SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

Yes. Luke and other Jedi that will follow in future will built up Reys new"family".
The family of the new Jedi Order

 

He does, he needs to disarm her because she with a lightsabre is a threat to him. He needs to incapacitate her and take her alive. If he does not fight her, he cannot disarm her. He can ask "come with me" but why would someone surrender at a moment of strength?

 

jeez. get a copy of your own already ~ hahaha

this is the scene in its entirety:



so again: tell me your interpretation.

 

haha - never, at least not until Rey is revealed as a Skywalker or not

 

he could disarm her by saying: hey: you know why that lightsaber came to you? i know something about your father.

he's clearly capable of being "nice" to her. he doesn't need to fight her at all in that moment if he knows she's Luke's daughter.

we can agree to disagree that this is just bad storytelling if that's the case.
i think it just becomes action for the sake of flash and, again, a loaded gun that's never used.

 

What the dialogue reveals is that the action of bringing the girl to Snoke has to do with Kylo needing guidance in order to acquire the map from her head. Snoke will get it out of her head. But he does not tell him how? He reminds Kylo why he wasn't able to aquire the map, namely because of his weakness, compassion. Then the last piece of dialogue between Snoke and Kylo. First he states he is going to remind Kylo of the darkside (it's not explained how). Then he says that "bring the girl to me" which still revolves around the previously discussed action of "getting the map from Rey's head". The two might be related but don't have to be so by necessity. That's my point. My gut feeling is that he is going to use Rey to show Kylo the fallacy of compassion, but it does not have to revolve around torture. Even though I have that gut feeling, the dialogue does not reveal it to me explicitly.

 

really?

well it's pretty dang obvious to me. so we can just disagree on this one as well ~ hahaha.

 

And you think she would drop it? I don't. She does not want to go with Kylo and defends herself from his attacks. Besides what if they both know who her father is. After she pulls the sabre from the ice there would be no point in revealing it to her would it? He realizes it only then, but she knows it already. What point to reveal to her that Luke is her father when she already knows he is.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

We should hang out in the Finn thread more often, our ideas are quite similar over there

 

and all of this is kept from the audience for some dramatic reveal two movies later.
to me, that's bad storytelling. just straight up.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

hahaha ~ i'm never going back there! never!

 

Well that's only if you didn't experience it as a reveal already

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

Me neither. I've capped too many negative ratings over there simply because I said that the argument for making Finn force sensitive, on the premise that people who are force sensitive are superior human beings, is an ethno-racial argument which is very similar to the Nazi's legitimization of eugenics. Some people even said I can't be a Finn fan if I don't want him to be force sensitive.

 

well let me just appreciate you for for a moment for being able to have a dissenting discussion without being a "disagree" "dislike" trigger-happy lunatic ~ hahaha

 

Maybe in ep VIII, Kylo Ren's misjudgement of the situation wil lead him in Snoke's jail. And he'll try to escape with the Knights of Ren's help.

 

Well the fact that we disagree allows us to be critical about our own arguments and think about our own thought. Discussion and disagreeing is healthy discourse for the mind. I don't understand why people should dislike other people simply because of a different argument which runs counter to theirs. I like people who disagree with me often more than the "aye" sayers. Ultimately our disagreement stems from the heuristics of- and meaning of the word "good storytelling". We disagree but at least we can understand why we disagree

 

i'm kind of curious. but i suspect we won't see Snoke punish Ren. i suspect we'll just see Ren come back meaner than ever. Snoke can't afford to kill him right now (not with Luke imminent), and frankly, he's already got Ren in a psychological prison. a physical one isn't necessary.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

absolutely! and i like being able to hone my arguments on the whetstone, so to speak. i can always articulate better in the wild when i've gone through the proving grounds here ~ hahaha

 

I don't see why Kylo shouldn't be able to mask those emotions that he truly wants to hide from others. When it comes to Rey being Luke's daughter, he has every reason to conceal what he knows because
1.) He doesn't want Snoke to pay too much attention to Rey and the possibility that Luke has this kind of vulnerability [it is Hux who gives away Kylo's personal interests to Snoke]
2.) He doesn't want Rey to focus too much on her father because Luke must be seen as a competitor in Kylo's quest for companionship with Rey. She'd never choose to go with him if she has the option to go to Luke. So Kylo keeps suggesting to her that the go-home-to-daddy option doesn't exist.

I see that I formulated myself clumsily when I wrote about Kylo considering himself a nice guy and him assuming that he didn't finish Finn off anyway. The latter claim is just conjecture on my part. He wasn't worried about having killed Rey either after force-pushing her into that tree, even though Finn was in fits.

One last thing, though I realise this is getting off topic:
Kylo's concession "Supreme Leader, I can get the map from the girl. I just need your guidance" suggests to me that Kylo wants to have a personal audience with Snoke first [who he may never have been allowed to meet], and then return to the interrogation room "to get the map" on his own. Snoke has just threatened to kill Kylo's mother with the new SKB weapon, and now Kylo asks (again) to meet him in person. I'm sure those weren't kind intentions. Snoke's answer "If what you about this girl is true, bring her to me" sounds to me as if Snoke is unwilling to receive Kylo right away, unless he brings along Rey, who Snoke could use as leverage against Kylo. I don't think Snoke is interested in Rey per se. In the end, he has the guts to face Kylo but only after Kylo is emotionally and physically weakened and in the custody of Hux.

 

i kinda feel like he's pretty lousy about hiding his feelings. not only in terms of his almost total lack of impulse control, but:

1. he can't hide from Snoke that he feels something for Han.
   
