THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Excuse me? What does grumpy Luke have to do with this sassy gif?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2018 ---

Like I said, there was no need for it. Just having Luke emerge from the dust unscratched was enough to make Kylo look like a joke who just wasted the First Order's fir power.

The joke is silly and makes it look like a parody of Star Wars ala Spaceballs - just like so much else in the movie.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2018 ---

Then perhaps you shouldn't be so quick at jumping to conclusions.

 

If I was doing the scene, I would have had Luke stick up his middle finger...just for the haters.

 

Ahhh... the "haters gonna hate" thing. Lovely! The epitome of millennial culture.

That would have been a great gif too. Gifs rule. Lol.

 

Came across this interesting piece on the symbolism of Star Wars and in TLJ by an iconographer and artist/carver. Now, I don't agree with everything here, but I found it very interesting and it really made me think about Star Wars (especially the depiction of the Empire in the OT).

Key points covered in the 20 minute video are:

1. Inherent problem of the symbolism in Star Wars in that the Dark Side is represented by a hyper-ordered techno-bureaucratic state.
2. The representation of the Dark Side, in the political sphere, is an inversion of the Dark Side in being a kind of hyper-order.
3. ROTJ resolves the inversion. But, TFA and TLJ repeat it and radicalize it. TFA is a fetishism of ANH.
4. Rey is a near perfect hero for the Millenial generation.
5. The older movies were about freedom from tyranny. These new ones are about safety from oppression. Masculine heroism is marginalised.
6. The contrast of Luke's journey to see himself and Rey's journey to see herself. One must overcome himself, the other is already realised.
7. Hux and Kylo are caricatures of competence and authority.

It's a different take on the usual on the problems within TLJ and well worth a watch:

 

Governor Calrissian I saw that video too, and I was thinking about posting it here eventually.

The best point the video makes is definitely about the millennial snowflake aspect of the film, and why it resonates so well with this group of people.

 

Just FYI, and I know you don’t get the scene, but everything Luke did was to get under Kylos skin. That entire scene from the flick of the shoulder to “see you around kid” was meant to provoke and get under Kylos skin. Using the blue lightsaber was on purpose. Talking about Han. Even leaving the dice behind. All done to make Kylo screw up. To make him look bad. And to haunt his soul.

 

I understand more about the movie than you think. The point is that, just because I understand what they were going for, doesn't mean I think the movie is good or that it was well executed.

Just a headsup for the next time you choose to insult someone for not "understanding something".

 

Ironically, that's one of the parts that I don't agree with. I'm not an American, and I'm usually skeptical about narratives like millenial snowflake and SJWs! For one thing, it's too much of a generalisation. But, I did like his explanation of why Rey is an ideal hero for the new (young) generation - it did have a certain resonance; even if, I am not convinced by it. It's a bit of a feel-good answer to me and that makes me a little wary of accepting it - if that makes any sense.

I really liked his views on the symbolism of light/dark and order/chaos, though. Quite thought provoking. And his reading of Luke's encounter with himself in ESB and Rey's in TLJ. That, to me, makes sense both in terms of the scenes and in their respective depictions in the OT and ST (and why Luke is a great character).

 

I meant in the aspect of Rey, of course. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough. I'm not an American either, but I don't see why that should be out of the point. In Sweden, where I've lived most of my life, there is a great share of SJW's - we just have different names for them.

 

I am about as anti safe space, anti entitlement millennial as you can get. It’s amazing how people can project their bias onto films. Over in the Finn thread, they see is racism. Remember what Yoda said about the cave on Dagobah?

So if someone asks, “what is The Last Jedi’s message?” My answer...“only what you take with you”.

 

OK. However, "haters gonna hate" is definitely a thing used by that generation. I would never use it myself, because I don't like to vicitimize.

 

So this just didn’t play well for you. Got it. And you think it was written so people could make gifs of it, got it.
Probably like these.

 

The scenes from those gifs were hardly made with the intention of being funny. Alas, I think you've missed the point I was trying to make.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2018 ---

 

I think "Hello there" has become a meme because of the fans themselves. GL put it there just to make it rhyme with Kenobi's "Hello there" from ANH.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2018 ---

Keep shifting those goalposts, Vos.

 

Those are all very vague comparisons. It simply shows how little you understand the criticism of the jokes in this film, and why so many people are pissed about it. It's hilarious how far people will go to defend this film. The weird "fourth-wall-breaking" and "Spaceballs"-esque humor has been brought up by sooooo many people.

Keep trying to think you're being smart or funny.

 

Your point was that Luke brushing off his shoulder was unnecessary and used as a nod and a wink to the audience. That is exactly why Kenobi delivers the two lines above. Where as, there is a good reason for Luke doing what he does.

And you've used the Spaceballs line about a dozen times now and it isn't getting anymore funny or clever.

 

And it is unnecessary, you simply chose to neglect all the points I've made. It doesn't make sense and takes you out of the movie. It's close to fourth wall breaking, since its so far away from the First Order's point of view. There was really no reason to put it there other than to make a laugh.

When you and others defended it by saying "it shows Luke's superiority" I explained that it wasn't needed. Having Luke emerge from the dust unscratched was enough to show his superiority. Alas, the joke exists solely for a joke, just like so much else in the movie. That was the argument I made. That's what others have said about the humor in this film as well. That is what you're choosing to ignore - and defend blindly.

Obi-Wan's "Hello there" was a callback to ANH. Plus Grievous was right there and could see him, right in front of him.

Why not? You're choosing to ignore and skew the discussion to your favor by switching topics. Maybe repeated information is the only way to have a logical debate with you.

 

No. You're the one ignoring the points. You're just simply harking on about it being unnecessary. "We're" saying that he does it to mock Kylo Ren. Simply walking out of the blasts would look powerful. Dusting off his shoulder shows he mocks Ren and the FO. The fact that we laugh puts us in the position of those watching Luke in-universe. It makes the FO and Ren feel small and humiliated. And it lifts those on the side of the light.

It wasn't just for superiority though - it was to mock. See above. All the humour in this film has a point. The only bit I didn't like was when Snoke hit Rey on the head with the saber. But even that had a point.

And the callback being there for humour purposes. "Ah-ha, he said that in ANH!". And it was unnecessary. You also conveniently skipped his line about the blasters being uncivilised, which he says to himself, unnecessarily.

Because it is simply false. You're just desperately trying to make out that TLJ is a parody film like Spaceballs when it clearly isn't. It has humour in it - yes. But the humour links to the story and plot. And there is nothing wrong with using humour in a Star Wars film rather than being serious all the time. See: the OT.