After seeing the movie, do you believe Snoke = Darth Plagueis

Hime being a Muun is no lonfer Canon.

 

Snoke is a wise, severely disfigured and injured (literally looks risen from the dead) alien who watched the Empire rise and fall, is steeped in Dark Side knowledge and has an intimate knowledge of the Skywalker family (he knows Kylo has Skywalker blood). His design is extremely close to that of a Muun - 7ft+, skinny, pale - which although no longer canon would likely be a starting point). The music that accompanies him is identical to that used in the Opera Scene in ROTS where Darth Plagueis is spoken about.

Surely the evidence now points to him being Plagueis? If he's not then that is some serious misdirection.

 

I feel like Snoke probably IS Darth Plagueis, the musical cues, the likelihood that the villain isn't pulled out of thin air, how it brings the series full circle, etc. But a lot of that is that I WANT him to be Plagueis. At this point I wouldn't put money on it, but I am leaning that way.

 

The Emperors hologram in TESB was pretty big next to little Vader on his knee's

 

Everyone is busy asking wether he is Plagueis.
If he is, have you asked yourself the question: What does that make the emperor and more importantly - what *is* Plagueis?

#KOTOR #ANCIENTFEAR #JEDIVSZOMBIES

 

No not really. Han and Leia's theme is playing because Rey literally just got back after watching Han get killed and then fighting their son. It's also not just the theme that indicates he's Plagueis. Plenty of other cues were given in the movie and have been mentioned here.

Them saying he's new means just about nothing. To us he is new. Have you ever seen Plagueis in a movie? To paraphrase a long deceased jedi master, "new is a point of view."

Maz also separates the Empire, which was run by two Sith lords, from the Sith. The exact part you're talking about is "the Sith, the Empire, the First Order..." so it doesn't mean much that she mentions them all separately. The First Order is really nothing but the remnants of said empire and their second in command worships a Sith lord's burnt up helmet and he wants to finish what that Sith lord started. Maz would also probably not know anything about Plagueis or much about individual Sith anyways. Plagueis and the rest of the Sith were almost completely unknown to anyone else from Bane to Palpatine, and Plagueis's alter ego wasn't even noticed by anyone to the point that people thought he wasn't real or had died. That's just a reclusive banker, much less a secretive Sith lord. Plagueis would have definitely waited for Palpatine to die off though, since one of his few fears was the prophecy, and he would mock the rule of two because he always hated it and wanted to do away with it.

 

The similarities between the musical score are pretty compelling. I don't find much else relating to this theory to be so, however.

 

No. Why? Because Disney don't want have a real connection with the prequels, you know what I mean)

And it was in the ROTJ, no?)

 

Actually, we know Snoke watched the rise and fall of the empire and is really old. I wonder why he needs to be a Sith. It might be nice to see some other forms of the force.

 

If snoke is plaguies why hasn't he kept with his sith teachings and continued with the rule of one philosophy? Instead creating or aiding a knights of ren faction?.
Maybe to avoid an apprentice becoming more powerful than his master.
I don't buy it though I do not think snoke is plaguies. Maybe a former knight of ren who is a strong dark side force user battle worn.
Maybe the supreme leader saw a an opportunity for galactic power when the old Republic jedi , the sith and the empire damned near wiped themselves out .
Most of the new order are young so an elder would be deemed wise as he watched events in the clone wars and after played out and could learn from these events .

 

color me not impressed (and certainly not convinced).

pray tell, why would ol' Plaggy wait for Palps to die to make his move? and where in canon do we hear that Plagueis "always hated" the rule of two? what stopped him from ignoring this tradition and having more than one apprentice prior to his death?

 

Yes, and Abrams said Khan wasn't the villain in Into Darkness... IF Snoke is Plagueis he's not going to admit it. "Darn it you figured it out... I might as well tell you the rest of the story too"... Doesn't mean that he is Plagueis, but Abrams saying that Snoke isn't means nothing. He's lied before when fans figured it out.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 10, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 10, 2016 ---

And that comes from Palpatine, who also said that Plagueis had learned to cheat death. Plagueis could have allowed Palpatine to believe he had succeeded and waited in the shadows to resurface. Munn or not could have to do with how he is able to cheat death, be it a different body or some distortion of his existing body... or a decision to interpret Plagueis their own way, as his species is not mentioned in the films.

