SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

I would agree except for the fact that the darn lightsaber is a family heirloom, why would they reintroduce it if they're not going to pay off on all that entails? Instead of Rey specifically taking on the Skywalker legacy (which the film shouldn't have had to say blatantly to get across) she's inheriting a weapon that now itself has some kind of destiny.

I understand that some fans were really looking forward to Finn being a Jedi and all, but it's painfully obvious that is not going to happen short of Finn showing up out of nowhere in the middle of Rey's training and declaring "Look I got better and it turns out I can use the force too." Really, I think that's where this speculation comes from about Rey being anything but simply the most powerful force user in the new generation of characters because she's a Skywalker. People who are somehow convinced that TFA showed other non-Skywalkers (something never before seen in a Star Wars movie) quickly learning to use the force, or at the very least it's related and equally wrongheaded.

Personally I think it makes the movie better that she's a Skywalker because it shows that our filmmakers are capable of transcending the original material and breathing new life into the series while still holding on to the things the fans would really care about.

If she's a Skywalker they nailed the character development perfectly, if she's not, then basically we can conclude that JJ and company played homage wherever they could and completely missed everything that made Star Wars what it is. I prefer the version where they didn't have to telegraph the backstory to the audience for them to get the gist of it because if not everything in the movie really is little more than shameless pandering, the story really isn't very cool at all but with the bonus of everything looking really pretty and everyone turns in at least likeable performances.

The fans that were in this before the Prequels and the EU even existed as they do now are going to be really disappointed that Disney just decided to switch gears and make the Skywalker family not central to Star Wars anymore. Might've been okay if it were an entirely new story, but it's not.

This post pretty much sums up what I think of alternative theories.

 

lol , I'll number your replies

1. Kylo, being an emotional but also sensible man, would want to reveal it to her in a more controlled environment. Look what Luke did when Vader revealed "no, I am your father" on Bespin. Luke tried to commit suicide.The goal is the bring in Rey alive at all cost. "I can teach you the ways of the force" is one of those incentives to persuade Rey to give up. Kylo thinks Rey is like him and would naturally want to develop those powers to "become stronger".
2. Yes, he is following his master's orders (bring the girl to me). Snoke will try to seduce her, but Kylo might have a plan of his own. His ultimate goal is to restore vader's legacy whom he takes as an example, something Snoke disagrees with. And as I said Kylo Ren will want to mirror Obi Wan's plan to use the son against the father to bring down the empire, Kylo (and Snoke) will want to use the daughter to take down the father Luke. Both revolve around the same notion of attachment and compassion. Compassion is Luke's strength (ROTJ), but can also work against him (ESB). As for Kylo, it was Vader's compassion of all things which made him turn to darkside. He wanted to save the ones he cared for and Palpatine used that compassion against him ("help me Anakin, please!"). No wonder Rey tries to block Kylo from her mind, by that point she knows Luke is her only life line, her family, if she would reveal who she really is Snoke and Kylo could use it against her and against her family. That's why she keeps her true identity as "a big secret" and that's why she puts on the mask "Luke Skywalker, I thought he was a myth". She lied, she knows who Luke is.
3. We don't know how Snoke is going to show Kylo the darkside. Snoke appears to be subtle, it does not have to involve physical torture. Besides Snoke is a man who constantly adapts to the situation. He needs a Skywalker for some reason, but he is likely to choose the stronger one when the situation presents itself. If Rey happens to be more suitable for his mysterious plans with the Skywalkers he will choose her instead of Kylo.
4. No No. It makes more sense if she is a Skywalker.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

If she is waiting for her family it also implies that she knows her family. Besides she had already revealed that her lineage ("where do you come from") is a "big secret" and when Finn asks something similar she replies by saying that it is "none of your business". Not only is she waiting for her family to return she also wishes to keep her own identity and that of her family a secret. Someone told her to do that when she was young and would have explained her why. It is a promise she will try to keep even if it will cost her her own life ("get out of my head"). Her identity is something she cherishes but also something she sees as a risk to herself and her family. It explains why she keeps up the mask when she hears of the map to Luke Skywalker stored in BB8: "Luke Skywalker? I thought he was a myth".

