Haters gonna hate.

Almost every person i've seen HATING the film has been one of those entertainment nazi guys..

You know.... the guy at your work who always looks disgusted when you say the reasons why you liked a movie... hates everyone elses' music tastes.. always has to be different and appear intellectual 24/7..

They're the worst. Get away from them.

 

Welcome to the Cantina. This is a great place for many different type of opinions and discussion about them and I respectfully disagree with the points in your post (as I suspect you will with my response but that is what makes this place great). So here we go.

1. Kylo stopping the laser bolt when nobody before has- I don't have a problem with it. It is a new force ability. It is cool and fascinating. I think it would become quite dull if we never see new force abilities and only have the abilities we have seen before. Just because he did it and nobody else has does not mean he is super powerful. He likely did not come up with this on his own. Luke may have discovered how to do it and taught it to him before he turned. It is also possible that Snoke taught it to him
2. Not blocking Chewie's blaster bolt-simple. He was emotionally, mentally, and physically distracted after killing his father. He never saw it or sensed it coming. He is a Skywalker so he is strong but he is not fully trained this the distraction is costly to him
3. Not tossing Finn into tree like Rey- 1. He did not want to kill Rey. He knows she is strong with the force and as we see later wants to train her so he subdues her by knocking her out 2. He is not afraid of Finn, and wants to make him pay for betraying the FO so he takes him on.
4. Not beating Rey-a common complaint. I would agree with this if it was a full strength Kylo. However, he took a gut shot by a bowcaster. He was an emotional wreck after killing his dad and was also injured by Finn. Take into account my point above that he was not wanting to kill Rey yet she wants him dead after seeing him kill Han and possibly kill her only friend, Finn. She only gets the upper hand after she truly gives in to the Force. She had already been established as being strong with the force and he is weakened. She is raw when it comes to the Force. She will need training to better learn how to use it, and more importantly how to control her emotions
5. Jedi mind trick- stormtroopers strong willed? They are any thing but strong willed. The movie did not establish him as strong willed. She attempted the mind trick. She did not successfully use the force to do it and the stormtooper mocked her for trying to convince him to let her go. He was not strong willed. It took her a few tries to figure out how to actually do it.

I know there are some who don't like Rey being able to use the Force without training. However Luke did. He had no training except for taking a few training ball blasts in the butt, yet he made a 1 in a million shot without a computer by relying on the Force. Characters strong in the Force can do extraordinary things. Rey was no different then Luke and Anakin before her.

 

I've watched Hans death scene multiple times and when Kylo kills his father he does not become distraught. He had a look of relief on his face because he believed that what little compassion he had for his father kept him from completely embracing the Darkside. He actually was quite pleased after he impaled his dad with his Lightsaber. He knew Chewie was posted above him and Han because Han signaled for Chewie to lower his bow caster. There was no logical reason for him to be caught off gaurd. There was no logical reason for Finn to give him trouble when Finn couldn't even beat a Fellow storm trooper in a melee fight. There is no logical reason for Rey to out of the blue be able to use a Jedi Mind Trick and a Force pull. Luke had training and experience as a pilot prior to the first death star battle. His childhood friend Biggs and Obi wan commented on how he was known on Tatooine for having good piloting and shooting skills. He also had help from Hans and Obiwans spirit in that fight so unlike Rey Luke did not do it alone. As a matter of Fact even in ROTJ Luke was a mediocre Jedi knight at best. Anakin was the Chosen one born of the force so unlike Rey he is suppose to be freakishly strong in the Force because he is the Corporeal form of the force.

 

No idea what this is, but I like it.

 

The weird thing is the time passed to bash a movie ... There is much movie I don't like, I don't go on forums, Youtube to bash it, this is incredible.

 

I guess that it somehow works like someone's favourite team. It is the same passionate love for Star Wars that make people thing that they can actually have a credible opinion about everything, whine about everything, fight with people who believe the opposite. It is not just a simple movie... It's a whole universe with millions of fans and every single one of them has his own view on Star Wars...

I've seen people even saying that they felt betrayed from TFA!! Seriously people? Ok you didn't like it, I get it, but betrayed????

