Why Snoke is a Sith

you are literally asking me something to explain something I just explained.

Plagueis... had a sith master.... that he killed.

Plaguieses sith master, had a sith masteer.... Plagueis's sith master... killed his own master.

Plaguieses sith master's master, had a sith master, that he killed.

going all the way back... to darth Bane, who established this system.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2016 ---

What contradiction? What contradiction are you talking about?

 

Let's resume this thread here. Members who were not able to respectfully disagree have been contacted.

It's ok to have different opinions.

 

Yep.

Not unknown. Darth Plagueis.

Yes.

Indeed. Darth Bane was the last of the Sith 1000yrs or so prior to TPM and created the rule of two.

There was only one. Created by Darth Bane. No other Sith existed beyond him and he created the rule of two. So only two Sith existed onwards from that point.

This isn't how it worked. This never happened. From Bane, there were only ever 2 Sith. A master and an apprentice. Within that time period any other Sith was killed and replaced. The Sith Order couldn't allow anyone to branch off else it would reveal them to the Jedi. Does that rule it out? Perhaps not. Perhaps someone survived death unbeknownst to the Sith. However, this person would not longer be a true Sith - he or she would have to create his or her own order. Sure, they would have all the hallmarks of Sith and perhaps call themselves Sith. But there is no evidence of this happening at all. And had it happened we would've heard of this Sith well before the events of TFA. For this Sith would've craved power and revenge and not stood idly by whilst Sidious took over.

But again - there is a small possibility one Sith survived and lived in exile for many years. However, there is a tiny tiny chance that this is who Snoke is as the makers have said that he isn't Sith.

It was a silly thing IMO to bring him back - nevertheless, he is no longer a Sith. Simply Maul. Outside of the Sith Order. He has the knowledge and power to pass on and create something new but he isn't Sith. He isn't part of the Sith order, its plans and doctrines.

Possible (as most things are) but highly unlikely. These Sith would've revealed themselves sooner. And the true lineage of Sith wouldn't allow it.

If Snoke is a Sith then the only one he can be is Plagueis. However, this is all very unlikely now. The makers have stated Snoke is not Sith. The Sith are talked of in the past tense. Snoke's apprentice is a "Ren" not a "Sith" or a "Darth".

I can't see them lying about this. I hope they are and I hope Snoke is Plagueis. But it has about a 2% chance of being right. Snoke is someone else that has reawakened the Dark Side, taken its knowledge and power and seeks to now rule the galaxy. I don't think he would've had this power prior to the events of ROTJ as he would've made a power play sooner. I think it possible that he was perhaps a former Jedi or random Force sensitive who became badly injured and then made a deal with the devil (the Dark Side) to survive. It sustained him and corrupted him and now he wants power.[/QUOTE]

 

:: mic drop ::

There's nothing really to add to this discussion. The only way Snoke or Kylo Ren are Sith is if Pablo Hidalgo and others are lying. I see no reason to lie about this innocuous plot point.

 

Dark Lord of the Sith - Darth - is a title exclusive to the only two living dark side force users who follow that particular code/lineage/belief-system/religion called Sith.

This in no way precludes there being many other dark side followers/practitioners (i.e. Ventress, Maul, Night Sisters etc...) For all we know there could be thousands.

Yoda and Mace Windu only spoke of the Sith having been thought extinct, but the lure of the Darkside has always been danger. The implication being that people were still falling to the darkside of the force; they just weren't assuming the title of Sith. The Lost 20 is canon I believe: Dooku became a Sith, what happend to the other 19?

 

"The Sith, collectively known as the Sith Order, were an order of Force users who utilized the dark side of the Force in an effort to gain power over the galaxy. The Sith were the ancient enemies of the Jedi Order and fought numerous wars with them for thousands of years."
from:-
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

so.. i'm confused.
Force users who utilised the dark side of the force in an effort to gain power over the galaxy.... is this not what's going on?

are they only sith if they specifically call themselves Sith? Snoke seems to be Kylo's master.. so yeah.. i'm not really getting it.

i am fully aware that people have specifically said that Snoke/Kylo are NOT sith, but surely that may be to protect future stories.
remember...Cucumberpatch is not Khan

do we really think that there won't be a big 'sith are back baby' related film title at some point in the future?

 

Wiki is fan-edited remember.
The Sith, for me, are of course Force users who use the Dark Side but the Sith order is more than that.
It's a set of doctrines and rules that is based around the rule of 2. This rule wasn't just about ensuring the Sith didn't kill each other but to ensure their order was preserved and could see through the plan of taking down the Jedi.

So like any club, it had its rules and then within that club knowledge and power was passed around. It was exclusive.

Now, it could be that a past Sith survived (though there is no evidence of this - up until Plagueis who perhaps was closest to having the ability to cheat death ). It could be that, someone like Maul, took with him the Sith knowledge and formed his own club. It might be that Snoke or Kylo discover Sith teachings and, the latter in particular, plan to rebirth the Sith Order.

