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SPECULATION Force Ghosts

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by theborgv, May 5, 2015.

  1. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    I mostly agreed with you. I think it would be rather contrived and sub-par story telling. But since I think it is slightly less dumb than you think it is, now I'm the reason all films suck in hollywood?

    The logical reason that makes sense for qui-gon to have one line to Luke would be if they want to have a scene with Luke hearing voices of obi-wan, anakin, yoda and qui-gon training him how to become one with the force.
     
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  2. Darth Sidious

    Darth Sidious Rebel Official

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    If Plagueis appears, it would mean that Qui-Gon and Plagueis discovered opposite forms of immortality. The parallel would be interesting. Another parallel between Qui-Gon and Plagueis is that they're both progenitors of the Jedi and Sith seen throughout the movies.
     
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  3. Itsnotimportant

    Itsnotimportant Rebel Commander

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    Ya but that's not a logical reason and I already demonstrated why.

    It makes no sense at all from a story telling perspective, it only makes sense as an excuse to sell more action figures.

    No matter how they do it, the character is inexplicably interacting with Luke who has no idea who he is. That's why it makes no sense.
     
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  4. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    In your opinion YOU think you demonstrated "why"...for your reasoning. (Elmer Fudd voice)..."vewwwy carefuwwwy" here. :) Others have their reasoning and opinions....respect that.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2015 ---
    Run....RUN!!!!!!!!
     
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  5. Kit Fisto

    Kit Fisto Rebel Trooper

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    Man i was just about to say something like this! That is the only way i could see Qui-Gon in any ST film (personally i think the scene would fit better in EpVIII) and i would love to see Luke getting taught by yoda with the other force ghosts watching on. They might even be able to take the actual footage of OT Alex Guinness force ghost and insert it in the movie if they don't have him say anything.
     
  6. Darth Holmes

    Darth Holmes Rebel Official

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    Look the guy may be overly snarky, but he's absolutely right and made a well reasoned explanation why Qui-gon showing up makes zero sense. I'm truly surprised people are willing to argue over this.
     
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  7. Jar Jar Darklighter

    Jar Jar Darklighter Clone Trooper

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    I don't think it's like being in "limbo." My understanding from the Clone Wars series is that force ghosts are jedi who have been able to retain their individuality after dying and becoming "one with the force." I think Qui-Gon was the first one to learn this, and he taught it to Yoda, who taught to Obi-Wan. I'm not sure how Vader/Anakin learned but it's possible after he saw Obi-Wan dissapear in A New Hope (something he had probably never seen before), he did his own research and somehow learned how to become a force ghost. You'll have to ask George Lucas about that one.

    I think you may be right. Perhaps once Luke brought balance to the force it became "dormant" and one of the results was the departure of the force ghosts. It's very possible that the last time a force ghost appeared was on the forest moon of Endor. That could also mean that with the force's "awakening" we could see their return.

    I wonder if Yoda. Obi-Wan, or Anakin were able to teach Luke how to become a force ghost?
     
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  8. Itsnotimportant

    Itsnotimportant Rebel Commander

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    It really isn't. In no way shape or form does having two main characters who have never been acquainted suddenly being very acquainted not create a plot hole.

    This isn't complicated stuff. Seriously. Maybe stick to telling people what is or isn't acceptable in your own profession. Right this moment you're failing screenwriting 101 and I'm not attacking you personally. You definitely have no expertise in this field and have no idea what you are talking about at all, if you think that something like this without significant explanation would not cause story problems.

    That's not an opinion buy a basic guide to writing a narrative and learn. But at least stop insulting me and telling me
    you Mr. Obviously don't understand basic narrative screenwriting know what you're talking about at all.

    No ficition isn't that subjective human beings have been at this for well over several thousand years, there most definitely positively indisputably is excepted theorem on how this works.

    By your logic a film noir detective story could very well be a comedy because you laughed the whole way through. Not how it works chief.

    This isn't about what you like or not. Just because it wouldn't bother you for Qui-Gon to just show up teaching Luke, doesn't mean that it does not in fact create story problems.

    What it means is that is doesn't bother you that the filmmakers were so lazy they never even established any connection between Luke and Qui-Gon and yet there is one.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2015, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2015 ---
    Thank you. Seriously I wouldn't come off as so mean if the majority of replies I'm alerted to weren't this kind of stuff.

    This is really basic stuff and I'm literally having people purely bsing me telling me I'm wrong. How would you respond?

    You guys don't deserve a kind response for being arrogant and trying to water things down to a matter of opinion thinking you could just be right when you really are objectively wrong. Seriously stop it. It's not the end of the world.

    How you feel about a piece of fiction is the only thing about it that's subjective. Everything else is very deliberately plotted out, or not and it gets criticized for it.
     
    #48 Itsnotimportant, Jun 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2015
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  9. Darth Zloi

    Darth Zloi Dark Moogle of the Sith

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    I've heard some say that we most likely won't see Obi-Wan because Sir Alec Guiness played the older version and Force Ghost. It would be strange to see him then appear as the younger version. Like, "Yeah ... the lady Force Ghosts weren't digging the snowy beard, so I decided to trade in for my younger digs."