There is also an alternate possibility which I must mention. Namely that Rey was dropped off by her mother and that her mother never revealed to her that she is Luke's daughter. Rey naturally wouldn't know who Luke Skywalker is if she had never seen her father or if her mother never revealed her father's true identity. But other people might know who she is if she reveals who her mother and other family is. It is possible therefore that the person who dropped her off forced her to promise never to reveal her identity. It is also possible that Luke himself does not know that he has a daughter or that he does know that he had a daughter but is nevertheless convinced that she is lost foreover or died.

Then there is the argument for a mind wipe, which is a "weak" and "foolish" and "lazy" argument. Rey is in self denial, but not about her identity, she is denial about the person "whomever your waiting for on Jakku is never coming back". If her mind would have been wiped, then how would she recognize her family? If her mind would have been wiped, then why would she be keeping her identity a secret? Surely that would not have been necessary if her mind would have been wiped.

 

So if Luke doesn't know she had a daughter and Rey doesn't recongnize him, how will we know they are related ? There would be a blood test in Ep VIII ?

 

She blocked him out. He did not manage to access that particular knowledge. He tried to, but instead she entered his mind and gained knowledge about Kylo's emotional state and identity "you're frightened! That you will never be as strong as Darth Vader". It was only revealed to him that Rey is the girl when she pulled the sabre towards her.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

The force reveals it. Like in Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Luke calling out to Leia when he is in danger on Bespin. Luke's reveal to Leia in Return of the Jedi that she is his sister: "somehow I always knew" or when Yoda and Obi Wan reveal it to him on Dagobah: Luke - "Leia is my sister!" Obi Wan- "your insight serves you well". Similarly Kylo feels who she is when she pulls the sabre towards her. Also Leia feels who she is and she feels who Leia is when she exists the falcon.

 

What about those 1000 credits ?

 

Wow, thanks for your faith in me.

You know what, I always took this thing to mean that he wanted to elope with Rey at that point [like Finn did on Takodana]. Kylo used the training aspect as an excuse for them to spend time together, rather than telling her outright that it's companionship he's really after.

I am totally certain that what Kylo tells Snoke about Rey after the interrogation is not what he actually knows. He tries to sell the idea to Snoke that she is untrained when he knows better, and - the way I understood it - he has no intention of bringing her to Snoke. In the script, the scene reads like that:

Kylo Ren, mask of, stands before Snoke.

KYLO REN: She's strong with the Force, untrained but, stronger than she knows.

And while Ren's mind no doubt goes to Luke:

SNOKE: And the droid?

Kylo Ren hesitates to reveal the truth. Then...​

So the script says outright that Kylo is thinking about Luke while claiming that Rey is strong in the Force. Wellll...

I'm in the "Kylo wants to be his own man" camp [if there is such a camp], and I believe he has realised at some point before this scene that Rey is Luke's estranged daughter, that they are kindred spirits in that respect, and that the same terrible event ties them together that split him and his uncle apart. Kylo couldn't leave SKB with his father and retain the identity he has chosen for himself, but he could and would have left the planet with Rey, who doesn't even know what her original identity is and who may even have invented her own name. He wouldn't take her to Snoke and he wouldn't take her to Luke. It would be just them.

In the end, it is Rey who refuses because Kylo is a terrible communicator as far as his backstory is concerned Throughout the movie, I've been amazed at Kylo's apparent obliviousness to the fact that he's associated with the First Order. He seems constantly surprised when people react to him as they would to any other FO baddie. From Kylo's warped perspective, it must have looked like an absolutely doable thing to persuade Rey to come with him. After all, he knows that he doesn't want SKB to destroy the planet his mother is on [The script mentions that as well]. He knows all the reasons why he had to kill Han. He knows that the silly Stormtrooper will live. He knows that he's a nice guy, really. But all Rey has to go on in TFA is what Kylo's actions look like from the outside, and that's the great tragedy here.

I believe that the Skywalkers' goal in VIII will be to rescue Kylo from Snoke [not "Ben Solo"], and Rey will be the only one able to reach him. Luke's remaining Jedi training may only consist in telling Rey what really happened in those last 30 years, so she can let go of her prejudices against Kylo before confronting him again.

 

I guess the key word here is untrained. And if she finds Luke she'll be trained.

Kylo knows she saw the map and she can find him.

