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How to "save" the sequel trilogy

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by darth sputnik, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Adam812

    Adam812 Rebel General

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    I personally liked both TFA and TLJ. Both flawed but enjoyable.

    The problem is that SW fans are a very difficult bunch to please. They have expectations unlike any other franchise's fan base.

    What made TLJ so divisive is the fact that JJ didn't focus on pleasing fans. He focused on telling a story the way he wanted to tell it. Sounds a lot like Lucas with
    the prequels.

    So what needs to happen is for JJ to make a fan pleasing movie for IX. He needs to give them something most of them will have a good time with.

    With TLJ, the stage has been set for a really epic battle. Luke's act of heroism will inspire a huge rebellion. Not a small rag tag rebellion like we have already seen. Luke also will have inspired new Jedi to pop up around the galaxy. Thus we could have a whole army of Jedi fighting in the battle. This will make the Battle of Endor look like two porgs fighting. I'm sure most fans would be pleased by this.

    We also need Rey, Poe, and Finn go on a fun adventure together. We need to see the big three of the ST together fighting, running, and bantering.

    And finally we need to see an emotionally satisfying conclusion to Kylo's arc similar Vader's final moments in ROTJ. That will be JJ's most difficult task. Could it be done? We shall see.
     
    #141 Adam812, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  2. nightangel

    nightangel Rebel Official

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    yeah, I fear they may even give the Jedi order legacy to Kylo/Ben in IX. :eek:
     
  3. NOT JEDI MATERIAL

    NOT JEDI MATERIAL Rebel Trooper

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    Maybe he has better teaching and/or organizational skills than Luke did! lol
     
  4. Blastaar

    Blastaar Rebel General

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    I don't think there is a way to save this trilogy. Best to just grab a fiddle and a quiet spot for the view. Maybe the next trilogy will have better storytellers.

    Also, for me, I'm not gonna see IX in the theaters as I have no confidence in the story. I'm not calling for a boycott, but I hope that people who were shockingly disappointed with how things have turned out, do not continue to patronize LFL. I just want new storytellers. Get ron howard to direct more films. Use more experienced and proven directors. I wouldn't mind seeing what else gareth edwards can do as I felt he had a firm grasp on the visual story telling thats in line with star wars.
     
    #144 Blastaar, May 22, 2018
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    He was basically replaced by another director who had to clean up the mess.
     
  6. Jack_Forest

    Jack_Forest Force Sensitive

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    Here's a couple of brilliant tweets I accidentally came across (have no idea who the guy is):

     
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  7. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebel General

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    I agree with you. I have loved Star Wars since 1977 and even enjoyed the prequels in a lot of ways. TLJ broke my heart. I'm trying to get back some of the enthusiasm it ripped from me but it's just not happening. This ST was a missed opportunity to get the band back together and have them properly hand off the reins to the new crew. It was not necessary to do that to Luke. I can't forgive it. Still haven't seen Solo and don't have any plans to. I came back here looking for some hope but I'ms till sad/angry to get back into Star Wars right now.
     
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  8. HarryShoulders

    HarryShoulders Rebel General

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    I agree, that things change and people can choose to accept that or not. The ST should have been the transition to respect the past so the old fan could feel good about their version of SW as they hang up their coats (but it wasn't) - then you build on that momentum and move forward with SW to new places (which they haven't). That includes Luke and Leia who in my eyes were straight up disrespected in TLJ. There is anger, sure, but there is a lot more apathy now. Just look at the post above and Solo ( I kind of fall in that camp myself).

    Before people who didn't enjoy the PT could live in the OT, but now you have a storyline that invades the OT by way of the characters. It may be possible in time, but you are asking people to partition out certain items, and that can be hard to do when you think of the OT cast on screen, what is canon now, etc.

    Brilliant??? Those tweets kind of stupid since SW has been doing fine generationally for 40 years, and you don't just throw hobbies away willy nilly - people want to stay on the ride and support it. Most of the OT/PT fans are 30-50 years old, meaning they could have relatively younger families now and income to burn. If you turn those folks off, they won't share it with their kids, buy it for them, etc. So if you think there is enough of a new generation of fan to support the theme parks, movies and ancillary products, great. I have yet to be sold on that. Like it or not, TLJ broke the fandom and possibly the causal SW fan with the lack of payoff on various levels. Some of the fans are still screaming loudly at RJ, etc., but pretty soon they just won't care altogether.

    I suspect individual shows/mini series on the upcoming Disney streaming channel could be the future of SW to cater to the varying audiences desires, but on a tighter budget. They need to demonstrate what they have in mind first at Celebration.

    How do you save the ST? I don't know that you can for many anymore. I won't share my thoughts since it would just incite stubborn rebuttals, but I still have a flicker of hope. SW desperately needs more world building, ships, weapons and creatures to appeal to kids down the line. Something lacking from the ST. The next movie should have a more restrained cast, and tie the saga together - even the PT. JJ is going to have to pull out all the stops and marketing will need to be on point.

