you how to feel about it. I’m just offering an alternate perspective. One that maybe doesn’t lead to needless personal suffering. It’s from a place of concern, not judgement.

 

They won't come here. Be quiet ...

It's just that when you discuss this with people living in the real world, they gotta admit that the criticism is legit.

 

We've explained this time and time again. I had an extended conversation with @Bandini about this very topic last week, in fact, and I was under the impression we'd come to an understanding about the fallacy of this complaint.

I guess people just want to be the victim. Seems intellectually dishonest, to me.

 

Once again ... You're saying that I'm bad people.

The same old song.

Why are you talking about toxic fanbase right here if there isn't toxic fans here ? Just tell me why ??

 

Friend, I'm quite literally saying the exact opposite of that. We discussed this last week.

If we say "some toxic fans are bullying KMT" and you automatically associate yourself with that group, that's your prerogative. But literally no one is equating disliking the film with that toxicity.

This is a simple concept, and I'm quite done explaining it. If you want to have an honest discussion on it, we can do so elsewhere, but there's no reason to senselessly hash this out again.

 

It sure seems reasonable to me.

Like I said.... you say the LFL employees only insult the "toxic fandom".... then you go on to define "toxic fandom" as anyone who didn't like the movie and publicly voices their complaints.

You'd think Rian Johnson, of all people, would be a bit more understanding. After all, his stated goal is to create movies that half the people who see them dislike.

 

Ok, maybe I can't speak for @DailyPlunge, but this is where I see the big gap in logic. When did this happen?

For the record, I totally disagree with that sentiment. But I also haven't seen it yet. At least not that broadly. I mean, there's a difference between my friend back home who said he disliked the film when I asked him, and people who send death threats to RJ on Twitter, obviously. But I'd argue that people who go on daily tirades about their dislike of the film flirt with toxicity as well, at this point.

 

Everybody agreed that it is terrible behaviour so why are we still talking about it while for once, it's a shared consensus ?

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2018 ---

Whataboutism ...

 

Great! So let's agree that those toxic people were wrong, there's no need to make yourself the victim here, and you can continue critiquing the film in peace.

Cheers.

 

[

It hasn't happened. I'm bending over backwards to explain the difference over and over. Then we explain that Kennedy and Rian Johnson aren't attacking people with reasonable opinions. There examples provided are clearly directed at trolls.

I'm just gonna have to ignore people who continue to misrepresent my statements. It's not a civil way to discuss a topic. If you feel like I'm ignoring you just PM me. Also, using a quote by Rian Johnson from fifteen years ago and attempting to apply it The Last Jedi is silly.

I'm glad you asked this question so I can reinforce what started this current discussion.

The claim that Kennedy and Johnson are attacking fans with reasonable complains doesn't have merit. I have asked for examples, but I haven't received one that proves that claim. They're simply making comments about people with "terrible behavior." @Bandini you aren't part of the group they're addressing.

 

because this thread has no topic.

people end up arguing about all sorts of crap... accusing one another of all sorts of crap... seeing insults that aren't even there.
there are no rules.. they are talking about toxic fans right now, which you have taken to mean that they mean you because it's in this thread. i don't think they are calling you toxic bro.

saying that you were actively convincing people to hate TLJ.. i reacted badly when i read it. it's not a nice thing to read on a site like this mate.. can you see that? do any of you really want to turn people away from Star Wars because of a movie you personally don't like? please please say no to that.

what the hell am i doing posting in here again anyway? i was out... who pulled me back in ?