SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

This might the weirdest take yet. Is this really the reason some people think he might be redeemed?

I don't think that happens and can easily be explained that Leia is having force visions similar to Anakin. Either way it's too vague to draw that conclusion.

 

No, Kylo Ren will come back to the light because the ST is a soft reboot/remake of the OT.

There's an entire forum out of there of people engaged in sexual objectification who want to have sex with Adam Driver and their imaginary relationship. Certain women who are attracted to men will excuse any and all atrocities because the man makes them horny. It's the lonely women who write to criminals in jail and then get married when they get out.

 

Kylo has far more than two people's blood on his hands as been pointed out by others such as ordering the execution of the entire village and killing Luke's students and all the deaths at Maz's castle. As a leader of the first order, he is most certainly complicit in the deaths resulting from the firing of the Starkiller base. His objection has more to do with his rivalry with Hux for Snoke's favor than any concern for the lives lost and he only objected to the second firing that was stopped not the first. Sorcha treats Madmartigan like a captured enemy combatant and, while she may be a little rough with him as normally happens when the bad guy captures the good guy, there is no outright torture or abuse. Finally, once again, no one is objecting to Ben being redeemed. It's the notion of Ben also getting to have a romantic relationship with Rey that many of us have issues with.

There are levels of redemption based on how much evil the person has done. It's not about whether or not they can be redeemed but what price they must reasonably be expected to pay for what they did prior to their redemption. No one thinks Anakin should have been allowed to go back to being a Jedi and live happily ever after if he had survived ROTJ because he had far too much blood on his hands and had committed far too many atrocities. In fact, after the PT, there are many who now hate that he was redeemed at all after watching Anakin killing children in ROTS.

Likewise, Ben has already committed mass murder multiple times and murdered his own father. He has already, in one movie, passed the threshold, whereby he could become a hero with any hope of being able to walk away when all is said and done. If he is redeemed, it will be a Vader like redemption and not like Sorcha who has no innocent blood on her hands but starts out as a soldier for the bad guys then chooses not to do the evil things she's been ordered to and instead joins the good guys. As I said in my last post, Sorcha is more like the Finn of 'Willow' then the Kylo Ren.

 

I disagree with so much of this but I'm too lazy to address all of it. I'll try to bullet point.

1. First off, don't build a straw man. I was directly addressing your claim of how many people Kylo has been shown to kill on screen in TFA. Not the rumoured, suggested, implied amount. The actual number of people he personally killed in TFA which was the point you made in the post I addressed. On screen he killed 3. A far less number than ANY of the heroes killed. As I pointed out, if we are applying our moral sensibilities to what is happening onscreen, then I must say that I'm disgusted at the relish Finn, Poe and Han display while killing enemy combatants. Also, you conveniently ignore my remark that he has not shown any real enjoyment while doing so, so his acts are indeed evil but there is a definite question mark as to is he really evil himself. It is interesting to me that morals and ethics are selectively applied. Killing with joy is OK because it is for a good cause? Hm, no.
2. As I already said. There are no levels to redemption.

Hm, his son Luke did.

You are confused about redemption, punishment and justice. I don't get the "eye for an eye" logic. Are you saying that if someone is sincerely, truly repentant and is on the way to or have already healed themselves and transformed themselves, all of that change must be ignored and they should be judged for what they did, and ignore the potential of what they can do in the future?! Justice and punishment are for those who are unable to change - rehabilitation and new life is for those who can. Even in the real world. To want to punish somebody who is trully changed and repentant because one is keeping an "eye for an eye" score is a worldview that I simply cannot share. Especially in the context of a fairy tale that this is, which for some reason people keep forgetting. In real world there are indeed no ways in which to judge the level and truth of one's positive transformation, but in a GFFA there is a way to do so. So, I strongly disagree. Anybody who is good deserves good things to happen to him/her. (I would cite Yoda that your mind should be on the present.)

