Why Snoke is a Sith

In Rebels Darth Maul says he has dropped the Sith title of Darth. then he quotes the Sith Code to Ezra.
He is a Sith, he may have dropped the Darth or it may just be a name drop of convenience to lul his enemy in to a false sense of security, I guess this is actually a point that highlights the difference with a jedi and Sith, I Sith will do anything they need to do or want to do. a jedi has to abide or is restricted by a moral code.
All that aside, the first thing he does is Quote the Sith code to Ezra.

 

"YOUR ANCIENT RELIGION" in the O.T established the Sith in all but name, make no mistake about that.
Anything that came after it came from these lines.
"THE JEDI WE GUARDIANS OF PEACE IN THE GALAXY FOR A THOUSAND GENERATIONS" and "YOUR ANCIENT RELIGION"

So the concepts were Bourne from these lines.
The writer took that the esoteric group Vader belong to, the "Ancient Religion" line, and the fact that Vader was opposed to the Jedi who had fought an enemy for "A Thousand generations" and there is your jedi and Sith. Thousands of years battle and conflict.
Hence the E.U. versions and ideas of early Sith and Jedi battles.

There are E.U ideas about the Sith, the reason I and others have addressed the rule of two is because we are acknowledging the E.U exists in a valid way as part of cannon, therefore has to be taken in to account.

One argument is that Darth Vader and Emperor palpatine we the last two Sith.
Also, that they were practising the rule of two at the time.
This then adds weigh to the argument that if the rule of two was established, there would only be two Sith in existence, so when Vader died, so to did the Sith with him.

On the other hand, if the rule of to was never in effect there can be a multitude of other Sith, just because the Saga focused of two does not mean there was only two. So its actually an important point.

The prequels added a name "The Sith" they also established that any Sith is a Darth.
The prequels also told us that the Sith had all been dead for a thousand years?
We have to just except the prequels to be ill conceived ideas.

The reality is while the prequels were telling us the Jedi believed the Sith to be dead for a thousand years, there were at least 4 sith's in the movies. All stemming from palpatine. Who would have had a master of his own. and so on.

The prequels also pose a slight contradiction, if there are no Sith, how can the rule of two be in effect, and as an extension of this, how could it carry over to the O.T.

A possibility is they could say apprentice just killed master and they never got to fight the Jedi.
But its a stretch to say not one jedi ever fought a Sith in a thousand years?
What were the Jedi even doing?

I think we also have to be clear here, while the E.U is cannon, the movies are really there own thing. They are not aware of a E.U so to speak.
Nothing that has not been established within The SAGA MOVIES is in existence, in that SAGA.

The E.U ideas of the Sith do not exist in the movies, not by matter of opinion, just by what has been demonstrated in the movies that have gone before us.
The E.U takes ideas from the movie and fleshes them out.
So while respecting the E.U as cannon, we have to except that in the movies, if it has not explicitly been included or a character demonstrated to exist, it does not exist.

This is an important point.

By bringing in an array of extended characters as examples of existence or president really only demonstrates existence in the E.U. there is no Complex Equivalence.

So back to the original point.
1. Snoke is a Sith
2. Rule of two never existed.
3. Snoke was one of the first Sith and has been master to many Sith masters. having taught them he then moves on and they establish there own master apprentice relationship with there own pupil.
4. Snoke remaining in the shadows being only answered to by other masters.
5. Having lost palpatine he has now had his hand forced and is training Kylo-Ren. This is the traditional master apprentice relationship that was first practised by the Jedi and has been carried over into the Sith because the Sith were Bourne of the Jedi and still uphold some traditions like master apprentice teaching and the use of a light sabre for combat.

THIS IS WHY SNOKE IS A SITH

 

yep ha also said things about the wrath of Kaan, he lied then and he's lying now.

This is very much so still a debate. As you can see we are all happily still debating of your forum, isn't that the point.
You may decide to not participate in the conversation but why pull the admin knows best trick?
Don't be so dismissive of a interesting topic.

 

But your not participating, your dismissing that theres any validity to the idea and that its a closed topic?

 

Its there job to. to quote you back lol. they have all been sworn to secrecy

Im not sure participating in the closing of the discussion is adding to the discussion. I think it still constitutes just closing the discussion?

 

Yeh, its interesting as to why they would deny he is a Sith. I agree speculation where there was none to begin with is strange way to play it.
But J.J isn't directing this so asking the director of 7 what the director of 8 is doing it really isn't his place to say, he may not even know, though I doubt that?
There is also the possibility that in 7 J.J intended Snoke not to be Sith but Rian has seen it to be more steeped in a history worth preserving.
The ambiguity really plays in 8's favour.
The honest facts though are its 50 50.

