SPECULATION Vader's Unfinished Work

It will really shatter lil' Kylo's world when Luke informs him that Vader changed his mind about the whole empire thing in the end

 

Thank you. That is what I meant.

 

Or Anakin could appear as a ghost and tell Kylo himself.

 

We can only go by what we have been told in canon, and what I said was "according to Sidious." I'm saying the FO/KOR could believe, as was "insinuated" in ROTS, that Plagueis created Anakin and Sidious messed up the grand plan. It wouldn't make sense to bring up Plagueis and Anakin in the ST and not address the supposed creation of the Chosen One by Plagueis.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 25, 2015, Original Post Date: Aug 25, 2015 ---

Where does it say that? There were places high in Force energy, but I don't remember anyone saying ghosts could only manifest in those places.

 

It was a joke, dude -- kinda like this entire thread.

 

Uh... Someone needs to go back to Joke School, then.

 

I think there's merit to your children of the force theories. That whole thing was orchestrated by Sidious: if they won't become lackeys (inquisitors) then they get axed. I'm sure Vader had his own design on what to do with force sensitive children -- though it's never stated exactly what that was. But your Plagueis theory is just too much for me, man. I'm sorry for the clash we had. I'll stay out of your thread now.

 

...sigh...here we are again. You Plagueis guys...jeez...plaguesis didn't create anakin, the force did so of its own accord to create balance. It's canon. It's from a novel, Tarkin, I believe. Blue streaking knows for sure, he's the one who set set me straight.

Next.

 

love the OP, especially the bit concerning there being Force users despite Order 66. not quite sure on some of the other parts, but there are some solid ideas here.

firstly, i think everyone's looking a bit too much at Vader/Anakin and not enough at the Empire as a whole. think about what the Empire did: it consolidated power, tore the bureaucracy apart, and essentially banned Jedi on pain of death. some people probably thought these were good changes, especially those that had something to gain by the consolidation of power. i bet a lot of people were glad to be rid of the meddling, high handed Jedi too. what i think the article is trying to say is that the Empire is missed by some, almost like some antebellum.

as for Vader, he was probably seen as a Jedi that saw the error of his ways. he was brave enough to stand up to them and he was ultimately very successful. he made possible the power shifts that occurred, and at the end of the day he was a figure head. whether or not Vader turned to the good side at the end is a moot point: we all know the Holocaust happened at the end of WW2, but there are some that would adamantly deny that it ever happened. if you ask me, whoever is in the First Order is right up there with Holocaust deniers. it doesn't matter what actually happened; they have an agenda and they're sticking to it.

the fact that the FO and the KoR are kicking around tells me two things: firstly, the Empire was likely training dark side Force users. this may not end up being the case, but it sounds more likely than there being a third super secret order around the whole time. the second thing this tells me is that, for whatever reason, the Sith are out. they're done. whatever the Sith stood for, these guys clearly have a different idea (or else, why not be Sith?). the way i see it, the KoR and the FO are bent on keeping a leash on anyone that can use the Force, as well as a leash on the galaxy as a whole by means of the power moves that the Empire made decades ago.

 

Order 66 failed = Kylo has some Jedis on his To-Do-List.

 

My take on this:

Vaders destiny was to break the stalemate of both Force Fractions that had undergone an unnatrual structure in the circle of the Force.

The Sith being silent and mostly inactive or being very sneaky as for focusing all their powers in one Master, a dark side nexus, and his apprentice. The Jedi as an Order being passiv and corrupted in many ways not helping or guide people to become better.

Vaders destiny was taken over and used by the Sith but backfired ath them. At the end the Sith were wiped out by the way of how they brought in Vader to do the cleansing of the Jedi, whichdidn´t seem to be his only work.

And 30 years it seems that this balance of the force was not really achieved, which means that there was more in the background that was not taken out.

 

It depends on who said it and what the context was. Was it Sidious saying he lied about Plagueis creating life?
Only thing I can find is a reference in "Tarkin" of Palpatine saying Plagueis believed "the Force can strike back." That does not make the Force creating Anakin canon. It is much more ambiguous than the Plagueis novel was on the subject. And once again, I never said Plagueis definitely created him, only that it "might" be what the FO/KOR believe to be the case.

 

on the whole Plagueis part of this, why would Vader, having learned the power of bringing people back from the dead, waste this ability on a Sith master he didn't even know when his whole plan from the start was TO BRING BACK PADME?

as for who was responsible for Shmi's immaculate conception, i don't know how constructive the back and forth is on the subject. let's just allow people to have their opinions and agree to disagree, huh?

personally, with the info we're learning about the KoR and Supreme Leader Snoke of the FO (so far NO mention of Sith), i really doubt Plagueis is going to feature in any future Star Wars film.

just my 2 cents...

 

I agree. I have no problem with either view of Anakin's conception. I don't think it's supposed to be a settled matter. The problem comes when someone insists something is canon without any actual evidence and acts like people of the opposite view are morons.
While I think Plagueis coming into the ST would be interesting, I agree that he probably isn't going to.

 

Nope

Next

 

Believe it or not, Vader ultimately wanted Peace.

Anakin/Vader's unfinished business is uniting the Galaxy to solve problems. Vader wanted someone strong to Rule so that "problems" would be dealt with.

Anakin said, "We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problems, agree what's in the best interests of all the people, and then do it."

He disliked disagreement. He wanted everyone to get a long and agree on the best course of action. He, essentially, wanted Unity - even if it means "They should be made to (unify)."

He never fully believed in the Sith (As he turns to Luke on his deathbead and said "You were right about me" - there was a conflict in his heart about the Emperor) - but he did see the value of the Empire in that it united people under a common flag of agreement where problems would be dealt with. "There will be no one to stop us." "Together we can Rule".

This is at odds with the fact that people often disagree and don't believe that one person should be able to dictate the terms for all. Democracy is messy. Allowing committees to disagree and argue a point to death frustrated Anakin.

If Kylo is anything like Anakin (and it looks like he might be), he will view himself as someone trying to unite the Galaxy so that they can be Ruled and so that there can be a lasting Peace. Their motto is "The First Order - Rule the Galaxy" (at least on toy products it says this).

Thus Kylo doesn't have to be a Sith - anymore than Vader didn't have to be a Sith. Their failure is in thinking that Might is Right and that the best way to solve problems is to tell people what to do - and not allow them to disagree.