Has your TLJ opinion changed dramatically over time?

I've come to hate it even more passionately.

 

This also fits in perfectly with Star Wars. This has been a thread for most of the films. There are fairly simple concepts. "Rebellions are built on hope." "A New Hope." "A spark of hope."

 

No, I still love it.

 

This is pretty encouraging...

 

That was a surprise to me. I thought most of the fans would prefer TFA over RO and TLJ.

 

It also goes against this idea that the "hardcore fans" don't like The Last Jedi.

 

My opinion has not changed. My dislike of the last jedi has nothing to do with the quality of the movie. Their are differences in opinions between RJ and myself that will keep me away from this movie for a long time. I still love Star Wars but this is a movie my family has banned me from watching because of how angry it makes me every time. It's like religion or politics, our differences aren't likely to change any time soon but I can respect that this is your opinion and it doesn't match mine. So no my opinion is not changed.....yet

 

It's hard to say. Just as I question the validity in any backlash, I question your comment. I don't like TLJ and I'm here, but am I the norm, or the exception? We really don't know. If I'm the exception and most hard core fans who don't like TLJ no longer partake in forums, then polls on forums don't shed a heck of a lot of light on anything other than the opinion of those on the forums now. If you're hyped by the new direction of SW, you're more likely to come to the forums to discuss what excites you. As much as haters come on mass, it's usually short lived and they move on.

I would think most people who disliked TLJ has probably moved on by now. There's plenty of sci-fi or fantasy out there to satisfy them. I can't speak for everyone else who's here an dislike's TLJ, but for me, I'm here because I'm hoping 9 somehow salvages the ST (for me) or hope that the spinoff movies gives me some good stories in the GFFA. I'm well past the ranting stage of my anger lol... if you view my posts the last month or so (probably more), it's been pretty neutral.

 

I wish they would, but the most active thread is "I hate The Last Jedi" and people are still harassing Rian Johnson any anyone notable on twitter when they say they like the film.

This probably explains it. If you Star Wars is this important to a person then when a person doesn't like a story choice it's gonna be ugly.

 

You've pretty much nailed the nail on the head.....

 

You're probably right about SW being like politics and religion.

I don't have twitter, but I'm assuming that when someone posts something, it kind of follows your interests, so if you've vented about TLJ or SW, and someone says how great this or that was, a "hater" could easily get sucked back in and feel compelled to reply.

I haven't counted, but probably half the posts on there are from people who like TLJ, and most of the other half of the posts are probably replies to those who loved the movie lol. Off the top of my head, thinking of people's nicks, I'm guessing it's mostly the same 20-30 people on there rehashing the same old arguments about different parts of the movie with only a hand full of exceptions.

 

There are plenty of people who didn't like the movie who are reasonable about what they don't like and can discuss the film rationally. However, this forum has had a huge influx of people who just want to spread negativity. I suspect they'll either burn out or eventually get tired of talking to each other because it's easy to ignore them.

 

To be fair, there were far more lovers in the hate thread than haters in the love thread.

 

To be fair, that thread is still going strong and all the lovers were told to leave that safe space.

 

That's why I said "were" !

 

Hmmm, I wonder by what basis one would exclude certain posters on a forum thread for discussion as long as the discussion is respectful, on topic, and well-intentioned?

I chip in every now and again in both threads!
How much hate or love does one need to have to participate in these threads and how is this tested?
I claim to be a lover but have some strong dislikes too - do I qualify to participate in either?
Ahhhh, mind-melt!



Maybe these threads were created to make the rest of the forum a safe space - a space safe from mindless adoration and pointless vitriol.

 

I still have mixed feelings about the film. That hasn't changed. There are things I really like (the visuals, new alien species/worlds, Poe, cast performances, some pretty neat scenes) and I still dislike the same elements about it. (Luke's fate, treatment of Poe,Canto Bight 'splaining/bad writing, Rey's reveal, female=flawless,the handling of Finn's arc and Rose's character.)

I've grown a little more unhappy with Poe's treatment and found a little more to appreciate about the visuals and effects. Every time I see a clip about the "making of" the film I find something new to appreciate and consider.

 

I was shoked after the first viewing but loved it.
And my love for the movie has only gotten bigger with evey time i watch it.

 

I mean, I guess?...

But I don't really see where the conversation goes from there. Poe held a mutiny- I think most people agree that was wrong and poorly executed.

But even if you think Holdo may have benefitted from telling Poe the plan, I guess all we can do is shrug and say "Well, she didn't, and she didn't owe him anything."

This thing has just been so blown out of proportion, and I really don't see why it's such a controversial part of the story. It's hardly the first time someone in a leadership role took on full responsibility and hid information from their followers- it's just in this case, that leader isn't the primary protagonist the audience is likely to associate with.

I was expecting the Sequel Trilogy fans to split the vote between TFA and TLJ, paving the way for Rogue One (which, if I remember early in the poll, was the case for at least a while).

 

There was an episode in star trek TNG that reminded me of the Holdo/Poe interaction. Picard (who'd be Leia) is gone to Cardassia and gets captured, meanwhile on the Enterprise they have a new captain (in this case Holdo) that no one knows and he's generally disliked by the crew. Riker doesn't get along with this new captain (Riker would be Poe) and the crew seems more likely to want to follow Riker. It falls short of a mutiny (although if memory serves, it's discussed) and Picard comes back, but yeah, it has a similar feel to that. When someone replaces someone as great as Leia (or Picard), it's hard to fill those shoes, by making that person ambiguous and possibly a double agent, you'll side with the character you're more familiar with. In Star Trek, it doesn't turn on its head like in TLJ and make the new captain a hero, but it does sympathize with him somewhat. The stakes were never as high either though.

My only conclusion (and head canon) is that Holdo isn't much of a people person. The fact that Poe doesn't know her in a relatively small resistance has me thinking she's an intelligence type agent or strategist who advises Leia, but doesn't interact much with the crew (possibly due to a lack of people skills or not wanting to form attachments). She has the education and intelligence to be a good leader, but lacks the experience and people skills of command. Either she doesn't recognize her short comings, or (somewhat foolishly) doesn't think them important.

The sad thing with Holdo, is that the way her character comes across (at least to me) is a double negative. One, we're not sure if she's one of the good guys, and two, she comes off as somewhat entitled and expects to be followed without doing any of the work (at least work visible to the crew, but that's as much on her as anything else). I think she could have worked with more time to mesh her out, but they rushed her out of the gate. I personally found her ambiguity and animosity toward Poe and her becoming a hero at the end (basically telling the viewers "Gotcha!") kind of cheap.

Edit: It comes down to this again. I think TLJ could have been great as a 10-12 episode TV series like GOT, but in a 2hr 30 min movie, RJ was too ambitious with complex side stories that he couldn't dedicate enough time to so as to flesh them out enough to make them believable (think RotS before CW series, but on more fronts than just Anakin). It requires fans to make huge leaps in movie, make some pretty big and somewhat complex assumptions to make things fit. My fear in doing this is that it's essentially creating head canon, and at some point they can turn that on our heads and blame us on misinterpreting things.