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Thread for those who loved the movie

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by The Last Deadeye, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Exactly.
    Blows my mind how many people overlook the fact that the time for this (Super Luke) story had come and gone when the PT was made, more or less.
     
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  2. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    I don’t get it either. I know some don’t like it that Luke appeared to be a failure but I wonder if they would have been just as upset if he would have had a similar path in TFA to Obi Wan in ANH if he would have showed up early in the film and then sacrificed himself before the first half of the movie was finished. I know the TFA=ANH complainers would have had a field day with it.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I'd love to see a TV show set in the years immediately after ROTJ and before Resistance.
    Give people what they desire in Luke.

    Might help quell the overly angry
     
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  4. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I was talking to good friend of mine a few weeks ago and didn't like TLJ. I was curious as to why and he was kind of upset about Luke. When we boiled it down he as a big fan of the Force Unleashed. So he was expecting superhero Luke in this trilogy. It's difficult to blame someone for having this expectation and it's part of the problem Lucasfilm has with some fans who consumed decades of content that Lucas didn't consider canon. They're correcting this problem since the Disney transition, but when I talked to my friend about Luke in the Return of the Jedi and what that scene meant it changed how he thought about Luke.

    This is another reason I'm happy we're moving past this saga. This saga and these characters mean different things to different people. If you see Luke a certain way for 3 decades and that Luke is different now I don't blame people for being disappointed. Film producers won't have to worry about that when they move away from this saga.
     
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  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Force Sensitive

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    It'll have to be animation show because I don't think the fandom can handle a re-casted Luke at this point in time. Solo was a bit much for the fandom.
     
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  6. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Ironically...

     
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  7. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Well that series shows Leia being strong so that's a problem too....
     
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  8. Ender

    Ender Rebelscum

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    As Luke was growing in wisdom toward the end of ROTJ he began growing more aware of how his presence could have a reverse impact on others and was considering where his presence may endanger others. Luke’s choice to retire from teaching and thoughts on retiring the Jedi Order for good are essentially of the same type of mindset that considers impact on others. It’s just that this time many of his strengths had been put toward a less worthy battle against himself and the Jedi.

    [​IMG]
     

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  9. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    I believe the root of why a significant number of people find this premise incongruent is how abrupt and resolute it’s presented in the story. The Luke we see in ROTJ was committed to the prospect of either saving his father or to die trying - victory or death and nothing between. The Luke we see in TLJ, because of his negligent failure, immediately jumps to the extreme of disillusionment and martyrdom. He, and his Jedi beliefs, can’t save Ben or anyone else because they were instrumental to that division to start with. His intent is to help everyone by helping no one - he’s convinced he’ll only make matters worse. A noble, though misguided, sentiment.

    While the Luke character had certainly demonstrated the propensity for rash decision making in the OT, this was a bridge too far for some people. However demoralizing the defeat, the Luke they were familiar with wouldn’t so definitively abandon his defining ethos so easily. However narratively relevant, it just wasn’t built up enough to be believable for a good portion of the audience. It’s one of those things that makes perfect sense on paper, but can be easily misconstrued on screen if not handled exactly right.

    Personally, I loved that angle. Luke’s reaction in Ben’s hut, to me, is a parallel to his failure in the Dagobah cave in ESB. He’d brought his ‘weapons’ (aggressive feelings) with him and what he naturally found there was confrontation. Unlike ESB though, where his faulty decision was echoed by his impetuous racing off to face Vader, it’s reversed and he instead races AWAY from the conflict. An equally faulty, but opposite reaction. Brilliant! I totally understand why a healthy number of fans didn’t find that development properly earned though.
     
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  10. Ender

    Ender Rebelscum

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    I’m still new here. How do I like the above post beyond commenting like this?
     
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  11. KyloRen16

    KyloRen16 Clone Commander

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    I think you have to have a total of 30 posts before you can leave a like on a post or create a topic. (han)
     
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  12. Ender

    Ender Rebelscum

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    Thanks.

    Looks like I’m still a long way from being able to make a new topic as well.
     
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  13. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

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    I think that if you post on member's profile pages, those count towards the "level-up" :) Also, they are loads of fun :D
     
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    One of the more interesting (IMO) elements of TLJ is the reexamination of the Father/Son duality theme that runs through the OT. The idea of Luke becoming his father. In ANH, it’s generally a positive premise. The kid looks up to his (supposedly) heroic dad and wants to be just like him. A totally straight forward and relatable motivation.

    In ESB, though it isn’t apparent until the end, is all about the danger of him becoming the dark version of that same father figure. Could Luke become a new Vader - that’s the immediate threat we’re focused on with that character. In a ‘be careful what you wish for…’ kind of fate twist, it’s a negative reflection of that same element.

    In ROTJ, that becomes the principle driver for is arc. Luke, now fully aware of who his father really is, has to surpass and become something better - not his father as he is, but as he should have been. Who he had believed he was.

    TLJ explores that idea further by proposing the concept that Luke, in a way, did become his father in essence. He too had lost his faith. He’d also resigned himself to a hopeless state of accepting the futility of idealism. And just like him, he desperately needed someone uncompromised by the weight of fatalism to reignite that spark of belief. Yes, he’d lost way and understandably so, but it wasn’t too late to find his way back - a re-return of the Jedi.
     
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  15. Ender

    Ender Rebelscum

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    I like the above post a lot. I’ll only add one other element to that. I’m fascinated by the notion that Luke was so concerned over becoming Vader and so focused on undoing Vader’s legacy and hiding that family secret along with Leia that it likely helped allow Kylo Ren to discover it from Snoke himself and bond over that knowledge and see himself in Vader.

    Similarly, following his dark side regret at the temple, Luke takes extreme measures to go the other way away from his father. He doesn’t embrace the dark side. He shuts out the force entirely. He doesn’t want weapons. He throws them away. He thinks he’s relinquishing control and yet he’s seeking to control the entire fate of the Jedi Order itself.

    The fear of becoming like Vader lead to a different kind of easier path and anger directed within instead of outward and the result is a different form of darkness.

    I personally love these aspects of Star Wars.
     
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  16. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    That’s a solid point. It isn’t really in the direct text itself, but there’s a bit of subtext there. We can imagine maybe a young Ben would have felt a smidge of dejection and betrayal from his master similar to how Luke felt toward his own. “Ben, why didn’t you tell me?”
    Excellent observation. His strategy of avoidance winds up compounding the very issue he intended to reduce. He’d convinced himself it was a stoic, altruistic gesture - for everyone’s betterment, but really it was just a selfish act. “The legacy of the Jedi is failure, hypocrisy, hubris.” Well, it certainly is NOW, Luke ;)
    Well said. I also see it as the sort of extreme extension of the PT era Jedi. They were so fearful of the darkside that they methodically eliminated anything from their lives that could potentially lead to it. Everything except for the Force itself that is.

    Since I’m gushing about TLJ, I’ll toss some strokes to TFA too. I love how Kylo’s character motivation is presented as an inversion to Luke’s. While Luke wanted to model himself after the good man Anakin was, ignorant of how terrible he’d become, Ben wants to model himself after the terrible man Anakin was, (presumably) ignorant of how good he’d become. A neat little spin.
     
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  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Okay but what about Snoke and the Knights of Ren huh!?!?! Clearly they didn't think this through....
     
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  18. Mortis

    Mortis Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
    You made me like Kylo even more. Thanks.
     
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  19. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Clearly. It’s not like some mentor figure just swooped in to sweet talk Luke into being his student one day. Got me there. Never mind :)
     
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  20. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    tenor (18).gif
     
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