But right now it seems that isn't the case. Many of the Sith's teachings have been lost and their doctrines are no more. The club has been shut down.
Sure, Snoke may walk and talk like a Sith but he doesn't use the term. Nor does Kylo (yet). They don't adhere to the rule of 2 (though share the end goal of the Sith = destruction of the Jedi).

So we shouldn't get too cut up on the loss of the Sith Order. The Dark Side has a new group in Snoke and Co.
But one shouldn't forget what set the Sith apart. They were the pinnacle of the Dark Side. Powerful Force users who passed down knowledge over generations.
You can't just pluck that kinda knowledge out of the blue. It's why the Sith were so formidable and "feared" by the Jedi.
The question is where did Snoke get his knowledge and power? Did he discover it late? If he's had it for centuries, what has he been doing? Did he turn to the Dark Side to keep himself alive? Was he once a Jedi?

In relation to your question, I'd be surprised if Kylo didn't seek to one day reprise the Sith order - at least so he can call himself "Darth" and complete his Sith cosplay charade.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2016 ---

There is plenty to interpret and plenty that is interpreted differently across these forums. But some things are black and white.
If you're going to dismiss certain canon facts then it is a pointless exercise.
I could simply say "Luke died in the Throne Room in ROTJ and everything after that was a dream" - prove me otherwise.
It's nonsense.
It has been said that Snoke isn't a Sith. Other evidence suggests he is not Sith. Now you can create as many threads as you like - just don't get upset when the vast majority disagree or aren't willing to debate such an improbably scenario.

 

Here's some other topics you should create:

- Why Han Solo is still alive
- Why Leia never married Han Solo
- Why Luke isn't a member of the Jedi Order

I'm truly sorry you created a thread and were unprepared to deal with the reality of the topic. Your issue isn't this forum or with Pablo Hidalgo. It's with being wrong. There are plenty of threads with unresolved questions. You chose to create a thread on a resolved question. Quit trying to scapegoat others. As for everyone else.... there's an element of "feed the troll" here because this is indeed resolved.

 

what it says on starwars.com isn't a lot different in all honesty, but yes.. good to remember that any sod can edit it lol.

it's a bloody confusing topic to be honest. I can only assume that there is some kind of in-force mantle when a dark sided user takes an apprentice and gives himself a sith title. maybe it's something that dark side users are 'aware' of if someone has that mantle.

with Maul turning up in rebels and announcing that he's no longer sith.. makes it all the more confusing.

until we meet Snoke and hear more about what they are up to i guess it's all question marks.. but we've got a dark side user with an apprentice who's running around in black with a red lightsaber trying to find the last surviving Jedi... sounds like Sith to me.

in 1983 we saw Darth Vader pick up the emperor and throw him down a shaft to his death. despite what canon says and what GL and others have said since... i am still of the opinion that Vader saw his chance to kill his master and take Luke as his apprentice. it didn't work out and he made out that he was sorry.. i've never bought it that Vader had a change of heart, but that's just me.

i'll never stop interpreting Star wars. Yes, the powers that be are much more accessible now on social media.. it's the world we live in now and it's only going to grow. C'est la vie

 

Conspiracy? Just doubling checking...

"I'm truly sorry you created a thread and were unprepared to deal with the reality of the topic. Your issue isn't this forum or with Pablo Hidalgo. It's with being wrong. There are plenty of threads with unresolved questions. You chose to create a thread on a resolved question. Quit trying to scapegoat others. As for everyone else.... there's an element of "feed the troll" here because this is indeed resolved."​

Yep... no mention of a Star Wars conspiracy in my quote.

 

Wandering off topic here a bit I think. I can't tell if you're being obtuse on purpose. "This" and "that" aren't specific. You'll have be more clear because I am not discussing a Star Wars conspiracy.

Not gonna rehash this any further since there's nothing new to add. We've gotten a satisfactory answer on this topic and there's no reason to doubt its accuracy. Might as well debate the whether the Earth is flat. There's no law against debating topics that are already settled. Have fun.

 

Flipping heck. That's all I have.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 5, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 5, 2016 ---

No, it was right on the money. They were things that we haven't seen on screen or not alluded to on screen but have been confirmed off screen, within canon sources. Just like Snoke being, or rather not being, a Sith.

Anyway, I didn't want to get into a slanging match with you again but considering how you haven't replied to any of my comments in this thread I guess there isn't much risk in saying this: You are repeating your troll like tactics as you did with me in the "balance of the Force" thread, where you purposefully made no sense, twisted mine and other people's words and went around in circles. Your concept here and in other threads is ridiculous and you're both wasting everyone's time and causing friction.

Just stop it and learn how to debate sensibly.

 

I don't know.. but they should in my opinion keep the Sith etc as a plot point! Was a great idea for the first 6 films, and will be a great idea for the rest.