SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

She didn't enslave them. She captured two enemy combatants and held them prisoner.

Killing Luke's students was mass murder. Ordering the execution of the entire village was mass murder. Ordering the attack on Maz's castle, a civilian establishment filled with civilians was mass murder. Being complicit in the firing of the Starkiller base which destroyed an entire system is mass murder on a scale far larger than anything Vader ever did.

 

And you're mentioning this in this thread because?

By 2040, Oscar Isaac will be considered white. It's a political distinction. The US has a long history considering immigrants a different race (i.e. Italians, Irish, etc.)

What does racial politics and forums dedicated to sexual objectification this have to do with this thread? Nothing.

Rey is going to be a Jedi so she's not going to be settling down. I think Finn is still an open question. Kelly Marie Tran's character seems like a long shot. I could see a scenario where Kylo falls in love with Rey, but not the other way around. One can envision a scenario where Ben Solo loves Rey so much that he helps bring down Snoke and the First Order. However, he can never become a Jedi again or win Rey's love so he becomes an unlikely ally over time.

I don't think there's a rush here to create romances because unlike the previous trilogies, these characters will be in a lot more Star Wars films. Those type of stories can come later.

Let me be clear. You are going to see a lot of movies with Finn/Rey/Poe.

 

Ummm... you're forgetting Alderaan.

 

Do you think Leia, Luke or even the Force will have any real say on what Ben's fate will be if he returns to the light and survives the ST or will it be the 'unenlightened' people of the galaxy who will decide his fate? I don't think my views are superficial or a limited understanding but actually ARE what really matters. Saying I'm sorry and I will never do it again does not mean you deserve or should get a free pass even if you have truly changed. I posed a question regarding Nazi war criminals in a previous discussion on this topic. Dr Mengele could have made a lot of contributions to science had he truly been 'transformed and changed for good' after the end of the war. Would it have been considered justice to let him go free after all the things he did to the Jews simply because he had changed? I don't think so and I know the Jewish people certainly wouldn't have thought so nor would most of the civilized world have thought so.

It isn't about whether or not Ben or Anakin is truly redeemed but it is it right or just for them to go unpunished for their crimes. If Yoda, Ben Kenobi, Luke and Leia think they should, they are wrong not 'enlightened'.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2017 ---

I'm not forgetting Alderaan. That's one planet. The Starkiller base destroyed at least five planets. That's orders of magnitude more deaths.

 

Genocide is genocide. Vader himself slaughtered Padawan. Ren is no worse than Vader. He too can be "redeemed" within the SW universe. And clearly when it comes to Galactic war... there are no geneva conventions or war crimes.

 

Also

 

Again, it's not about whether or not he can be redeemed. Its about whether or not he should be allowed to escape punishment for his crimes and live happily ever after with Rey. No, there isn't a Geneva convention in the GFFA (although I imagine there is some sort of similar agreement in place under a different name/circumstances) but there definitely are war crimes.

 

SaturdayAMCereal ‏@StayclassySDCC
@pablohidalgo @starwars well, Rey using Luke's Saber tells me something... what dies it tell you Pablo?

Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
@StayclassySDCC That Episode 8 follows Episode 7.

Brandon Pereklita ‏@BPerk327
Rey's hair is down! What does it mean @pablohidalgo ?!?!?! #TheLastJedi

Pablo Hidalgo ‏@pablohidalgo
@BPerk327 If she saw her shadow, it means 10 more months of speculation.

 

SHe tells him they are slaves. Had they not escaped they should have been enslaved by Nockmaar.

We don't know how many students Luke had, though it is possible he participated in one there. Do we see Kylo order the attack on Maz? I don't remember that (I'm seriously asking). As for Starkiller base - this means every First Order member is a Mass Murder. However even if we call Kylo a Mass Murder, there have been stories were mass murderers become heroes. None of their excludes the possiblity that the ST ends with a good Ben Solo going out into the galaxy trying to make up for the wrongs he committed, with or without his cousin/sister bride Rey at his side. It its well written it will be good, if its not....it won't be.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2017 ---

We just went through this - you have ZERO evidence to back that statement.

