SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

How is enslaving people not on par with killing 1 old man or being there while your friends blow up a solar system? And we don't know what Sorsha has done in the past. Her mother clearly trusts her, I think its safe to say this isn't her first mission for her.

And if there were 2 students? If he didn't order the attack on Maz's? I honestly don't remember him saying fire the weapon - when it was fired he wasn't on the base. These points aren't to say Kylo isn't bad or a villain, but he isn't the worst thing we've ever seen on screen either, and we've seen stories were people as bad or worse then him have been redeemed, and one where a villain who made people slaves and wanted to kill an infant (not only, completely oberate its soul) "found love" with the hero at the end. The different is, Rey is a woman so when she subjected to questioning or place in uncomfortable situations our reaction becomes much bigger the point of being ridiculous. If you want a woman to be the star of this action adventure film, we're going to have to deal with her doing stuff like that - and if its ok for Val Kilmer to forgive Sorsha (he even married her in real life), it has to be ok for Rey as well.

 

Being Jedi is not birth control.

 

Then what you said: "I don't think there's a rush here to create romances because unlike the previous trilogies, these characters will be in a lot more Star Wars films. Those type of stories can come later." Doesn't really make sense.

I think I've mentioned this before, but you kind of have to detach yourself from the reality of the movie business if you really think Lucasfilm isn't going to making Episode X with most of the same cast. There's simply too much money to be made and no reason to stop.

 

I laughed and did this at the same time:



Hilarious!

 

Nope, but it certainly keeps the divorce rate down since Jedi do not get married.

 

Just ask the former Queen of Naboo.

 

PT era Jedi didn't married, ST era Jedi might.

 

You said t.

Part the reason major franchises pick unknown actors is because those type of actors are more likely to sign contracts for multiple films. Disney isn't dumb. Plus, if you're in Star Wars film it likely to define your career whether you want it to or not.

 

Maybe Rey is the girl from Journey's "Don't Stop Believing?"

Click the link. You wrote that and it's not misquoted. Was it at typo?

According to Pablo they've mapped out things for around 10 years.

And movie business 101 says Daisy signed a very long contract with Disney. Disney wouldn't invest all that money into a new hero and then simply let them walk away after three films.

 

LOL classic. No wonder I was so confused. It was me!

 

Wow. And I was feeling guilty for derailing this thread.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I wasn't saying anything of the sort. I'm speaking to one issue specifically; Anakin and Ben escaping punishment for their crimes. We don't know if they (Yoda, Ben Kenobi, Luke) would have advocated for that and Bloodlines makes it pretty clear Leia didn't with regards to Anakin. That has nothing to do with the overriding messages or ideals of the saga as a whole. Yoda and Ben didn't even want to give Anakin a chance at redemption and pushed Luke to kill him. The fact is the Star Wars mythology is all about making the right choices because the wrong choices tend to have horrible consequences. There is nothing in it about escaping the consequences of those choices. In fact, it's quite the opposite. As Yoda says, 'Once you start down the path to the dark side, forever will it dominate your destiny'.

No, no one has answered it because I haven't asked it before but it is a valid question and speaks to what you think should happen with Ben. Both are guilty of heinous crimes, both could do a lot of good if they truly changed and were given the chance, Do you think it would have been justified if Mengele had been given that chance?

 

Once again, I said that I don't wish to continue discussing with you and yet you persist?

I'll very briefly address Mengele and please let's leave it at that as I do not wish to continue since as I have already said I see no point in arguing since we obviously share very different worldviews. But importantly, you seem not to want to accept the fact that the worldview of a fictional universe can possibly be at odds with your own.

Apart from asking me to compare a historical person who as far as I know has never shown any regret or has done anything good in his life to atone for whatever war crimes he has committed and a fictional character who we still are yet to find out what he will do in the next 2 instalments of a fictional tale and how he will develop going forth.
Mengele and Kylo Ren have nothing in common. Comparing them is a futile exercise in which I see no point whatsoever.
It is similar to asking me “Why is a raven like a writing-desk?”

Here is however another fictional (or real depending on who you ask!) story from the life of the Buddha about the mass murderer and serial killer Angulimala who after killing 1000 men to wear their fingers as a garland around his neck because someone told him he will become powerful if he does so, is shown by the Buddha the error of his past, is converted by the Buddha, becomes his disciple and becomes enlightened in turn. There. There are literally millions of people on this our planet (Buddhists) who actually find no fault with this kind of moral message this story has. They accept that the murderer and killer Angulimala can change and be on the right path even if in his past he did a lot of evil. The message is clear. Anybody who changes is saved. And they have a right to a fresh start.

