"You still want to kill me...." What does Kylo Ren mean?

I'm not sure if the scene was meant to be "less threatening." I can easily see JJ and co deciding that the scene needed to be more threatening, so that her turning the tables on him would be all the more satisfying. She's the one who cannot physically move at all, but yet by the end of that scene, he's the one who's almost cowering in a corner scared/shocked by her. Also, it makes his exact interest in her is a bit more ambiguous. And removing Snoke's comments about Kylo's twisted "compassion" for her only makes this even more likely imo.

Of course, it makes some of the earlier dialogue, when he was seemingly trying to put her at ease to a degree, make a bit less sense. Unless the writers later decided that that's NOT what he was actually doing, that it was more just a general questioning. The novel version would have been interesting to see, but the film scene works great as well and I can see the logic for changing it.

 

I think they deliberately kept things less obvious and ambiguous in several scenes...But also, it backfired a bit, because some of the nuances were lost on audience expecting things to be told (telegraphed) to them, and instead they went for the show, don't tell approach, which was noticed by many who are more sensitive to visual storytelling, but mostly lost on audience that is a bit lazy to "read between the lines"...Since these are thought out to be 3 films, things will come in different perspective when we look at them in retrospect and have to reexamine what certain moments actually meant...

 

You're talking about Kylo trying to put her at ease right ?

 

The way that it plays in the film, to me anyway, was far more sinister. Part of it was the way that Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley played it. With her being so clearly terrified of him (to the point of near-tears), trying to turn her head and avoid him as much as possible, while he keeps getting closer. And then Driver's delivery makes it more sinister to. He tells her that he has no idea where her friends are, in a very matter of fact way. More like just answering a question than specifically trying to put her at ease. And asking about BB-8 is less making small talk, and more just a general interrogation question. And then they way that he delivers lines like "you know that I can take whatever I want," or "you're so lonely," combined with removing some of the surrounding dialogue from the novelization, makes it seem much more creepy and sinister in the film. There were multiple people in my theatre who were visibly uncomfortable during that scene and one even whispered "eww" under their breath when he said that line.

Also I read somewhere that JJ had confirmed that the rape subtext was intentional and that Pablo Hidalgo equated Kylo's mind probes to torture (as they are extremely painful).

 

It was a tweet I believe, but don't quote me on that. He essentially called it a mind-rape. And Pablo's comments definitely came from a tweet.

 

I think the whole production and especially JJ kinda tapdanced through a minefield with TFA. Criticisms like he played it a little safe, a little reminiscent, and left things a little ambiguous are a best case scenario for us SW enthusiasts. Tidy work LucasRobot.

Another favourite SW theme of mine and ultimately the Jedi dilemma. CONSENT or use of the FORCE?

Edit: The moment you deprive someone of their freedom without their consent I would call it a form of torture. I see little difference between what Kylo did to Rey and an "arrest". (Kidnapping due to a monopoly on the legitimate use of FORCE.) The fact it is tolerated by a majority makes the force legitimate I guess.

 

I just wonder how Disneh would allow them to go so dark ...

 

Because Disney has shown that they're not above doing that in their films. Heck POTC 3 opens with mass-hangings, dead bodies being carted away with the, well cart full, and the hanging of a child. Maleficient had some really disturbing stuff/subtext in it, etc.

Also according to someone at LF (I forget if it was KK, or JJ, or whoever), when they read Rian Johnson's script for Episode VIII, they were quite surprised that Disney signed off on it, given some of the stuff that's apparently included.

 

Her once-over in that scene was more of a derisive assessment that found him lacking (or rather, "a monster").

Agree. I also agree that the whole interrogation scene was very uncomfortable and intrusive on Ren's part. Not romantic. No one should prowl around someone's thoughts without their consent. Not ok ever.

I've mentioned this before, but Disney has gone pretty darn dark with its Netflix series Jessica Jones (Marvel) (and to a lesser degree, Daredevil). In fact, Jessica Jones is a terrific example of a creepy, would-be seducer using mind control against an unwilling victim. Jessica Jones too has superpowers, which makes her all the more attractive a trophy for Kilgrave, the villain. Great show.

 

Are there other instances of this ?

 

Thanks.

 

There's also Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland which, per Burton, has some messed-up stuff in it as well. Including Crispin Glover's character trying to get a little too "close," to Alice (who coincidentally is around Rey's age, 19/20, in that film) in a few scenes.

The Lone Ranger had him and Tonto visiting a brothel, and one of the villains eating a man's liver, onscreen.

Into the Woods also has some disturbing content/context (even if it was tone down from the original play a bit).

 

Well, JJ also confirmed during a press conference that for him the most disturbing scene from the OT was Vader torturing his own daughter without knowing it so I don't think we can discard them being related just for that.

 

Alas JJ. Are the interviews canon?

Just kidding. Don't know. We might speculate that due to that mention, blood ties might be discarded for good but I guess we will know until December 2017.