I'm so disappointed.. by the fans

Let me put it this way. AotC did a fair amount of things poorly but one thing it didn't do is make the characters less interesting. Anakin's killing of the Tuskens after his mother died from the injuries she sustained by their hunters' hands was something that continually haunted him as well as marrying someone behind the Council's back. This was something Palpatine ended up exploiting as he became his confidant over the course of the trilogy which reached its pivotal point in Revenge of the Sith when he ultimately sent Anakin's idealism of what a Jedi should be which was born by his actions on Tatooine on a collision course with Mace's insistence on killing Palpatine without trial. That's why it's interesting. AotC planted seeds in the narrative that would come to fruition later on.

TLJ, on the other hand, opts for firmly separating both Rey and Ben by having Ben double down on everything he did and assume the position of Supreme Leader and Rey realizing she can't turn him, ending that interaction entirely with Anakin's lightsaber being destroyed. All that has occurred is that Kylo's the Supreme Leader now and that Rey will most likely have to kill him. That's it. I can't see any other option without it being even more trite.

 

Yeah, but Poe also sucks in every capacity to the point of utter lunacy. "Hey, guys. I'm going to charge a fleet headfirst with no support whatsoever and come out of it totally unscathed." His entire arc is pointless because his feats are unbelievable even by Anakin's piloting standards in the war. At least he was still supported by an army.

Considering Ben committed patricide when Han essentially tried the same thing she did, I wasn't exactly on the edge of my seat here when it came to whether or not he'd turn. Also, it's kind of funny that you say she didn't need "that old religion" when she literally takes the texts which originated from that religion to supplement her practically nonexistent training. So much for that.

It's basically the same arc from the last film only more haphazardly done this time around with Rose who is an infuriating character from a conceptual standpoint. I would have preferred having this subplot about Finn reconciling his past but then again, that probably would have required for him to have not been a wasted character in The Force Awakens. What I ultimately mean is that Finn is a totally wasted opportunity.

This whole arc would have been better if Luke's "mistake" couldn't have been more half-assed and contrived. Having him go back on the ethics which were derived by one of the most intense and formative moments in his life does more harm than good to the saga's themes and the more I reflect on the film, the more it seems that way.

Also, this makes the whole concept of there even being a map in the first place stupid if he told Rey he never wanted to be found. Seems nonsensical to me.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

He murdered his father in cold blood, was complicit in the murders of trillions, betrayed his master and assumed power of the organization responsible whilst never seeming apologetic for any of it. What would he have to do at this point in order to be truly evil?

 

This is just to remind you, but at the time, when end credits rolled in, you maybe didn’t feel like that? That the second installment of the trilogy of that time surely was going to tie together? You have the benefit of judging prequels as a complete movie trilogy, but TLJ only as a part of it....

Have faith my young Padawan. Nothing is ever that bleak.
It is one option, but in some ways the ending scene left things open - the story can go many ways when it comes to Kylo and Rey.

To me, I Interpreted the last scene with Leia comforting Rey with her broken lightsaber, as a promise that everything can be fixed. That hope has not been lost.

 

I did feel that way. I was interested in seeing just how the pieces would fall with him and the Order by the end. Some things have not aged well in regards to the film, I admit but that part (and several others) remains interesting to me.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2017 ---

I'll admit, it's probably the X-Wing Alliance veteran in me talking but I wanted to peel my face off watching that opening battle. This was only exacerbated by those absurdly slow and ineffective bombers. The Y-Wings were better bombers than these things. What happened to the B-Wings? Who knows?

 

Which is an important distinction to make. Also, I'm pretty sure that he's managed to kill more people than Vader by this point considering that Starkiller Base annihilated an entire solar system possibly containing trillions of citizens.

 

And yet, he said nothing, did nothing and when he finally killed the man responsible, it was in a ploy to assume power of the First Order rather than dismantling it and turning himself in. Not a good look.

As for the bombers, they were not going in slow motion. Those things were substantially slower than the superior B-Wing and didn't even have enough ancillary armament to justify their size. The StarFortress is easily one of the worst Star Wars ships ever conceived. I know it's not something the average Star Wars fan thinks about but it's a Star Wars forum so indulge me.

 

Because the current canon is stupid when it comes to things like this. None of the bombers prior to this one had exposed their payload to enemy fire and this one does? That's too massive of a flaw to have it considered more advanced than the B-Wing or the Y-Wing. Not to mention that the proton bombs can go off without even being activated which is a HUUUUGE drawback that could kill the entire crew and destroy the ship.

 

What a great presentation of your take on this. If this post had a less aggressive title towards the folks who are not digging it, I would say that this post deserves to be featured.

 

Yeah, at the price of an archaic payload delivery system, more unstable payloads, even more cumbersome movement, all of which being factors that ultimately endanger the crew and by extension, the mission. If you employed these in a protracted conflict, they would fail 9 times out of 10. The B-Wings could cause significant damage to capital ships while also being well-armed, more nimble and required less people to man it.

 

I mean, you say that but the X-Wings were also a more advanced model. Granted, that doesn't make Starkiller Base's destruction any less asinine but still, that's worth mentioning.

 

It's less "real science" and more "in-universe consistency", if that makes sense.