 

Yes he can be redeemed but he doesn't get to ride off into the sunset with Rey afterwards. He must pay for his crimes.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2017 ---

Yes, she makes evil plans for them and tells them of the evil fate she is going to subject them to and even calls them slaves but none of that ever comes to fruition so doesn't match up to what you've been implying about their relationship.

You didn't say anything about the village so I assume you accept that one as mass murder. The forces attacking Maz's castle were under his command so, yes, they were following his orders when attacking it. He is part of the FO leadership and was one of the three people in the meeting where the decision was made to fire the weapon. He is, therefore, partially responsible for the results of that attack and, no, not every member of the FO is responsible for it only those giving the order to fire.

 

We'll see - it depends how the story is structured. If Kylo/Ben ends up caputred and with Rey and Luke for a lot of Episode VIII and IX - we could see him pay for his crimes (payment for ones crimes doesn't always come in the form of external punishment).

 

Interesting gifs but I'm not sure what you're saying with them. Do you have an answer for my Mengele question?

 

Oh - so because they escaped early on Sorsha did nothing wrong by making them slaves. So if Northup had escaped right away, that would have meant Brown and Hamilton did nothing wrong?

I don't remember Kylo killing anyone at the villain except for Max. And if Kylo was ordered to attack Maz's castle? It seems like you want to blame Kylo for things he may not have had any part in simply because his allies did them - but also dont' want to extend that to the rest of the FO.

Kylo is portrayed is a good kid trying very hard to be bad. He knows what he is doing is wrong and he wishes he didnt' feel conflicted about it but he does. He murders at least one person out right. Is at least complicit with some horrible acts (but so is every First Order member). He kills his own father. While he doesn't torture anyone, he clearly don't mind causing pain to get what he wants. But to paint him as the worst thing the galaxy has ever seen is ridiculous, and counter to the story. The whole point is he WANTS to be what you're painting him as, but he isn't. He doesn't go on one-man killing spree's through Maz's castle or the village. We don't know how many people he killed (it might be 1) when they attacked Lukes school. He isn't ordering mass murders or genocides at every opportunity. He isn't taking pleasure in Rey or Poe's pain etc... Hell, when he has the opportunity to finish Finn off totally he leaves him alive.

 

I think that could possibly change the perception of Ben if something like that happened but I don't think it will. If anything, the redemptive arc will be set up in VIII and brought to fruition in IX.

 

We'll have to see, and it all depends on how it plays out. If he just turns on a dime and its played as a surprise that's different if we see him dealing with guilt.

 

I didn't say she did nothing wrong only that what she did isn't anywhere close to being equal to what Ben does in TFA and what he's known to have done prior and is, therefore, not a good comparison with the Rey/Kylo-Ben relationship dynamic.

He orders the execution of the whole village after he killed LST. That's mass murder. Luke's students are referred to as a plurality when Han say he killed THEM so there was definitely more than one and was likely a group which is mass murder. Again, he orders the attack on Maz's castle and is, therefore, responsible for the results including the deaths so that is another mass murder on his hands. He is on of the three people who decided to fire the weapon so he is far more responsible for the resulting deaths than the lowly storm trooper who was only on guard duty on the base and wasn't involved, in any way, with the firing of the weapon.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 16, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 16, 2017 ---

That's certainly true. We will see in 10 months.

 

I'm confused... you seem to be contradicting yourself. Will Rey/Finn/Poe be in a lot more Star Wars films or are you not convinced? LOL

I suspect we'll keep seeing these characters until people get tired of seeing these characters.

 

I had the suspicion you may not be able to.

It means I do not wish to continue arguing with you. I see no point in doing so because you are not reading what I'm saying and most importantly my gifs were reaction to you saying that the characters in a space fairy tale (i.e. a piece of visual and completely made-up fiction) we are discussing are wrong and that the messages and ideals portrayed in said space fiction must be incorrect if they don't fit your real world sensibilities.
See, I can't argue with that because that would be nonsensical. If you are not able to comprehend that SW is a fictional reality that has it's own logic, etc different from our real world's then it will be impossible to reach any kind of understanding at all now isn't it.

P.S. Your Mengele question is really not pertinent. I don't have the time to explain it to you. But I'm pretty sure most probably someone already did in the past 300 pages or so...