For those who have seen the movie, do you like it or hate it?

What rules? It's fiction, it isn't real.

 

But old novels like Darksaber that pushing Star Destroyers out of a system with Force, or ability to clone force ability was more acceptable?

 

Arguing about the "rules" of a fictional world is like arguing about whether or not you want ketchup or mayonnaise with your French fries (ketchup btw).

It's a discussion no one can win.

 

You can't contain the force and say it can't do this or that. The Jedi existed for tens of thousands of years before Qui-Gon learned, "Hey guys... WE CAN BE FORCE GHOSTS!!!!!!!" New abilities are always being discovered and learned.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

Just a few things that changed for me on second viewing.

- The character of DJ. I liked him the first time around strictly for his look and mannerisms but man the guy has some gems, especially when he's talking to Finn. He made the most of the short amount of time he had on screen.

- Leia flying through space. The first time I watched I was kind of in awe of it all, unfortunately that wore off just a bit on second viewing. I still don't mind that she actually did it, it's just visually weird to look at, at least in my opinion.

- Rose kissing Finn. Again this is something I didn't mind on first viewing but on the second I found it INCREDIBLY cringeworthy. I get the intent behind it, Rose is enamored with Finn and it's more puppy love than real lovey love but still, the build up and immediate aftermath made me cringe, maybe that's how we're supposed to feel?

- The ENTIRE final 15-20 minutes. When I went on Thursday and saw this I had absolutely no idea what was going on and because of that I had no real emotional interest in what was happening. But boy did that change. Knowing now what's actually happening it's such a powerful moment. Combine Luke's final scenes with that amazing John Williams score and I came the closest I've ever come to crying at a Star Wars film. It really is beautifully done.

- A small thing that changed is, when I first saw it one big problem I had is how Luke handles being given back the lightsaber for the first time. That probably was my #1 complaint... but it didn't bother me nearly as much this time around and I really don't know why.

 

Of the many problems I have with TLJ the biggest may be that RJ has completely lowered the stakes and dramatic tension going forward. What peril could Rey ever be in? It’s now canon that she can survive in space (see Leia space walk), when one dies they can still show up and interact with the world (see Yoda and his lightning powers), you can now follow anyone thru hyperspace so there is no escaping (eliminating any ESB-like drama about the Falcons hyperdrive not working - it doesn’t matter now)

Why is Snoke dead and gone? Why can’t he just manifest as a ghost and kick Kylo’s butt now? Why can’t he just show up at the next Resistance base and create havoc with lightning?

It seems like in trying to upend some SW “rules” RJ and the story group were like kids on a sugar high and lot track of any sense of the implications of their story.

I realize this is all just made up fiction and I’m more than willing to suspend some internal logic (the entire “plan” to save Han from Jabba), but I feel like TLJ took place in an entirely different universe from the prior films.

 

I absolutely love this movie. After my fifth viewing it went up from a 9.5/10 to a 9.7/10. And I'm going to say it: it is just as good as ESB, if not better. Why? Better cinematography, editing, acting, plotstructure and characters. It has more layers to it, more depth. It is just better, my heart tells me because that's what we all should say, that I should like ESB more. But I feel that is no longer the case. I firmly believe that.

Only the soundtrack/original score was for reasons I will explain later, well below ESB. The soundtrack is not bad. The existing themes and original score works perfectly fine in the movie itself, and adds significantly to the experience. Just.......too many scherzo's. They're easy to write, but also a bit boring. .

Also the only scene I don't really like is Leia's superman moment. But the implications of it as well as the way it was shot and edited was wonderful. Noticed the camera focusing in on Billy Lourd when that happens?.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

Exactly.

 

Seriously? Jedi have done way more unbelievable things in canon novels, books, comics, TCW, Rebels etc! Not to mention the EU... The most absurb was Yoda's ghost seting the tree on fire, but don't forget that this happened in a sacred place of the Jedi, where the Force is obviously stronger...

I didn't like Leia's scene also, but all she did was a simple Force pull, nothing strange there, since she survived the blast...

 

I actually liked Poe' arc in this film. I was slightly iffy about it at first, but Holdo and he grew on me. Actually the whole resistance storyline apart from Canto Bight and weird DJ voice have grown on me a lot on the last few days. Light speed through ships is one of my favourite visual moments now as well. Those ten second of silence really sold the wham effect of it.

Poe had a great character progression. Going from being the "needless hero" to "caring about lives and realising sometimes subtle actions, and running to fight another day is the right answer" especially in war. Great contrast with start and end of film with him, from bombers to Crait.

 

Leia's resurrection and surviving in space: mysterious, but the physics in Star Wars are quite different from those in the real scientific world.

Rey and Kylo's telepathic conversations: those are already in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Nothing new here, just more of them and now with a more immediate narrative purpose.

Luke's projection: this was new yes, it means that Luke is indeed more powerful than any Jedi ever before, as promised. No one can do it, only he.

Yoda's lighting: Yoda is one with the force, meaning he is the force. The lightning killed the tree, but not the books. Rey has them on the falcon.

 

I remember those edits for the prequels!! Does that person still do them?? Who is that person? Where can their work be found?? How do they not get sued into oblivion? I ask that last question because I would kind of like to make my own "anti-cheese" edit for this movie one day..... but I don't want to get sued. =)

Sorry, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. If not, can you link??

 

I'm assuming she used her magical teleport powers to escape that fiery inferno. Only logical way.

 

Yeah, I appreciated Poe's arc. He was clearly being groomed from a one dimensional 'fly-boy' into a potential future leader, although, I don't know if I could ever buy him as anything more than a Captain. Admiral Ackbar and Vice-Admiral Holdo 4life, RIP.