 

Kennedy

http://www.starwarsunderworld.com/2015/10/kathleen-kennedy-confirms-saga-films.html

Thus, imo, we only have three options

1. Rey is a skywalker
2. Kylo is actually the focus of the trilogy
3. Luke is the "skywalker focus" of the trilogy

The interesting part is that if 2 or 3 are correct, it would seemingly suggest that the skywalker family saga ends with IX unless they turned kylo back. For now i'll stick with option 1 until we get spoiler info toward the end of this year or next year.

 

The amount of speculation posed as clear factual evidence in this forum is hilarious. Finn may or may not end up being a force user. I won't got through all the reasons why he might or might not, but it's not painfully obvious.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

From a marketing and story perspective I assume Kylo and Luke aren't going to be in an episode 10. Or maybe Luke makes it through this trilogy and dies in the next one. Either way Kylo can't be redeemed and walk away. The Skywalker family is the history of these saga films. Luke's eventual death will carry even more weight if he has family members. Rey is the biggest new character added to the saga. It would just be odd for a film like this to make her a random. Some people might not like that. I'm not sure I like it, but it makes sense from a storytelling/marketing perspective.

 

i'm gonna challenge you on "sensible" because i'm not sure we've seen any evidence of that. also, she's gonna kill him in that last moment but for the lucky earthquake. why not break her by simply saying: you know that map? it leads to your father. i could tell you more. wouldn't that just stop her cold? why not say that up front? he's tired, bleeding, and has a backed up to a cliff. why not just break her?

just from a storytelling perspective: does it really make sense that he wouldn't use this ammunition against her? you initially say he would have acquired this information from the interrogation, but he doesn't seem the least bit surprised by what he finds in her head (other than the business about Han Solo). given the nuances of that scene, don't you think we would have seen his reaction?

but if he didn't realize it until the lightsaber fight (which would support your argument more since that's the place in the book he says "it is you") again, rather than fight her at all, why not psyche her out? at least at that point of having her pinned to the cliff if they needed an excuse to make them fight first? wouldn't that be the "sensible" thing to do?

So you believe Rey knows Luke is her father (interesting, i didn't realize that). i don't see any evidence of that (she would have to be a profoundly good liar, but okay, let's say she is). also, i would wonder at what he wasn't able to defend against in the interrogation: him seeing her vulnerabilities (loneliness, sleeplessness, the island, her affection for Han).

but you also think Ren's got some kine of plot against Snoke similar to Vader (he's been brainwashed to think Vader's compassion for Luke was his downfall, but he's going to try to wrangle Rey onto his side with the same compassion?). not sure i see this actually demonstrated anywhere in the film. what do you think Snoke is going to do when he sees this girl?

i think it's really clear from the text what he intends to do (he's not going to show Ren the Dark side by inviting Rey to tea), but let's say for the sake of argument there's some ambiguity there. i agree if Snoke meets Rey and sees she's stronger than Ren, he'll throw Ren out like last week's garbage. do you think Ren doesn't know that? he seems to know it very well from his conversation with Han on the bridge. why would Ren deliberately put himself at risk?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

i don't always agree with your ideas, but you have great ones!

now that sounds like Kylo Ren. i can totally buy that in context of that character as he's been presented.

good find! this is not supported in the book (the two diverge kind of wildly here in this moment). my understanding is that Foster wrote the book from the "original" script. i wonder why he excluded this subtext from the scene (it's impossible to know what might have been changed).

i do think Ren has some agenda about Luke that's not in alignment with Snoke (Hux even says so). you've actually strengthened your own argument above about Ren's motive being to run away with this. i'm not sure i buy that Ren thinks Rey is Luke's daughter, though. again, given his inability to mask his emotions, why do you think he doesn't he react more when he realizes who she is?

points for originality. this is an interesting end-game.

he is terribly terribly deluded, isn't he? and has the world's worst social skills. i agree with most of this.

just out of curiosity, where do you get that he knows Finn will live and that he's a nice guy?

i agree: i think this is part of the upcoming plot. i just don't think they're cousins.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---

i think there is another option: Rey is adopted into the Skywalker family.
i know some people don't see that as "legitimate", which is an interesting bias.
if she's not blood, is she really unworthy of being the hero of this story?

 

Best to reveal it in a controlled environment. She might jump like Luke did. Kylo does not try to kill Rey, but tries to disarm and incapacitate her. He is in a hurry. The ground is shaking. As for the interrogation scene, Rey shows him some feelings and thoughts but does not reveal her identity. At that point Kylo is incapable of knowing who she is and he returns to trying to find the map in Rey's mind. That is what the book says. Kylo is then shocked by Rey's pull of the lightsabre in the forest. But he does not have too much time to think about how he is going to proceed.