    If you are feeling down and out about SW right now, and you enjoy the entirety of the saga, subscribe to SW theory on Youtube for a quick fix to pull you from the fires of the fandom. It helps me anyway.
     
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  9. Bunai

    Bunai Clone Commander

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    So they're excusing bad writing and scene edits with people not wanting to 'change' their views?

    pfft.
     
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  10. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Examples of bad writing please.
    And remember disagreeing with or not liking the direction it takes is not an example of bad writing, it's an opinion you have on the writing.
     
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  11. DarthWarEagle

    DarthWarEagle Rebel General

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    I posted this in the Solo forum in a discussion, so im just going to copy and paste it below and then expound on it a bit more

    I know the script for episode 9 has been completed, but you have to wonder if any of the 'fan revolt' of the last 6 months, and now Solo's bad performance, will cause them to rethink things. It is one thing for a stand-alone to fail, but it would be an epic failure for IX to bomb. How could Disney squander so much goodwill in such a short amount of time? I won't say I hated TLJ, but it just seems like a squandered opportunity to really push the 'new' cast to the next level. I just don't feel like the general public has really connected with the new cast (not the fault of the cast, but the writing) and the 'old 3' are now gone. So Disney has really painted themselves into a corner. If i was Disney i'd go ahead and start planting "Luke's not dead" hints, and some how figure out a way to bring him back. I think most people just don't even care what happens to Rey....she can't do anything wrong anyways

    So "saving" is going to be sort of difficult. They have wasted 2 movies making Rey a Wonder Woman that just do anything. Besides being from an orphan background, it doesn't seem like she has really had to fight or grow to be in the position she is in. I mean she has been a force user for all of two weeks or less, of course she can win a light saber battle and is smarter than Luke. *rolls eyes*. They completely wasted Finn's character in TLJ. No real growth - he just seemed to follow Rose around and nod 'yes' a lot. Poe is salvageable , but mainly because they made him out to be such a d*ck in TLJ. So everyone knows he will become the head of the Rebellion, but it is hard to root for him considering the way he acted almost the entire movie. So going into IX I don't think you have a lot of people that really care about these new characters.

    So if it were up to me....
    1. Devastate Rey early in IX and make her hit rock bottom.
    2. If there is no Snoke, they need to make Kylo Ren ruthless and not goofy. No comical hi-jinx between Hux and Kylo.
    3. No Rose. Stick Finn and Poe back together. Let the bro-mance flourish (no SJW!).
    4. Give me a reason to like all these people and root for them again.
    5. Whether it is ghost Luke or living Luke, give him a worthy send off. My brain will never allow me to believe he became the whiney man-Vhlor that he was in TLJ. It is stupid that this would even need to be a part of this film, but it is beyond obvious that Rian Johnsons version of Luke turned off a large portion of the audience to the point that they would not even go see Solo.
     
  12. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebel General

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    I'm with you mostly but I don't mind them adding more diversity to the films. The way RJ went about it was ham-fisted and held up some to the detriment of others. His "themes" were clumsy and trite and he beat us over the head with them for 2 hours and I was sick of it. Rey DOES need to earn her place and face some adversity to become our protagonist. She just floated her way through the film and ....this has all been said I suppose. Speaking for myself, I will not go see EP IX unless they really try to make amends for EP VIII. I cared about Poe, Finn and Rey after EP VII but now, I just don't. There are no questions to be answered, no cliffhangers to resolve, no mysteries to unravel. Why would I bother with another 2 hours of a story that's been run into the ground IMO? If they hint at Luke returning (think Gandalf the White) then I'll be in. Otherwise I just pretend like the ST never happened and I'll enjoy the other 2 trilogies as best I can until I die of exhaustion on top of a rock somewhere.
     
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  13. AfroJedi69

    AfroJedi69 Rebel Official

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    I don't know about "saving" this trilogy, but there are some things that could help make episode 9 better. First, there has to be a time skip! Give these characters to grow offscreen. Two, focus on Rey, Finn, and Poe...that's it! Don't bring in anybody else! Three, resolve the Skywalker storyline, which would not be difficult. Fourth, no more kid comedy or jokes...nuff said! I don't know if one really good SW film could make up of TLJ, perhaps two or three could make people forget what happened. Personally, I think having Luke teleport himself to another planet works better than him dying in episode 8.
     
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  14. DarthWarEagle

    DarthWarEagle Rebel General

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    I don't mind diversity either. As someone said before, in the Force Awakens, it looks like they cast the Rebellion pilots at a Starbucks. You can't tell me there aren't 1000 more qualified actresses than Kelly Marie Tran to play Rose. I don't care what color they are, but it just seems like someone along the line said "hey we need an Asian female with a big role" and RJ had to write around that (or hell maybe it was his decision).