 

Just because Kylo stopped one blaster bolt doesn't mean he will stop every projectile fired at him from now on. He used his light saber to deflect Rey's blaster shots. I've never stabbed my father in the chest with a light saber, but I can only imagine I'd be a little preoccupied emotionally right after even if I was relieved. If you've ever accomplished something unequivocal or had an adrenaline rush/endorphin rush, that elated feeling can consume you for a second. I think we have all forgiven Kylo's lack of awareness on that one. As for Finn, just because he got a lucky shot on Kylo with the light saber means nothing: Kylo has his guts bleeding out and FInn just saw a friend get murdered right before his eyes; I think JJ Abrams got the point across to me. And Finn got his ass kicked by a wounded Kylo Ren, simple. Ass. Kicked. In a coma last we saw.

Now, Rey did mind trick a Storm Trooper, maybe the director of the movie is trying to hint that maybe this girl has latent power far beyond what we've seen? I've stated before, she wasn't that impressive with the light saber either, she stood zero chance till the Force "awakened" in her at the cliffs edge, and even then she was sloppy, if it wasn't for the Force helping her out she'd be absent in Episode VIII. And Luke may have had Obi Wan whispering in his ear, but Luke had like 3 minutes of training with a remote. Luke's piloting skills? He was what, 19, 20? I'm sorry, a farmer that's an expert X-Wing pilot? Nope. Luke had no real training and was definitely not a fighter like Rey. Luke got punked twice before leaving Tatooine in ANH, once by a Tusken Raider and then by pig face guy in the Cantina. But guess what...I bought off on Luke's accomplishments and I bought off on Rey's/Finn's, why? I love the story that is Star Wars and I chose to. I did not buy off on the prequels at all. I loved the stories, but the movies were just not for me, just like TFA is not for you and I respect that. You're opinion isn't wrong and you have good points all around but I just have a different point of view, so don't take this the wrong way.

 

Exactly! Those people need to get a life ...and a new hobby.

 

Oh I am not taking it the wrong way. You have every right to voice your views and opinions so no problem here. I guess I was trying to express that I felt TFA does not follow the continuity of the previous six Canon films it is suppose to be a sequel to. Every Fantasy story has rules and limitations that all characters must work within and around and Kylo, Rey and Finn were all over the place. Luke always won his victories by the skin of his teeth. The only thing he was above average at was piloting and that was because he had plenty of practice defending his uncles farm from giant Womprats and flying his T-16 skyhopper, which controls are like those of a X-wing. Biggs, his childhood friend and imperial academy trained pilot of the rebel alliance, told his squadron commander Luke was just as capable as he and any other fighter pilot the fleet had. Obi Wan who lived a hermits life away from civilization even heard of Luke's skills.Luke was always quoted at being a good shot and pilot.

 

Even if you're right don't post things like that you will get flak to hell and back.
Maybe a different opinion was accepted on this board "before the dark times before the empire"

 

looks like some chunky dude walking on old style Mario bros bricks.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 8, 2016 ---

Hate TFA? No that's impossible, noooooo that's not true!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 8, 2016 ---

TFA was epic, how can anyone hate it? If you hate it then you got you head stuck up your butt, and still sore over Lucas screwing your boyhood dreams. Get real!

 

So Unseen, Han Solo appears to be a coward, dead beat dad, and bad or poor smuggler? Is this based on actual dialogue, what was actually shown in the movie or novel, or did you fill in the "unseen" gaps in the negative way that you perceived it, before we actually get any additional information? Let's take a look at what was actually said and shown SO FAR...

We know that Han and Leia are together after ROTJ and have a son named Ben. We don't know the full extent of Han and Leia's responsibilities in starting up the New Republic goverment, pursuing the remaining Imperial forces, though new books and comics are helping to shed more light on that time period and their specific roles in it. But nothing yet that shows they were bad parents in any way. We know that Ben is showing strong signs of the force, including vader-like tendencies, and that can or will potentially influence their son.

We DONT yet know how and when Snoke is doing this, influencing as a bad guy or posing as a good guy, in public or in private (like Palpatine in the prequels with Anakin). We DONT yet know if Snoke was doing this before Ben goes to Luke (right around Han and Leia in the New Republic), or after Ben goes to Luke (around Luke and the new jedi order and trainees). How can we speculate fully UNTIL we fully know?

