Thread for those who loved the movie

Score, cinematography, pacing (for a Star Wars movie, it's pretty brisk), Luke's arc (whether you agree with the decision or not, it's an incredibly well written and well directed story...as in, if this were generic Old Teacher A and Young Student B this would be a fantastic story). I also am inclined to think that the story itself as a whole is objectively good, the execution as a whole can be up for debate.

 

ok, i can mostly agree with those but luke's "arc" is pretty non-existant in ST and if you consider the whole arc from ANH to TLJ, i wouldn't say it's well written. i think the character changes too drastically.

 

Most of the shots in this film look like paintings. I don't think people really can argue cinematography, nor do they want to argue score. I see a lot of people call out the pacing as an issue but that comes down to subjectivity. If you don't like Canto Bight, you're going to think that the pacing slows down in the middle of the film.

 

Like it does in ANH. And TESB. And TFA. And RO... This seems to be a common thing across all SW films.

 

For me, Luke did not undergo a change too drastic. In other words, yeah maybe he went from being an optimist to being a cynic, but there is still that small defect that Yoda made him notice in ESB and now in TLJ, Luke was always looking towards the horizon (the future) and never focused on what he had in front of his own nose (the present), that's why he ran like crazy to help his friends, and in the end it was all in vain because Lando ended up rescuing them, and instead he did not complete his training, he was left with a trauma at the time that darth vader was his father, in addition to losing a hand. In Return of the Jedi Vader took advantage of this when he mentions that he was going to turn Leia to the dark side, and this ends in Luke losing control almost falling to the dark side and almost killing Darth Vader. The Last Jedi again Luke loses control when fear seizes him to find out what Ben would do in the future, without realizing what he was doing and in the end he regrets when it was too late, Ben woke up and attacked him , destroying everything he had built

Funny thing that the same defect that Luke had, was the same defect that the Jedi suffered in the time, Jedi always looked into the future, and they never focused on the present, that's why the dark side (palpatine) did seized the power of the Republic in front of their noses

 

Given where Yoda and Obi Wan ended up in the OT compared to the PT, I think Luke pretty much had a comparable journey and ended more like Obi Wan's. But instead of being like Obi wan (an inspiration to one), Luke completed his journey being an inspiration of hope to the galaxy (as he was intended to be in the OT). Hopefully Rey will take the Jedi in a different direction and not end up as a secluded Jedi Master as previous.

 

Right but that's why I said "for a Star Wars movie" within that context it's pretty well paced. Star Wars movies are all long in the tooth. it's a staple of the franchise.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2018 ---

How is "disgraced former hero in isolation must come to terms with his own failings and once again rise to incredible heights to save his friends, family and hope for an entire galaxy" nonexistent? This is literally his arc from TFA to TLJ.

As for "changes too much", it's been thirty years since you last saw Luke in ROTJ. blast has happened. He's changed but he's still Luke.

 

i personally feel like going from a person who always tries to help and willing to sacrifice his own life to save someone really evil to a person that thinks about murdering his nephew in cold blood because what he might do in the future is quite the drastic change. Luke being a cynic instead of really hopeful is not an issue to me either, it could easily be explained by him just getting older and seeing this more realistically.

first off, i woudn't say he is a "disgraced former hero". Secondly it's more like being a hermit one minute and suddenly he's completely different,i don't think it was an arc, it was like 2 different characters in the movie. I wouldn't even mention his arc being in both movies since he's really not in TFA, it's more like the character was a gimmick to sell tickets.

 

Prone to drastic change sounds like an accurate description of Luke Skywalker!
He has a history of mood swings, acting rashly, and with passion - especially when a dark Skywalker poses a future threat to loved ones...

 

that's a good point, but seeing as how he became more cynical (or i would say, he sees things more realistically as opposed to the idealistic way he saw in OT), shouldn't he at the same time get less rash and have less mood swings now that he is older. He seemed a lot more calm and collected in RotJ compared to ESB and if he continued with that kind of development, i don't see why he would have been ready to murder anyone, let alone his kin.
that's still a pretty good point

 

everything that isn't story related. I think it's basically impossible to argue story objectivity unless you are "The Room".

TLJ is coherent, it's in focus, the CGI has been rendered and the sound works = Objective

IMO, every other single thing is open to subjectivity.

 

He also snapped out of real quick to.

 

Actually my point was not focused on OMG WHY DO PEOPLE HATE THIS!! The message i'm trying to convey is "why are we segregating over a star wars film?". Then I asked if it's down to the hype culture and 24/7 theorsing that creates such strong and segregation-seeking opinions. Maybe i could've made that clearer, but that was my overall point.

Speculation is fine. I'm merely questioning if the nature of today's theorising has created an increased vitriolic state within the fan base. when I talk about not getting it, i get the pro and con side will be passionate in their subjective thoughts of the movie. My point here was... I watched the movie again, and i really don't understand how quickly the fan base wanted to segregated. I guess I see a difference with wanting to debate pro's and con's and two set's of people hiding in "Love" and "hate" threads.

How the story played out is open to honest and fair debate. How does quote mining Mark Hamill achieve anything? I don't like the prequels, but my childhood wasn't raped. I'm asking why simple things...like a bog standard SW movie, essentially starts a war for "Mark's on my side...he gets it" Whether that is pro or con-TLJ story.

This was the first time I think i ever heard someone say "i'm sorry for speaking out". I find that a huge indictment of where this fan-base is heading.

But i'm specifically asking questions about the extreme responses. I think segregated threads are quite extreme, I think quote mining Hamill is extreme. My post was not about everyone that hates TLJ is those people. My post is asking why have those extreme's seemed to increased in their "intensity"?

 

The special FX, music, and cinematography were all nominated for Oscars so a lot of people thought they were good. When it comes to accepting/liking/disliking story choices it's simply a matter of subjectivity. That's where I get lost with some people when they try to argue that the film objectively has problems.

 

I don't mind it. It gives people a place to vent where there not going to be criticized for it and bickered at. To that end, it's better then the alternative.

 

the thing is that this thought was fleeting, it was something that came to mind when he saw what his nephew would do in the future, it is not something he would had done voluntarily, that is why after realizing he regrets what that he was involuntarily doing. At the end he choose to cut himself from the force because he fears that he could fall to the dark side, and he realize that he would be unable to kill his own nephew. Also he thinks that is for the best, to protect his loved ones

 

i don't know how fleeting it was if he entered where ever ben was sleeping, with lightsaber in hand. I might even considered it premeditated murder, why else would he take his lightsaber with him. Presumably it was night time since Ben was sleeping and it was really dark too.

is that reasoning for cutting himself off from the force cannon? cause it doesn't fully make sense, why would he cut himself off because he knows he can't kill his nephew? Feels like he just volutarily makes himself an easier target

 

he had done an egregious thing that had very serious consequences for his other pupils (and for Ben himself).
so, no longer trusting his own judgment, he removed himself from the picture:
went somewhere no one should have been able to find him, to wallow in his self-pity.

he basically chose to place himself in a psychological jail as punishment for his failure.

 

And also the history of the Jedi. How the failed in the prequel era. So, it wasn't just the almost killing of his Nephew.