2. he can't hide from Rey that he's afraid/disturbed by her reversal of the mind probe.
3. he can't hide from Snoke that he feels compassion for Rey.
4. he can't hide from Han that he's being torn apart.

these are emotions the he desperately wants to hide (we see him fight), but he can't.
so i guess i find it hard to believe that he somehow manages to sublimate all this information about Rey being his cousin and Luke's daughter (which seems like pretty highly charged emotional information?).

i think Ren is capable of mildly disobeying Snoke, but i just don't see any evidence (yet) that he's capable of outright subterfuge.

i feel like the "i can get the map moment" is absolutely about "don't fire Starkiller" ~ but very little else. it's his last ditch effort to prevent the blast.
i think your speculation around trying to get close to Snoke "in person" is interesting, though.
we really don't know yet whether he's ever had physical contact with Snoke.
for the moment i'm inclined to let this lie because i don't have strong feelings about it one way or the other.

 

Agreed Don't kill mom for no reason

 

I disagree, for a number of extremely solid reasons, not least of which is the fact that there's nothing directly leading in that direction, all of the major reasons to believe this clearly turned out to be a red herring to keep people off the scent that Rey is actually the chief protagonist and the new Jedi character in the film. So uh, no I'm not speculating that Finn won't turn out to be a Jedi, the burden of proof clearly lies with those that are convinced he will inexplicably end up being a Jedi despite the fact that film presents this very idea as a joke ("We'll use the Force!" "That's not how the Force works!"), but this is not the place to discuss this so I'll leave it at that.

I would totally agree with you. I'm not sure I like it either, namely because of the hackneyed way they set it all up down to her growing up on an inhospitable world that happens to be a lot like Tattooine and Anakin's lightsaber showing up again out of nowhere.

That said, I find it odd that some people who have a problem with Rey being a Skywalker (assuming because they think it's just too obvious or something) don't seem to have an issue with Kylo, or for that matter him being redeemed just like Vader. On that they agree someone has to carry the torch. But I think this idea of them retreading the same ground here is unlikely. For one the set up is completely different, what are they going to do other than in very uncharacteristic non-Star Wars fashion have Leia go and talk to him just like Han tried to but this time he just won't be able to bring himself to kill her and that's it?

Something else the novel cleared up here, if any parent was responsible for Ben turning to the Dark Side it was Leia not Han, she knew that Snoke was watching Ben from afar and kept it a secret from Han. I somehow doubt that Kylo Ren would be snuggling up to mommy if he knew about that.

Also, Vader did a lot of evil things but people forget that the good that was left in him was his love for his family. His turn to the Dark Side was all about saving them Kylo on the other hand is totally in it for himself. He might "struggle with the light" but by everything we've seen he has no love for his family, and when he kills his father I think that point sealed his fate and there's no coming back from that. But before episode 9 is said and done I wouldn't be shocked if Kylo is at least driven to turn against Snoke not because he's suddenly inspired to be good but because he'll have plenty of reasons to realize Snoke is his true enemy.

Hey guy you keep bringing this up and I'm just going to tell you again, not only would you already have the answer if you had actually read the novel and weren't clearly trying to cherry pick any single thing you could to keep arguing whatever it exactly is you're trying to argue here, but this point you keep bringing up here has absolutely nothing to do with Rey's lineage. It doesn't tell us anything about it one way or another about that.
But let's just say it did, it's really not pointing in direction you think it is.

I'm not interested in writing fan fiction here and thankfully we don't have to because we who have actually read the thing know that in the novelization Snoke reaches out to Rey through the force and tries to gode her into killing Kylo during their duel. So what can we take from all this? A lot. Indeed Snoke would have no qualms about replacing Kylo with a more powerful apprentice in Rey, and it's worth noting that Snoke knows a lot of Jedi/SIth Lore, that he's well aware of the Skywalker family and their legacy and choose Kylo as an apprentice for a reason. For him to suddenly be very interested in this untrained girl who bests his finest apprentice says a lot about her beyond "she's a super strong force user".

So how about you quit reaching and give it a rest. Seriously Your argument is as weak this. You might not want to realize this because you're getting all this positive reinforcement from a few buddies of yours on the forum who totally agree with you, but your arguments are anything but rational.

For me it really is this simple and I find it ridiculous that this requires explanation, nevermind that there's absolutely no evidence that she's not a Skywalker and plenty of foreshadowing that she is. Of course people will find room to disagree but it's safe to say their reasoning adds up to them simply not wanting her to be a Skywalker and the simple fact they didn't spell it out in plain English. Though they go excessive lengths to rationalize their arguments there's just no logic to it. It's like trying to prove a negative, they just don't understand that. The central narrative and repetition of themes is the strongest evidence of who she is, that they literally make her the heir to the Skywalker legacy on top of that should make it all really clear without having to say it.

Again as I've argued elsewhere, it's not that they couldn't have done it, it's that there was not a single appropriate place in the film for someone to say it out loud and ultimately it wasn't even necessary to get the point across. Whatever the case is, clearly people are interested enough that they keep talking about it and hyping up Episode 8 so whatever they were intending to do here it was successful.

 

i only wonder if it's true the clan is her family in some way, where does that put her allegiance? why would she reject Luke?
she's not going to run to Snoke if Kylo Ren is his lap dog and he killed her family.
if, however, Ren spared them somehow and there was a way to blame the massacre and/or Rey's abandonment on Luke, that'd be something?