What we DO know, is that Leia and Han have a powerful potential force user son that could go good or bad like either Luke or Anakin, and they have no experience in training a young Jedi or reaching out to a conflicted young force potential. Leia thinks the best idea is to send Ben to train with Luke, who does know the force, did choose the good, did help to redeem vader, and is Ben's own family, and Han agrees. Ben goes to train. Minus hindsight, what is yet wrong with Han as a father here? Was Shmi wrong to send Anakin away off world with a nice stranger jedi named Qui Gonn, but Han and Leia can't send their son to Luke, Ben's uncle? So Luke trains Ben, who then goes bad (don't yet know when or how Snoke's influence happens), Ben either leaves Luke to train with Snoke or Knights of Ren, or stays with Luke, but either way, Ben betrays and murders his uncle's students, and takes off to be with Snoke and the First Order. Do Han, Luke, and Leia know where Ren goes? Is there a way they can either find out where Snoke, Knights of Ren, or First Order is at, or if they could even get to Ben without being killed? Or do they think at that point that murderous evil Kylo is too far gone to try and convince him to come home, after what he did? We have no idea. How is Han being a bad father yet?

So, we don't know a lot yet, but we DO know that after this horrible family betrayal, Leia and Han struggle to cope. Ben is evil and gone. Luke is really struggling too. Every time Leia and Han see each other, they remind each other of their son, either blaming themselves or the other (or Luke) for what happened. Ben is gone, or protected by / and or learning with Snoke, Knights of Ren, and the the First Order troops, and Han and Leia either don't know where Ben is, or cant get to him, or dont think that there is anything they can do for Ben/Kylo at this time.

Han and Leia BOTH feel torn apart from each other, reminding themselves of Ben everytime they see each other or try to talk, and they BOTH cope with this horrible family tragedy in the best way they know how: to go back to what they were BOTH good or comfortable with, Leia with the Republic/Resistance, Han with smuggling. Have you ever seen what happens to parents or families who lose their child in a drowning or accident or horrible crime? How it can often cause spouses or families to potentially split apart? Either way, they either can't get to Ben, don't know how to find him, don't think it can help at that point (under Snoke, with Knights of Ren, with First Order), or think they might get killed by Kylo or the First Order by even trying (which the caring father Han eventually sacrifices his life to do, once he FINALLY SEES his son alive for the first time in years and actually LEARNS OF the secret star killer base that he MIGHT be at).

SO, IN ANY OF THE INFORMATION THAT WE ACTUALLY KNOW, OR WHAT WE CAN SPECULATE ABOUT, JUST WHERE IS IT THAT WE SEE HAN HAS BEEN A DEAD BEAT DAD? Might as well call Shmi a dead beat mom in The Phantom Menace.

And where have we ever been told or shown that Han is an incredible smuggler, other than that he has dropped shipments in the sign of Imperial presence before and has often owed money to the double talking, back stabbing people that often financially back his jobs? All we are ever shown is that Han is semi-unsuccessful talking himself out of trouble, but great at fighting, shooting, or flying out of trouble. Looks to me like they got Han and Chewie exactly spot on.

I could go through the rest the negative arguments on here and other sites, but they are so unfounded and unresearched that it's almost pointless. We can tell how some already feel about the movies, and the methods that they are using to inform their "arguments." I love the movie each new time that I see it, and I choose to give it the benefit of the doubt as I research what i can know, and don't attack or over-speculate what I cant know yet.

 

Nail squarely on the head right there. Star Wars instills such near religious fervour in increasingly obsessed (not to mention self entitled) fans that arguments go out the window and emotion takes over.

However, this is true for those who loved and those who disliked the film.

't is a pity that decency goes out the window just as often and people resort to name calling and alpha male style chest beating in a 'look how intelligent and in know of basic film technique I am' kind of pedantic stance.

Fun for a while maybe, but running the risk to degenerate in locked threads, banned users and potential sourness all around. This place is too much fun and most people on here are too polite to let that happen. At the end of the day fans get the forum they deserve and build themselves. Fingers crossed.

 

...and lovers gonna love.
And some will have an opinion somewhere between these extremes.
So what?
Everyone must be allowed to express their opinion, no matter how many times.
It's why there is still a discussion between those who like and do not like the prequels.
If you do not want to hear opinions, repeated ad nauseam, that are contrary to yours, then the same must apply the other way around.
Which means that technically you are asking for the abolition of online discussion and opinion.