3. That's incorrect. Sorcha has innocent blood on her hands. She was shown actively helping hunt down innocent babies and their mothers and be complicit in killing them. It was implied that she has taken active part in helping her evil witch mother until she meets the heroes of the story. This was of course only implied, and not shown on screen, but so are many of the accusations you accuse Ben Solo of.
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Look. I am not excusing Kylo Ren of the acts he has done. But I argue against the notion that in a fairy tale a person who is good must be punished nevertheless because of the fact that he was bad in the past. So yes, if we can accept that he can be redeemed, that he can be made good again, that he can come back to the light, then yes, it doesn't rule out anything positive for him, including love.

Padme married Anakin even after he admitted to having killed unarmed women and children (Ep. II) and later going to Mustafar to find him offered Anakin to go away from all of it with her even after finding out he had killed younglings in the jedi temple. Let that sink in. You or anybody else approving of it in real life is irrelevant. This is what characters in the SW universe are able to do.

People seem to like quoting one specific Kathleen Kennedy quote here, so I'm going to quote another thing she has explicitly said about Kylo Ren:
"Kylo Ren seems to have taken many bad decisions, but they aren’t necessarily bad decisions within the context of Star Wars, where they can lead to almost anything. "

 

Incest between Kylo Ren and Rey is a bridge too far for some people but not all that evil **** and evil employer that Kylo Ren has done and works for in his life. Go figure.

But they are related, so make you peace with it like the Luke and Leia people had to.

 

i don't think Ben has been afforded the opportunity to make a single decision in his 30 years @Shadrac.

Palpatine pulled and twisted everything in Anakin's life until he got his claws into him... i don't think Ben Solo ever actually existed.


Kylo says to Han..

looking at the chatter concerning Snoke affecting Leia/Ben during pregnancy, do you think it possible that Leia gave birth to Kylo Ren? someone that Snoke had complete and total control over.

I put it to you that Ben Solo is a figment of Kylo Rens imagination. a made up persona during his younger years until he got what Snoke needed him to get from Luke before joining his master. Snoke's plan would have been for Kylo to kill Luke as well as the students obviously.

Ben Solo was never born. Leia & Han lost their child before they even met him.

I think there is a Ben Solo in there waiting to be re-born.. something more than even redemption.

Ben Solo has done nothing to be forgiven for.. he hasn't been born yet.


yeah i know.. i lost myself there somewhere too.

 

It's only incest if one believes they are siblings which one doesn't. I do hope you can comprehend that.

You are the one who brought up that the interrogation scene has deliberate and intentional on the part of TPTB sexual undertones AND at the same time believe they are brother and sister. Brrr...You do realise how disturbed that is?!!!

 

Because you choose to ignore her enslaving two people and assisting in the attempted murder of an infant.

When did ben commit mass murder?

And there are examples of mass murdering villains (or least attempted mass murderers) becoming heroes - Sabertooth, Venom, Megneto.......... hell, one of the most popular legends characters is Revan!

Ben being redeemed is no different then Rey's parentage - it all depends on how the story is told. It can be good and well done either way.

 

I do hope there is an epic love story in store. There has to be.
Well, you know where I stand, but I'm going to put up two things to lighten up the mood here to release some tension in the ranks.
The wise Obi-Wan has said on the subject:

"We all have a chicken-duck thing waiting for us in the bushes of love."

As soon as the love story is not executed like in the PT it will be grand. I know many people don't like Anakin and Padme's love story (there are a lot who do!), but I think the biggest problem was not the story itself, nor the casting, but the way it was executed for which I blame George and the lack of real opposition that he faced in writing bad dialogue and giving acting directions such as "Faster and more intense".

But aside from that. There has to be a love store, isn't it?!

 

Well there have been rumors about Finn and Kelly Marie Tran's character. Personally I'm fine with side character romance, but prefer Rey not be involved in one, at least not as a big focus of the character. Maybe hint at a crush on a side character (similar to Finn and Rey in TFA), with a larger hint in the last movie that something will develop after the events of the movie. Either way I really don't want a repeat of the Anakin /Padme thing where there were so many red flags that that girl should have wanted to get as far away from him as possible.

 

Whites will no longer be the majority in the largest Star Wars market (the U.S.) by the 2040s (and even sooner among the entire youngest generation - new births for years now are majority non-white), so Lucasfilm might want a Latino or black Skywalker to lead the next trilogy if they continue with Skywalkers. I'm fine with Rey being single and just ending the saga but they might not be.

