Why a "Gray" Force, if true, will ruin Star Wars and the Sequels

I haven't been watching Rebels to be honest, I've only seen a couple of episodes. But even if the "one in the middle" dosen't imply grey, the show still introduced an idea beyond light and dark.

 

I wouldn't say "beyond", but just something in the middle... which it's a little bit different (Beyond maybe be - not sure but just to explain - what Luke implies in the trailer with "it's so much bigger").
However, the question is why. What that character has brought to the show and to the SWU.
To me, it wasn't because being in the middle is the way. On the contrary....

Just edited this, if you are interested in what Bend was in Rebles (IMO)
https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....ended-and-why-bendu-never-was-the-gray.11675/

 

Are we talking about institutions in general or specific. I don't disagree with you in principle. In specific I don't object to new ideas its the possible retcon of what Jedi are that troubles me. Turning awayfrom them as evil or as not worth continuing changes the victory of ROTJ. I don't like that idea.

As for new and additional good perspectives on the force that would be great. But suggesting that the Jedi are so flawed that you are justifiedthrowing the baby out with the bathwater that I think changes to much.

 

Can someone just explain to me what the middle way is and how it will aid the good guys in defeating the bad guys?

 

none of us understand the Force.
by nature it is a supernatural power beyond understanding.
it cannot be defined by midichlorians or concrete measurements or any of that.

but we do associate certain behaviors and powers with the Force.

so here's a very simple example of what the middle is:
Force lightning is considered a use of Dark power.
why? there's nothing inherently evil about Force lightning.
why shouldn't a Force user take advantage and use all things in their arsenal and apply them to the purpose of good?

because yes, power corrupts.
but maybe that's the point of this larger sense of balance.

perhaps the true power of the middle is incorruptibility.

and that doesn't mean we suddenly lose all the rest of the bloody spectrum of Dark and Light.
it just means enlightenment for the few who can/will embrace it.

 

Good stories need a clear concept of Good/Evil. If you want to see the power of grey look no further than the Maxtrix trilogy. The first film had a clear concept of good and evil and by the third film they tried to created this nonsensical balance between humans/machines. There's no right or wrong.

At the heart of these stories is the clear concept of right and wrong. Once you say that light is no better than dark and that being in the middle is just as good then what's the point?

 

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....he-mortis-arc-of-tcw.11812/page-3#post-364446

 

light and dark are metaphors for behavior. there is nothing inherently evil about light and dark.

a gun is just a thing. it has no morality.
it is just an inert object unless someone picks it up and kills with it.

the Force is a gun. like any power, in the wrong hands it's dangerous.

a middle ground in the Force doesn't automatically eliminate or void the concepts of right and wrong in any way whatsoever.

 

I was reviewing this video the other day, which I find very interesting, and realized there's some contradiction in what Lucas says. He clearly states what's good and what's bad, yet he mentions the balance (which is the base of the chosen one's prophecy) but didn't explain what it means.

Nonetheless, I love what he says and his shiny eyes. He has Star Wars at his heart!

I hope this is exactly what Lukes will reveal to us when he says "it's much bigger"

 

So let's say that Luke is ending the Jedi because the power it offers to its followers is corrupting (if that is what you're implying?) - those that wish to do evil will still use the dark side. Not all dark siders stem from the Jedi. And so if they rise and the Jedi are not around, then they will take over and oppress the galaxy without end.

And if we are talking about corruptibility then surely those in the middle, who are essentially still holding on to some greed, are more easily corruptible than others?

The middle ground essentially means acting in both light and dark ways or being passive, which in itself can be an evil thing sometimes.

I dunno, I just feel this theme was done to death with the PT. We saw how the Jedi got it wrong and went against their own precepts. Then Luke rectified that in the OT, through the adapted training of Yoda, and the right result was found. And bag was essentially compassion and love defeating greed and hate.

I also think this talk of the Jedi having too much power to be pandering to the notion that one shouldn't aspire to be the best you can possibly be. Being a "perfect" Jedi is incredibly hard but that doesn't mean you should settle for less. It doesn't mean it should be ok to hold on to that bit of greed or anger or hatred.

FYI - it's well worth reading the ROTS novel. I was taking a look the other night and the Jedi are constantly banging on in that about how they knew they were getting it wrong and were betraying their ways but just didn't see another way.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 19, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 19, 2017 ---

I think he explains things perfectly here. What people need to do is see the balance as being somewhat disconnected from the Jedi and Sith. The balance is more about the good and evil in the galaxy and by extension the force itself. The Sith spread evil everywhere and empower the dark over the light. The Jedi destroy those who do this and enable the balance between light and dark to return.

 

if you redefine my terms then of course it's always tenuous and dangerous (and relativist).

if the middle is incorruptible, it's incorruptible. that's the point.
perhaps the middle is understanding and harnessing destructive energy in a way to make it work for good.
like a controlled burn.

 

I think it's a bit much to write off the whole series if they go the "Grey Jedi" way.

But, What about the idea of having a jedi that can go between the Light side and the Dark side fairly easily, make it based around morality instead of emotions (or lack thereof)

I think we are looking too much into this "grey jedi" thing.


This is what I think. I think that we as fans might have to start considering the idea of the Prophecy being about Rey, instead of the skywalker (Which is, I know, sacrilegious). If we take it literally, from what we have been told. It speaks of one that will bring balance.

What if Rey is that balance?

Yoda did speak of interpreting the Prophecy the wrong way.

 

I'm not trying to do that, I guess I'm just not getting the point.

I can't see how one can harness hatred and anger for good. The point about doing that would be, even with good intentions, you'd be lead down the wrong path. If you're hateful, then you're hateful. There is no turning it on and off like a tap. You're hateful for a reason. And that reason, if you foster it, will lead you to acting out of greed rather than compassion. This can only lead to bad consequences. In fact, it's exactly what we saw happen to the Jedi in the PT!!

 

Again, people seem to just come out with this stuff without giving it serious thought.

You can't just decide to use anger or hatred one day. You have to be angry and hateful. And if you're either of these things then you're fostering greed. And if you're doing this then you're using the dark side and causing suffering. I can't see how this is in any way positive or a good morality story for kids!

 

But that's the thing. We don't know exactly what a true balance force user and when I mean "use the dark side and the light side" I mean using the strength, not actually falling into anger and hatred. (She did this the TFA when she over-powered Kylo)

 

We do - it's Anakin before he turned. It's Kylo Ren in TFA. It's Luke before he does he right thing and becomes a Jedi. These are cases of people being in he middle. But you won't find anyone who can stay in the middle over a sustained period of time and be a master of the force. They'll just be a conflicted mess until they make the choice to join the dark or light side.

 

What happens if she is the first?

We don't know, I am just speculating like everyone else on this, but what happens if she is the purest of the pure the true one who can balance it?

 

Has anyone thought that perhaps Rey will become the first Whill? Perhaps she will be the founder of the Whills.

 

Just words. In practice it's impossible/nonsensical. She will either act with hate or she won't. If she does it leads to bad consequences. It's gobbledygook if that doesn't happen.