    But would anybody be upset if they made up Ewan McGregor to look like the older version? At least he's played the character. It wouldn't be the same as another actor, say playing a younger Han Solo.
     
  10. DjChubakka

    DjChubakka Rebel Official

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    If Qui-gon can appear to Luke, then why not ANY force ghost? Hell, he could meet with the entire Ghost Jedi council. Force Ghost Jedi could just pop in whenever they wanted. :rolleyes:
     
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  11. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    No it isn't. All aspects of film making are subjective. There are no objectively right times to cut, or objectively right angles to shoot at. The definition of opinion is pretty straightforward. What "makes sense" to one person may not "make sense" to another.

    Humor is also super subjective. You've never met people that had a different sense of humor?

    If Luke dies, why can't we get a scene mirroring ROTJ where he waves goodbye to the new cast then walks off to join the other force ghost?

    It isn't a Fact that this is stupid. It might be your opinion that this is stupid.
     
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  12. Darth Holmes

    Darth Holmes Rebel Official

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    Regardless of whether "stupid" is opinion or fact, Qui-Gon appreaing as a force ghost in the NT still doesn't make much sense.

    Yoda is by far the most likely candidate to appear as a force ghost in the NT.
     
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  13. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

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    something we've heard time and time again is that they're going to be focusing on the new characters, with less emphasis being given to the OT characters. with that having been said, why would they give emphasis to even older characters that are in no way connected to the new characters? it doesn't really add up. i mean, anything's possible, there could be a whole ghost Jedi council for all we know, but... yeah... it doesn't really add up.
     
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  14. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Alright, try this one on for size, "Chief."

    I personally don't think it makes much sense for Qui-Gon to appear to Luke, unless another Force ghost makes the introduction... "Luke, there is someone here I think you should meet in case Kylo Ren cuts you down..." But even then, I don't like the idea.

    However, there is canon precedent for just this happening. In the last season of Rebels, Yoda's voice appears to Ezra in the Jedi temple on Lothal during his trials. Unless I totally missed something, they had never before met or had a relationship.

    So before you go spouting off on another of your typical I-am-right-you-are-wrong rants, maybe you should fully educate yourself. Now you can argue all you want about whether they should have done that in Rebels (an opinion), but it does not eliminate the possibility or the precedent (a fact) that it could occur again with Qui-Gon speaking to Luke the same way.
     
    #54 Dark Toilet, Jun 4, 2015
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  15. Darth Holmes

    Darth Holmes Rebel Official

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    But you're comparing apples to oranges. At least Yoda and Ezra are alive at the same time, and in the same era. There would be a 50 + year time difference if Qui-Gon were to appear to Luke in the NT. Still makes no sense.

    You can argue the feasibility all you want. But at the end of the day its semantics. You both agree you don't like the idea. Upping the snark ante with more snark isn't going to win you any arguments.

    Let's move on...
     
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  16. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Calling out a snarky holier-than-thou attitude with documented facts does not equate to further snark... unless you take offense to me calling him "chief" after he used it. In which case, fair enough.

    But you are right, maybe it does come down to semantics, which are highly subjective and there is no right or wrong answer as much as someone wants there to be. The question is, can a Force ghost appear or talk to a living person they have never met? We have evidence of a Force user speaking to another he has never met from across the cosmos. Not much different. Should they? Both of these questions are a matter of opinion which is the whole point of this debate.

    And I agree, let's move on without the snark (which is all anyone around here has ever wanted).
     
    #56 Dark Toilet, Jun 4, 2015
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  17. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    While I don't think we are going to see any force ghosts at all, I don't see the idea of Luke hearing Qui-Gon's voice to be far fetched at all (I only mentioned his voice because it seems Qui-Gon didn't fully learn the force ghost technique and only managed to appear visually on Mortis as far as I remember). We have seen evidence of Qui-Gon speaking to Yoda and Kenobi and watching over Anakin even after decade of his death so I don't see how 50+ years will make a difference for an immortal ghost. It's true that Luke never met Qui-Gon in life but let's remember Luke is Anakin's son and the last remaining Jedi knight at the end of ROTJ, I don't see why it would seem weird for Qui-Gon to communicate with him like the other force ghosts. I mean let's face it Luke and those 4 force ghosts are the only thing remaining from the jedi order at that point, I think communication between any of them is perfectly plausible. And let's not forget Luke is getting older as well, why couldn't Yoda send him to Qui-Gon for immortality classes? He did teach Obi Wan to commune with him instead of teaching him himself.
     
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  18. Clayman515

    Clayman515 Rebel Commander

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    Am I the only person who wouldn't be bothered by seeing a Hayden Christensen force ghost?
     
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  19. Darth Holmes

    Darth Holmes Rebel Official

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    Probably ;)
     
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  20. alex

    alex Rebel Official

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    I couldn't agree more. I don't think it will happen, or is even a good idea, but it makes more than "no sense".

    Since ghost were in ROTJ, I wouldn't be against seeing them in EP9.
     
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