"You still want to kill me...." What does Kylo Ren mean?

Interesting. I would consider any use of a person's body (including mind probing) without their express consent as a form of rape (consent being the key here). That being said, I also wouldn't want to de-legitimize any victim who feels that a broader/more succinct use of the term cheapen's their ordeal.

(I noticed there was an outcry when Aspergers was removed from the DSM 5 as some people identified their experiences with the terminology and felt cheated when the "Association" removed the term - it may have affected insurance I don't know. I doubt homosexuals felt the same when homosexual behavior was removed from the DSM's mental illness list.)

 

I don't know, it seems to me that he made an unfortunate comparison. Or maybe since I am a Harry Potter fan that took me to the Occlumency lessons Harry was receiving from Snape and there the concept of "mind-rape" was simply called Legilimency.

 

Fair enough. Yep, my sibling heckling can border on abusive at times. (Although there does seem to be an inferred consent going on.)

I didn't read any sexual [edit: attraction] subtext in the scene so far (only 2X - I'm on a budget here!) although the way this film is crafted it's almost as if the production team are saying "we've left plenty of ambiguity for you enthusiasts to chew on in forums until Episode 8." ...or 9...or maybe even forever.

Note: How refreshing to be able to deftly present different angles and lightly touch on a very heavy topic in a reasonably sensitive manner - it is a credit to this forum.

 

Yeah I'm amazed how that movie (which I loved at the time - incredible soundtrack) can be interpreted to illustrate stockholm syndrome and almost encourage/justify domestic abuse.

 

I think someone can invade your person -- without the sexual aspect.
It's still as violent and as invasive! and can still be considered "rape."

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 27, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 27, 2016 ---

I don't see any abuse in this film being encouraged or justified.

 

But Rey did successfully resist Kylo's mind-violence.

Is she in love with him? Has she even been controlled by him? "Love" isn't exactly the word I would use...

 

I came across this video - I don't necessarily advocate these opinions - but at 19mins or so Dr Carolyn Newberger, Psychologist from Havard Medical School, spends a couple of minutes deconstructing the darker messages in Beauty and the Beast.

 

The screen shot as the thumbnail thing for that video is super creepy lol .

 

To me, it kind of looked like a dirty guerilla style use of the force because they both seemed to be struggling and playing s mental cat-mouse game .

 

I have read this brought up on other forums before.
I actually know exactly from where the "mind rape" quote attributed to JJ "confirming" it comes from. Iti is a 3rd person account a line in a facebook posting of what the dying fan (don't remember his name) felt confused about during watching the scene (he is said to have been on heavy medication and the special screening at his home was stopped numerous times) according to his girlfriend who posted on Facebook a longish post and there was a sentence about how that fan asked JJ about the scene because the fan thought it looked like rape and JJ is said to have agreed (that's a 3rd person retelling of a phone conversation between her boyfriend)...I would personally be very careful to take this as totally genuine comment by JJ and will really take it with a huge pinch of salt. I have read that posting and I'm very dubious about how the wording of JJ could very probably have been misquoted.
Also Pablo Hidalgo response is in general about Kylo interrogating using mind probe. I want to emphasise it is not specific to the scene with Rey.
JJ Abrams would never put intentional rape connotations, no. The fact that many people misinterpret the scene is another thing.
It is due I think to the perception that the majority of the audience has programmed itself to see Kylo Ren as a villain and hence the connotations of the scene change dramatically...
The scene was made with a great tact and subtlety and has not crossed any borders no. While Kylo tortures Poe, and does it without any qualms, he makes all necessary efforts to avoid causing Rey any discomfort. Even without the dialogue that is clearly evident by what is shown.

 

But isn't that in all good stories? The villain gains the upper hand (things look dire for our hero!), until our hero fights their way out?

("Everything's going great" makes for extremely dull stories!)

 

This raises really tricky and interesting areas. I have no idea how one would portray the beauty of a hero attempting to redeem/turn/save a dominating villian while steering clear of setting an poor example for viewers in a abusive relationship. Hmmmm, I guess it's for us to call out and discourage cycles of abuse and not fictional movies.

(Sorry, just thinking aloud here Dave - I don't mean to come across as a didactic @$$h013!)

 

I must admit that until 2 days ago I haven't actually seen Disney's Beauty and the Beast and watched it because I was curious to see how the story is portrayed (I have of course read the original version(s) of the story). What happened is, my jaw dropped when I heard the following part of the first song in the film (Belle's romantic dreams connected to a book she got at a bookstore) that happens in the first minutes of the film.

Belle sings the following and my eyes became like saucers.

"Far off places, daring sword fights, magic spells, a prince in disguise". (1:52)

Wait what?! That's Star Wars our boy dark prince Kylo she is dreaming of!

Then she goes on to sing later as part of the same song:

"Isn't it amazing, it's my favourite part. Because you'll see. Here's where she meets Prince Charming. But she won't discover that it's him till chapter three.". (2:18)

Wait what again?! Chapter 3 aka Episode IX ?

So now, I'm literally thinking what is set up has some very uncanny references to the Beauty and the Beast. Of course that's a coincidence, but what a coincidence!!!

 

Apologies for hijacking this thread when I see @Jadore4 is exploring these issues in The Psychology of Kylo Ren...