SPECULATION Why Did Ben Solo Turn to the Dark Side?

Right on. We sure don't want to hang with Kylo Ren right now.

 

awwww ~ why do you gotta send me off to work this morning with that sad thought? hahahahaha

Vader, you done screwed up the galaxy!
well, technically it was Palpy-face. and we may yet learn it was Snoke all along. but Vader certainly did his part, didn't he?

all the more reason his grandson can't follow in his footsteps. : o (

not at the moment, no ~ hahahaha
when he's ready to be Ben Solo again, then we'll talk. : D

 

They are all Palpy-face grandchildren. I still like to think that Darth Vader would have ended slavery had he been successful convincing his boy to join him, even with the evil Sith Lord thing going on.

 

ha! and i think that's where Ben's brain is: he thinks he's going to bring order to the galaxy and Snoke has convinced him that he can only do it through the power of the Dark side--that grandpa was so close and gave it all up for sentiment.

and yet he seems the last to realize he is so ill-suited for this job as the fishy-eyed toilet monster presents it: he seems to be such a mess of feelings in a way that even Anakin never was.

that said, he may yet succeed as his true self.

 

Vader pretty much said as much, bring an end to this conflict, etc, etc. I hope that is what RenBen means by finish what Vader started.

 

Don't just dip your toes--jump right in!

Yes, it's a fine line between being influenced and being seduced... It seems clear Ben was influenced very early on in the womb (I really think that's what was going on in A:EE). But unless we're misreading what we know from Bloodline, it doesn't seem that he chose to turn (via his own agency) until much later, in his twenties. (When he found out his relatives had withheld rather essential information about his bloodline, perhaps?) So I have to wonder what kind of struggle the kid was going through for twenty-odd years, fighting off this darkness for decades, until he finally gave in.

And yet even turning to the dark didn't end his struggle.

I have to wonder what it is going to take to do that. It seems Ben Solo is unique in that he is a rare focus of light and dark conflict (so Snoke says, anyway). The deeper question to me is, Was Snoke just a conduit for this struggle, and is Ben Ren's struggle the universal unending conflict between "Light" and "Dark" themselves? If so, what can the solution be? Is there a middle ground where he will not be torn apart? Or is turning to the Light the only solution for him?

 

this is a great question because i know we've been on about him returning to the Light and choosing the Light and all that, but we may find out he was trying to walk that path before the fall: training to be Jedi, living in the Light. and yet he was likely no less torn.

all roads point to this middle ground, a nexus of Light and Dark: Bendu, the Whills, even Snoke's acknowledgment.

is Rey that too? are they designed as stabilizers for one another? their proximity made her dip Dark (with good reason, of course), but it also made him dip Light.

 

Yes, how does Rey fit into all this, what with being the hero and all--and how does her connection with Ren Ben affect all this? Will they "offset" each other, or both get "grayer"?

I like the "stabilizers" idea. I feel like I need to see what Rey's issues will be/are before I can really theorize--I think we've only scratched the surface of her. She's of course going to be the key to all this. Honestly, I don't think we know (to mix the metaphors) what shape the puzzle is yet really, so we don't know what pieces of it need to be filled in.

 

In my opinion...

End of TFA=

[Light Side] <--REY-----------------------------REN--> [Dark Side]

End of TLJ=

[Light Side] <----------REN--[BANG!]--REY---------> [Dark Side]

End of IX=

[Light Side ]<?------------------------------------------?>[Dark Side]

 

I think the narrative is definitely pointing toward Rey going darker (temporarily) and Ren going lighter, but I think we've been getting primed for not quite such a binary understanding of Force use, as @FN-3263827 says above:

I really don't think Rey is going to go wholesale dark, especially not to end the ST. I just think that's too depressing for traditionally hopeful SW after she's been taken into the hearts of all our heroes. I mean, just don't do that to Leia and Luke again. My hunch only, of course.

 

you don't think they're going to end TLJ with Rey perhaps reluctantly with the FO and Ren (perhaps equally reluctantly) with the Resistance?
that's not necessarily what i think, but it certainly does fit the idea of the shifting scales toward the balance. it puts them both in the middle and uncertain.

or perhaps it's not quite so literal: Rey is just leaning Dark in her anger and Ren is leaning Light in his hope. she's maybe at odds with the Resistance and he's at odds with Snoke/the FO. both go Rogue ~ hahahaha

did they explode? hahahahaha

maybe the final line more accurate to your meaning would be:


[x] <----------REN--REY---------> [x]

 

From a certain point of view, yes...

I see what you did there! I'm still trying to get my head around the "beyond light and dark" ideas. I dunno...I think they have to be somewhere on the scale between light and dark though, whatever that means!

 

it might depend on what this actually means. i don't know how Bendu works because i just sort of easily accept being told he is what he is. and i won't pretend to actually care about defining or making sense of the Force.

but i do think there must exist a plane of Force sensitivity that can balance Dark and Light--because even though Dark is a path to bad things, it does have righteous applications. we tend to think of the Jedi (and therefore the Light) as "all-good", but the Jedi were flawed and the so the Light, too, may have "weaknesses"?

if we think of these things as absolute and pure, then yes, there's no grey.
but are they absolute and pure?

i think we all are! : D

 

Well, actually, I think we agree on that!

It is interesting that in A:EE Leia is thinking of her baby and what Luke told her about dark and light:

Spoiler: Luke on light/shadow

He [baby] is less a human-shaped thing and more a pulsing, living band of light. Light that sometimes dims, that sometimes is thrust with a vein of darkness. She [Leia] tells herself that it's normal--Luke said to her, Leia, we all have that. He explained that the brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

So maybe Luke did experience a great deal of what Ben is. I sure would like to know more about Ben and Luke's relationship...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 3, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 3, 2017 ---

Possibly Rey might be there at the end of TLJ, but "reluctantly" wouldn't be "wholesale" dark... I'm just thinking that TPTB won't leave her there for the end of Ep. IX.

And yes, I think middle and uncertain will be the status for both Rey and Ren Ben by the end of TLJ. Just where we fans will be.

I would love that.

 

Yep, we have that from Yoda, "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny." And yet, what constitutes the dark path? For example, leading the Jedi Order off its ethical moorings, perhaps?? (I'm looking at you, Master Yoda.) Do good intentions count toward the light path, even if they're wrong and/or dark? I don't know. I never want to lose the idea that right is right and wrong is wrong...but people are never really that simple, are they? How do we reconcile that into a saga essentially about choosing to do what's right? That's the challenge the ST is facing. I'm just kind of holding on to see where this ST takes us in terms of Light and Dark!

 

i know a lot of people immediately think he's after power, but this is much closer to the truth, i believe.
he has a lot of power and he knows it, but he doesn't know what to do with it or how to control it or what it means for him to have it.
and those are the things he's allowed Snoke to define for him.
like you said, he was probably at a point where he just needed answers and a sense of order and meaning to his world--one that Han, Leia, Luke couldn't provide for him in the way that he needed it.

i also agree that i think a lot of us know a Kylo Ren in our lives--or have been him ourselves.
i think that's a big part of why he affects people so deeply and so divisively.