 

To me this is all fairly circumstantial and doesn't really add up. For example, if Plaugeius was "killed" in his sleep by Sheev, then how did he sustain scarring and disfigurement that looks so simular to what Anakin sustained on Mustafar? To me that is a huge clue.

If it is Plaugeis, then why start or be involved in the Knights of Ren? Why not make Ben a Sith instead? Seems really superficial and inconsistant to start a different organization and why did more Sith not do this prior?

Could someone who was relatively close to Vader know of the Skywalker bloodline?

And you are right, he is tall, and skinny, and pale. This points me to a far different candidate.

I know he has been discussed before, but to me, if this is not a Yuzong Vong story line, or an original character entirely which seems logistically and narratively unlikely, then to me it has to be the Grand Inquisitor.

A. We don't know his real name so it can be anything.
B. A connection to Rebels has been teased.
C. He is tall and pale and skinny.
D. He is involved in a non-sith, dark side organization.
E. Inquisitors were rumored for Episode 7 early on
F. He suffered consistant injuries. To me this is an interesting idea also. I feel as though the ST is a reboot of the prequels more than the OT. Many of the ideas I had for a reworked PT are included in Ep 7. I had the thought that Anakin would have been completely submerged in lava, surviving by using a technique that creates a force force field that could have bought him enough to time escape even if he got severly injured, and would have learned from another whom suffered a simular fate. So what if this is how the Inquisitor survived. It is clear that Snoke suffered more serious injuries than suffocation from his regulation Sith pillow.
G. His unique features could have been burned off, masking his identity.
H. Being involved in the Empire, he could have learned of who Vader really was, and become familiar with the Skywalker bloodline.
I. Unlike Plaugeis, he already has a connection to the Empire that could lead to a position of authority in the First Order.

The only reason this might not be true that I can think of is why have all that concept art if you know who Snoke is? Perhaps his identity changed as the story developed.

 

Looks more like lightning damage to me - which ties in with how Sidious would've killed him in his sleep. Possibly.

Several reasons.

1. The Sith order essentially betrayed Plagueis. He would want to start a new order that didn't carry the risk that the Sith Order always cursed it - rule of 2. Plagueis was killed by his apprentice and so would possibly want to create an order where its members were more loyal to the Master.
2. Plagueis would've created the Order whilst the Sith were still around so it makes sense to call it something new.
3. Plagueis wanted to create his own Order with his own ideas and philosophies and not be tied to the ways of the Sith.

I doubt it. Vader never acknowledged his former self and I doubt Luke and Leia paraded the fact their father was the most evil person to have ruled the galaxy.
It strikes me that as Snoke has followed Kylo from birth (which was very close to the events of ROTJ), he must've had an intimate knowledge of the Skywalkers.

I think there is a plethora of evidence that tells us Snoke isn't the Inquisitor. Some of that evidence is also anti-Plagueis. But for instance, Serkis said he is a new character or newly introduced that we haven't seen in the universe before. That could rule out Plagueis although I would argue we have never met him. But it definitely rules out the Inquisitor. On top of that, the Inquisitor had a very different look to the deformed but not utterly transformed Snoke.

Probably best to discuss this further in this thread. You will find many more answers in here:

https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/darth-plagueis-in-the-sequel-trilogy.190/

 

@master_shaitan, thank you for linking the other thread. You're completely right that such in-depth Plagueis talk should go there.

After seeing the movie, I feel as though I have no more evidence now than I did before that Snoke is Plagueis. The music cue is interesting, but it could also be misleading. Rather than it being Plagueis' theme, it could be the theme for the "call to the Dark Side," or some such thing.

 

Indeed. It's also similar to when Dooku meets Sidious at the end of AOTC. Could just be a Dark Side them, like you say.
But I think there is still enough out there to keep the Plagueis candle burning but it does look more likely to be a new character.
I however think that Plagueis would be a better fit for the saga.

 

If he is not plagueis, it gonna take a lot of explaining to position this guy in the preview trilogies chronology if he is so powerful and so old, where he was or what was he doing when Anakin fell to the darkside or when he was redeemed? holding a bucket of popcorn with pjs and DVRing the top events with the use of the force?

He suddenly decided to act? i think a crazy crazy theory might come up with, like he is Kylo Ren from the future.

Or he is a Darth Vader clone gone wrong.

But Plagueis would make most sense and be easier to explain.

Occan Razor's

 

There will need to be explaining no matter which way they go.