 

Why anyone would "Great Post" that is beyond me.
The O.T is a story that resonates with many people, people who feel passionately about the movies, I would imagine thats why they are on here???
Don't confuse the Prequels with the O.T .

Establishing the main Protagonists and Antagonists in the saga movies

Protagonists - Jedi
Antagonists - Sith

Jedi use the force - and Sith use a force.
The Sith originated as a corruption of the Jedi.
The Sith are the diametric opposite of the Jedi.

Significant Fights in the Two Complete Trilogy's.

Jedi's fighting Sith

1. Obi-Wan faces Darth Vader.

2.. Luke faces Darth Vader.

3. Luke refaces Darth Vader.

4. Quigon-Gin faces Darth Maul.

5. Obi-Wan and Quigon-Ginn face Darth Maul.

6. Anakin and Obi-Wan face Count Doku.

7. Yoda faces Count Doku.

8. Obi-Wan and Anakin face Count Doku.

9. Darth Sidious faces Mace Windu.

10. Darth Sidious faces Yoda

11. Darth Vader faces Obi-Wan Kanobi.


Jedi's fighting none Sith

Obi-Wan faces Boba fett.
Anakin and Obi-Wan face General Grevace.

Jedi vs Sith shared trope/theme

Jedi and Sith use a light saber.
Jedi and Sith have a belief in the force.
Jedi and Sith take an apprentice to train.
Jedi and Sith are enemies.

There has also been events where Jedi have been put against a monster type Enemy but as this is a discussion about whether or not Snoke is Sith they fall out side the scope of the traditional villain.

Addressing the "Process of believing"
The "standard analysis" of knowledge in recent philosophy has been of knowledge as "justified true belief." In a "belief," someone mentally assents to some proposition;
This presupposition being snoke to be a Sith.
If this belief is "true," then there is some fact about reality that makes the proposition true;

The facts,
Eleven of the thirteen significant battles in the two complete trilogy’s have been Jedi vs Sith.
Each Sith involved in the battles have conformed to the same villain archetypes.
That is fact.
When a new villain emerges that conforms to the Archetypal Star Wars Villain it is therefore safer to assume him to be a Sith then not, if he meets the criteria.

If the belief is "justified," it means that the believer has some evidence or good reason for the belief.

The majority of enemies of the Jedi have been Sith.
Snoke is a enemy of the Jedi.
Force using master trains force using apprentice.
If the force using master is Good they are called a Jedi - If the force using master is Bad they are called a Sith.
Snoke talks of completing the training of a force user. As Snoke is teaching an apprentice he is the apprentices master.
As Snoke is a master and an enemy of the Jedi I would then say Snoke meets the established criteria of Archetypal Star Wars villain and as such immediately falls in to the category of Sith.

This has been the logic to my argument. An argument based on fact. Not an unfounded belief. For the sake a presenting a well rounded presentation of facts. I have also included.

We do not know if Snoke is a Sith or not, as it is not stated.
This is a discussion thread exploring the pro’s and con’s as to weather he is or is not Sith based on opinion, If we knew definitively he was or wasn’t there would be no discussion.
This is a topic of interest hence the engagement of people and a willingness to discuss the topic.

Public Announcements
J.J Abrams is the director of episode 7
The director has said he and the cast are sworn to secrecy about any and all the plots of Star Wars that have as yet not been resolved.
In a previous movie, J.J Abrams, when asked to reveal facts about as yet undisclosed information with regard to the movie, knowingly mislead the national and international media.

J.J Abram’s movie (episode 7) made no definitive reference as to whether Snoke is or is not Sith.

Rain Johnson is the director of Episode 8 and has made not public comment on snoke.

In Summary
I would go as fas as to say the burden of proof is on the people who dispute that Snoke is a Sith as EVERY force user the jedi have faced in the SAGA movies has been a Sith.
Snoke is more likely to be a Sith then not.

 

1. Read the thread before you try to preach points I have already made myself. This is Quote from page one.
2. I would describe trolling as giving every reasonable point I have made through out this thread a negative trolling clouded or dislike. Over 17 of my last posts.
3. I made this thread no one is forcing you to discuss the subject.
4. Other than say I don't know the EU you have not made a single point of substance.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2016 ---

In the SAGA the concept of none Sith dark side users with force ability doesn't exist though.
so that is actually not an assumption, thats just a fact, if you are bad and can use the force you are Sith.

Do you even no the material your discussion