....

Think about it.

 

100% agree. I consider it disrespectful to the rest of this message board for me to express the same opinion ad nauseum.

There are plenty of reasons why moderators delete spam and ban spammers and trolls.

Not at all. Anyone can discuss and opine without repeating themselves ad nauseum. Volume from the same person does not generally persuade; generally, it alienates.

 

The problem is that people who do not like this movie and rant about it are only a small minority. Approximately 3% of TFA's audience. However these have a very big voice as they patrol the discussion boards, commentary sections and review sites. They are more inclined to post their opinions than the people who actually liked the movie. The haters therefore give us a rather distorted view of TFA's reception. Critical reception was overwelmingly positive however and over time the trolls and haters will find a new target to rant about. It's the usual thing for a blockbuster movie like this. Nothing to worry about. The same happened with the Lord of the Rings trilogy. First two weaks positive reception. Week 3 & 4 ranting (in the case of the LOTR the rant went as follows -"the movie was too long, badly acting, not anything like the books and tediously boring - and racist") Week 5 & 6 counter reaction by critical platforms and general audience. Week 7 the buzz dies down. One year later the movie is an absolute classic everyone must see (this is the moment when people again take the professional critics reviews as their main point of reference, since the reviews for TFA are very positive, we can also expect that it will go up in the audience aggregators just like movies like the Lord of the Rings and Titanic did after a year or so.

 

I actually meant that people should be allowed to repeat their arguments, whether it's OMG TFA IS THE BEST THING SINCE NUDITY or TFA IS BAD BECAUSE KYLO REN IS EMOBOY, but, as you said, it might alienate rather than persuade. Not that I think people are actively trying to persuade others to join "their side"; it's just frustration, perhaps disappointment, it could be any number of reasons why one chooses to go online to express their opinion. I should know; I spent 5,000+ posts at theforce.net criticizing The Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones before they finally banned me for life for defending the original Star Wars. Yes, they were probably a bit tired of hearing the same negative things over and over again, but I believe that, for us, it was a way to cope with the massive disappointment. A catharsis, if you will.
Anyway, I mean, yeah I think people should be allowed to comment even if they've said similar things before, just like I think people should be allowed to gush about Star Wars. And if there's something I don't like, I can stop reading, post a reply, or just ignore.
Only when and if someone basically copy-pastes personal insults do I think a line has been crossed.

With that being said, I still haven't made up my mind about The Force Awakens and I'll continue to express my confusion for some time to come I expect

 

I am guessing that we will have to agree to disagree then Ree Yees. I don't think either of your capitalized examples add much to any useful discussion. Stating them once or maybe twice I have no problem with in terms of simple emoting. However, stating them multiple times, let alone ad infinitum/nauseum I would consider a problem (and I suspect moderators would as well once it gets into the ad infinitum/nauseum range).

I also don't believe that my personal catharsis or frustration or disappointment or exuberance is more important than the community, so I would never subject everyone else here to ad nauseum/infinitum repetition of the same points.

From my point of view, it is in all of our best interests if this board is not cluttered. The moderators have a hard enough job consolidating duplicative threads (and its only one of many functions they provide); just think how brutal it would be if they had to deal with thousands of members posting the same things thousands of times in thousands of threads.

I do respect your passion on this matter.

 

I agree that my examples do not add much useful, that was the point (on which we disagree). In my opinion, anyone should be allowed to say whatever they want, usefuI or not, simply because I think it's incredibly important to allow that freedom of speech, even when it does not contribute anything of use (or alienates, as you mentioned). Once moderators begin cracking down on people, divides are made, whether they are real or not - I think it's better to just ignore posts than to enforce tighter policies in the spirit of free speech.

One problem, of course, is that Star Wars, as art, is an entirely subjective experience in many ways and you simply can't escape the simplistic arguments ("I like it because it rocks!" / "I hate it because it pops!"

So, while I don't particularly like posts calling out other members for their posting habits, I acknowledge that you have every right to express that sentiment, and by extension, I acknowledge that the people called out in this thread have the right to express theirs.

Edit: My apologies, I thought you (Veradun) was the author of this thread.

 

Why do people only care about haters now?

The PT has been around for almost 20 years, and every last one of those days people have complained about them.