You insistence to compare two things which have no relevance whatsoever is very strange. Mengele has never been shown in a space fairy tale as someone in war with himself, conflicted, someone who is under the evil spell put on him by a manipulating malevolent supernatural entity. Mengele was not the son of fictional characters who we loved since we were children and who seem to love their child and believe that he is just manipulated and not everything is lost and for their sakes we the audience want him indeed to be saved. Also Kylo has magic powers and his uncle and mom have that magic power too and can sense if he feels like crap when he is tricked by said malevolent power into killing his dad. There.

 

Yes Sorcha started out as a villain but never ended up actually doing anything truly evil. She captured them and said she was going to hand them over to someone else as slaves but it NEVER actually happened. Therefore you can't compare her actions to Ben Solo's.

As for Ben, I've already listed his crimes many times but you seem to be ignoring or missing them which was much more than killing one old man but I'll try again.

1) He killed Luke's students. Han says he killed 'all of them' which would indicate a group not one or two so it's a mass murder.

2) He killed LST

3) He ordered the execution of the whole village. Mass murder number 2.

4) He was in command of the attack on Maz's castle and is responsible for the results of that attack. Mass murder number 3

5) He was one of the three people who made the decision to fire the Starkiller weapon so is responsible for the resulting deaths. Mass murder number 4.

6) He killed his own father.

That's just the murders we know about. There is still the question of the clan leader and his entire clan if that vision is accurate. That would be mass murder number 5.

Again, I'm not saying he can't be redeemed like Anakin was. I'm saying he can't end up with a free pass so he can be with Rey. He has to pay for what he did redeemed or not and there are many stories of someone being redeemed but still having to pay for their mistakes at the end.

 

No, enslaving people isn't evil. You're right. And no, she didn't say she would hand over she directly calls them slave. They are slaves before they escape. You're fighting a losing battle here.

1) Yes, it might have been 2. You can't call it a mass murder yet.
2) Yes he did. One person.
3) Yes he did.
4) No he wasnt, he wasn't anywhere near the attack. He was off in the woods. We also don't know if it was his idea or someone else's to destroy the castle. Your assigning blame when it might not exist.
5) Here is the scene
INT. STARKILLER PLANET - ASSEMBLY ROOM - NIGHT
KYLO REN and General Hux in a dark space, looking UPWARD at
someone addressing them.
We're in a massive and dark ASSEMBLY ROOM. Hundreds of DESKS
in a stadium arc, focused on a platform where we see SUPREME
LEADER SNOKE. Not entirely human, at nearly twenty-five
feet tall. All of him a STONY GREY. Old, wounded, fragile
and powerful, all at the same time.





(CONTINUED)
CONTINUED:
SNOKE
... Leading them to the last Jedi.
If Skywalker returns, the new Jedi
will rise.

GENERAL HUX
Supreme Leader, I take full
responsibility for th--

SNOKE
General! Our strategy must now
change.

GENERAL HUX
The weapon. It is ready. I believe
the time has come to use it. We
shall destroy the government that
supports the Resistance, the Republic.
Without their friends to protect
them, the Resistance will be
vulnerable, and we will stop them
before they reach Skywalker.
Snoke considers. Almost seems to die for a moment. Then:

SNOKE
Go. Oversee preparations.

GENERAL HUX
Yes, Supreme Leader.
General Hux, proud, cocksure, exits. Kylo Ren watches him
go. Snoke SITS. A new intimacy in his voice.

SNOKE
There's been an awakening. Have you
felt it?

KYLO REN
Yes.

SNOKE
There's something more. The droid
we seek is aboard the Millennium
Falcon. In the hands of your father,
Han Solo.
Kylo Ren reacts with subtle, but real, surprise.

KYLO REN
He means nothing to me.

SNOKE
Even you, master of the Knights of
Ren, have never faced such a test.
Kylo doesn't suggest or appear to have an opinion when it comes to firing the weapon. If you;'re going to go down the road of "he was there" then all FO personal are guilty.
6) He did kill another person. Not a mass murder.

As for this idea "he has to pay", it all depends on what form his redemption takes. If we see him racked with guilt and he is the one who ultimately kills Snoke and saves everyone, thats a much different story and presentation then if it comes out of nowhere and is a surprise. If its the former, its mucher eaiser to accept and buy the heroes (certainly ones who might have seen him dealing with his guilt) accept him (they are heroes after all), if its the later.......its a more difficult situation. As for ending up with Rey - if tehy go that way, Rey's character comes into play an is a major factor as well. If they end up going through something together that brings them close together, if Kylo ends up saving her etc.... there are many, many factors in play.