 

I saw the major spoilers beforehand and thought: "Oh God this is beyond terrible, force projection?! This is blasphemous to the lore and disrespectful to Lucas and the original characters."

But then I saw it, and the more I think of it.. the more I see how things had to go this way. I mean, Luke's one of the greatest Jedi to ever live (possibly better than Yoda) so the force projection thing wasn't completely ridiculous.. he did kill himself in the process. If we never see anyone pull this off again in the saga (and they have to sacrifice themselves to do it) I think it'll be a great way to show how powerful and important Luke was.. a great send off. Don't let future writers make things ridiculous, keep TLJ special.

 

I am really amazed how many people ive read criticize Yoda destroying the books. It's a minor point and no one's biggest complaint. But he says to Luke "there is nothing in that tree the girl does not already possess" and we see them on the Falcon. At least know what's in the movie I'd you are going to trash it.

 

I'm actually sad for it. It was meant to be a powerful moment, doubly so with Carrie's passing, but "superman Leia" has turned it into a mocking moment for me. People in my theatre laughed at it.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

I loved that moment, and I now understand why Yoda was laughing like a maniac as he struck the tree down.

 

I enjoyed the TLJ more in my second viewing. I was so shocked at some of the twists in the first viewing that I couldn't assess how I felt about the movie. I really liked the new characters of Holdo and Rose. I am still not sure if I like DJ or not. I can't wait to see this movie a couple more times in its theatrical run.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

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I swear I am the only one who liked the "Superman Leia" scene. RIP

 

If they'd shot it better. I'd like it too. The hand outstretched just ruins it.

 

I LOVED TLJ!

 

When people ask me what I thought of STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI, my standard line has been:

“When I liked it, I LOVED it, but when I didn’t like it, I HATED it.”


CHARACTERS
Much could be said about how Luke was handled, but I think no matter which version of Luke showed up on screen, there’s no way RJ could ever possibly compete with the “headcanon” that members of the fandom have been dreaming up and developing since SW:ROTJ. I get it: Luke Skywalker a broken man who wants to “break the wheel”, and though this isn’t how I’d have portrayed him, at least we got to see him do some cool stuff. That “Astral-Luke” thing? LOVED IT.


The biggest complaint I have is there were new characters introduced --- specifically Vice Admiral Haldo --- who was completely unnecessary when there were other, well-established characters who easily could have not only fulfilled her storyline, but done it BETTER, while providing a proper “close out” to character arcs. When the bridge of the ship explodes and a bunch of people (including Leia) are blown out into space, I didn’t even realize Akbar was gone until some other character flat out says it offhandedly. It was such an afterthought. I mean, maybe I’m wrong, but how cool would it have been for us to have had Akbar --- someone we know --- take over for Leia, get in Poe’s face, and then sacrifice his life to save the Resistance? RJ effectively did to Akbar what my mom did to my pet goldfish: flushed him down the toilet. And I HATED this.


STORY VS. SCENES
Thinking about this movie, there are several scenes that were brilliantly shot, and probably will go down as my favorites in the series: the shots of Ach-To, the explosion of The Supremacy when VA Haldo jumps to hyperspace into it, the scene with Luke and R2D2 on the Falcon, and even the Canto Bite shots. And that scene in the Throne Room with the Praetorian Guards?! I LOVED all of these things…


But telling a story and showing someone scenes are two completely different things. I just feel like these scenes were all over the place, and the “wipes” from what was going on in the fleet to Ach-to, to Canto Bite, to whatever the heck else was happening just felt really clumsy. There wasn’t a narrative that was deep enough for me to really sink my teeth into until around half way through the movie, and so much of the story time --- when we could have fleshed out Luke’s regretful actions, Kylo’s mental state, Rey’s training --- was sacrificed so that we could have a 20 minute “aside” on a casino planet. And I HATED that.


COMEDY
Is it me, or was anyone else worried that the Resistance fleet would be saved by the GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY? So much of the humor felt more “MARVEL UNIVERSE” than it did “STAR WARS GALAXY”. And don’t get me wrong, I was totally okay with some of the gags --- Luke whacking Rey’s hand with the blade of grass, the gags with Chewie and the porgs, and even that moment when Hux was about to shoot Kylo Ren --- but overwhelmingly, the comedy in this movie felt overly cartoonish.


But that opening with Poe and the “I’m holding for General Hugs” thing? My stomach actually TURNED. It was AWFUL. It went on for WAY TOO LONG and I also think it undercut the action that would happen only moments later, with so many of the Resistance sacrificing their lives.


REY AND KYLO
What redeemed many of the not-so-good parts of the movie was the dynamic built up by Rey and Kylo. I bought everything that was being sold tome with regard to their built-up trust, as well as that scene in Snoke’s chamber.


I’m not one of those “Rey is a Mary-Sue” people, so I suppose there wasn’t much that needed to be done to get me to love her, but I honestly really just liked her character throughout the movie. This isn’t to say I didn’t have an issue --- I really think there should have been more training with Luke for her to have developed skills to the point where, later on, I wouldn’t have any issue with her lifting rocks. How about giving us a 4-second scene with her lifting rocks earlier in the movie, to provide context?



I’ve only seen the movie once, with plans to see it again on Saturday. I’m hoping, knowing what I know, that I’ll be able to go into it and follow the “larger” story being conveyed (“Failure is the best teacher”, “Move past guilt”, etc.) rather than getting caught up on the gags and characters I didn’t like.