    MOD EDITED.
     
    #154 DarthWarEagle, May 31, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2018
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Trying to not give in to how utterly repulsive this is comment is...


    [​IMG]
     
    #155 cawatrooper, May 31, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2018
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  16. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I know what could “save” this trilogy: fans connecting with the story in front of them, fans enjoying a woman protagonist, fans accepting that Luke died a hero’s death, fans accepting Snoke may not be Darth Plagueis, fans welcoming diversity and inclusion, fans not imposing their story wishes on the writers, fans learning that the force is not quantum physics or mathematics, fans not talking about KK as if she were the devil incarnate and RJ little Lennin...

    In short: let’s be better fans.
     
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  17. Johnny Thunder

    Johnny Thunder Rebel General

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    Like exhaustion?
     
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  18. Ruralfarmboy

    Ruralfarmboy Jedi General

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    Friend ...
    If ... IF, I could Give To You ...
    .. a super Great, Grand, OutStanding, In The Stratosphere Rate ???
    I So Would.
    But !?
    That'd be from Only One person (An' That One ?= me ?) don't matter.

    ... um ... this might be a bit long ...
    (there be Many a post that's Long - Most (in Many threads, They Make No sense)

    So, Folk .. ya Ask fer to be "better fans' ...
    My "Hope" Also.
    Yep.
    So, Now ... in this here 'Modern day Age' of hidin' behind ... keyboards, an' "Internet 'Handles (Profile Names)
    ... an' folk Says what they Want ...
    ... Much "Hate" upon one another ...

    ... I grew up in a time, ... some Others ... here, like me, also have ...
    ...
    @Lock_S_Foils (Dear Friend)
    @Trevor
    @FN-3263827
    @BobRoss (meybe we don't see eye to eye)
    .. an' There's Others ...

    ... yeah, a time when ...
    The Story was ... The Story.

    Wasn't 'bout what was 'Wanted' ... More about, "Tell Me More". ...

    Now'a'Days ?

    I (can't be just "me") .. I see/hear/read "Tell ME This ! This's HOW It Goes !
    "This ! According To HOW I Say It IS!"

    ... ... what ... ... ?
    No.
    No, One Of Any of Us,
    Doesn't matter What kind'a 'Fan' Ya Are ...
    I (just ME) , been along for ALL Forty One Years (since I was Ten Years Old)
    ... Again, just ONE person, an' there BE MORE than just me.

    The END of This ?

    Folks !!!

    Stop !
    The!
    Hate !

    If ya Like ?
    Great !
    If Ya Don't ?
    Great .


    Can We be Kind'a ? ... Together !?!?!?!?
    ... PLEASE !?!?!?!?
     
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  19. Legend Knight

    Legend Knight Force Sensitive

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    I am not going to force myself to connect on an emotional level with a film I do not find enjoyable. That is cult like thinking. I will be a better fan when they make a movie I find truly great. You can look at my past comments since September 2014 when I joined this forum on its first day lol. I am not some lingering troll that was dead set on hating Disney Star Wars. My pre TFA comments were laughably (even max level cringe) optimistic about the future of Star Wars. It was only after seeing these movies that feeling that Star Wars could (and should) be so much more than it currently is started to set in. I hate this mentality that if you have grievances or offer any kind of constructive criticism you need to be "a better fan"
     
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  20. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Listen, I don't like every SW stuff I see. There are many things I don't like or I don't particularly enjoy, such as the prequels, cinematic decisions in TLJ, most of the EU, comics or books. Rogue One was so and so for me, and Solo, well... I just did not get that movie, period. There is a lot of things in SW that do not do it for me, and that's OK. We all very often exchange our opinions and criticisms about these films in these forums, as we should. However, I DO NOT demand, blame, whine, complain or condemn Lucasfillm or Disney or any writer or cinematographer for not always offering me the subtlety of character I prefer, the inspiring worlds and action scenes I enjoy most, the magic of a well balanced well paced story, the wisdom of a profound message, etc. I comment on it, joke about it perhaps, but never dismiss it. These films are people's visions, projects and careers. My duty as a fan of the franchise, as I see it, is to give them a chance and try to understand their vision and art. I am also perfectly aware that SW creators are not catering for me in particular, but for a huge fandom of different ages, tastes and cultural backgrounds. They are not always going to get the balance right as JJ almost did with TFA... I think it is time for some SW fans to accept this. George Lucas's gave us all a gift back in 1977 and for me, better rejoice in this gift and in the creativity it encouraged and encourages in others, indulging in what you love and discarding what you enjoy less, (and criticizing it if necessary, yes, by all means) instead of writing it all off. It is not always the case, but sometimes behind a picky and difficult to please person, there is a destructive one and that's a problem, because most creative attempts can only work (or be "saved" as many like to put it) f we give them a chance. High expectations need to be nurturing not prescriptive.
     
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