 

Rey have a new hairstyle it's mean a BIG INFORMATION ABOUT REY'S PARENTS

Spoiler: BIG SPOILER DON'T LOOK

Snoke has a half down hair style too

 

I made no claim about how many people Kylo killed on screen merely how many deaths he was responsible for as shown in the movie. He ordered the death of the entire village after he killed LST. All of those deaths are on his hands. He lead the attack on Maz's castle so those deaths are on his hands too. We also know that he killed Luke's students and, whether you agree with it or not, does bear some of the responsibility for the deaths resulting from the firing of the Starkiller base much like Vader was partially responsible for the destruction of Alderaan.

You need to re-read 'Bloodlines' if you think the galaxy would have stood by and allowed Anakin to walk free after what he did. I'm not confused about redemption and justice at all. Redemption is true repentance of the evil acts a person has committed. Justice is making proper restitution for those acts. In a civilized society a person is required to pay their debt to that society for the crimes they commit. The aim isn't 'eye for an eye' but merely justice for the victims of the person's crimes. Anakin walking free after ROTJ would not have been considered fair justice or okay by Leia or any other surviving Alderaanians or any of his other victims. The same applies to Ben. Again, justice is meant for the victims of the crimes not the perpetrators. This notion that, if they are really, really sorry, and will never, ever do it again and have so much to offer the galaxy, then they shouldn't be punished for what they did is completely asinine and is in no way justice. A person is responsible for the choices they make and therefore must face the consequences for those choices no matter how sorry they are or how much good they could do under different circumstances.

Sorcha, on the other hand, is not shown to have done anything for which she must pay for at the end. Again, like Finn, when faced with the choice of actually doing something evil, she chooses to do good instead. Ben chose to do evil and now must pay for it rather than getting to go live happily ever after.

 

We shall see... there is no need to go back and forth like children, we're all adults here, only time will tell. Its funny how when the truth is revealed about outlandish theories they scurry and bury their heads in the sand and then comes the silence...

 

I tend to believe Luke does know who Rey is or, at the very least, what she represents.

In the thread regarding Luke's memory (https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....ke-cant-remember-who-he-is.11401/#post-347105), I wrote:

Now, whether he feigns ignorance or even eccentricity towards Rey at first, perhaps out of concern or to test her (as Yoda initially tested him on Dagobah), that's another thing.

But, as I also pointed out in the other thread, in terms of economy of narrative and moving the story forward, it makes more sense for Luke to know and remember, as there are many other things that must begin to be explained in Episode VIII.

Maybe he can pull a Yoda and ask, "Why are you here?" to see what she says, how she reacts, but, personally I'd say, the last thing we need at this point, after waiting for so long for any revelation, is Luke Skywalker looking dumbfounded at Rey, who is holding out the lightsaber, and then asking her, "Um... what's that?"

 

I see no point in arguing. You are completely missing my points. I'm not saying that you are not correct to say what you are saying. You arguments are logical and have their merit. However they are a superficial and limited understanding of what really matters. I'm saying that I don't share that belief system in which despite the fact that one is transformed and trully changed for good he still has to be punished for what he has done in the past before that transformative change. It is absurd and counterproductive and it is indeed an "eye for an eye" logic that I cannot share in a fantasy or real world alike. And I don't think that the people in that universe who actually know what's up, like Luke , Yoda and Obi-Wan and oh yeah, the Force itself, seem to share the sensibilities of the citizens of the galaxy. Because they obviously don't.
I'm glad you brought up Leia's lack of acceptance of the fact that Vader came back to the Light - it is a great example, because she now has personal stakes in accepting it, for the sake of her son!
Anakin was truly redeemed and forgiven by what/who really counts - he came back to the Light and became a Force ghost. A spiritual feat only reserved for those who are truly selfless as lore says.
That says it all right there.
It doesn't matter if the galaxy cannot understand that Vader became again Anakin Skywalker for reals. The fact is he did. The citizens of the galaxy cannot possibly comprehend the mysteries of the Force, and there are few who can. Opinion and fact. Do you understand what I'm saying now?!!!