I have given reasons why it is possible that she knows but I have also given the possibility that she might not know that Luke is her father. As for Snoke, we don't know what Snoke is going to do, I can hypothesize of course. I would say that he is going to try and find out which particular Skywalker is of use to him. We only know that Snoke wants to create something "perfect" and that for this purpose he solicited Ben. We also know that he perceives Luke Skywalker as a threat which needs to be eliminated by any means necessary. We know that he does not completely agree with Kylo's worship of Vader and that it is necessary to remind him of the darkside. He's realizing Kylo might not be the suitable candidate he thought. The question is similar to "why did Palpatine need Anakin?". The ROTS novelization reveals that he and Anakin together might achieve a way to cheat death and become as strong as Plagueis was. Vader is then injured and his power is suddenly diminished. Palpatine needs to find a substitute, for the time being he needs Vader, but he might exchange him for someone else. Then Luke shows up as "a great asset".
Snoke reminds Kylo of Vader's compassion because he knows Kylo wants to be just like Vader. Snoke presents that compassion as Vader's one true weakness. He reminds Kylo that if he wants to be like Vader, the strong Vader, he needs to eliminate his compassion. Kylo feels the pull of the light constantly and is conflicted in his actions and choices. He kills Han to become stronger, but feels weaker after it. Kylo fights Rey, but never seeks to eliminate her. Kylo wants to interrogate Rey but expresses the explicit wish that he does not wish to hurt her (novel). He does not give her over to phsyical torture first like he did with Poe. He spares her.

I don't know if Kylo knows that Snoke might wish to exchange him. But what I do think is that it is Kylo who himself who specifically wants to show her the ways of the force. He leads the knights of Ren and might see her as a valuable addition. He also wants to kill his old master Luke: what better way than to turn his daughter against him. If he wants to be like Vader he would also want to get rid of his master just like Vader. It is also nowhere explicitly stated that Snoke wants to torture Rey, nor do we know that Snoke tortured Ben or someone else in order to turn Ben to the darkside. The darkside does not hide in torture but in the morality of a forced and ambiguous choice and dilemma. The darkside presented as the morally good choice and the lightside as the morally weaker choice. Also the two objectives, bringing Rey to Snoke and showing Kylo the darkside, are not directly connected in the narrative. We don't know if showing Kylo the darkside necessitates Rey. It is neither implicitly nor explicitly stated in screenplay and novel.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

How then do you explain the inherited innate traits? She aquired them by means of adoption?

 

he seems to have plenty of time, but that's just my take. he chooses to fight her instead of talking, which, fine, he wants to see what she's made of, but on the cliff and when she's got him down are two crisis points where he could flip it on her but for whatever reason chooses not to. i think that's not great from a scriptwriting perspective. it's basically the equivalent of a loaded gun in his hand that he doesn't fire.

and you know what Chekov says about loaded guns, right?

i just don't think there's that much ambiguity in Snoke's lines in that scene. also, there's no evidence whatsoever that he thinks Rey is anything like a threat. he even suggests that Rey is not strong at all: it's Ren who's weak.

it fact, he literally says that:

it is also nowhere explicitly stated that Ren wants to kill Luke. we know Snoke wants him to kill Luke, but we also know Ren has some other agenda about this, though i admit we don't know what it is.

it reads pretty explicit to me. why else say: you need a reminder. bring the girl to me. Snoke is having a non-sequitor moment?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

hahaha ~ i don't feel the need to explain them because i don't believe they are "inherited innate traits".
if we don't agree on that point, there's no sense trying to argue it one way or the other.

 

If he fires it she might die.

I didn't say Snoke perceives Rey as a threat. But he does perceive Kylo's weakness.

Perhaps, but seducing his daughter might work for any other purpose. You asked me to think about things which I explicitly stated I do not know

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

Well show me the quote.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---

So why do Luke and Anakin have that particular combination of traits. Does anyone else have them? Why not explain them?

 

of a broken heart?

threat is the wrong word, perhaps. perceive her as an asset, as having desirable power that Snoke would want (i used the word threat because Snoke is threatened by the Jedi, so if she has the capacity to turn Jedi, obviously, he would want to destroy or turn her).

again: it's not my read that Snoke knows Rey is the awakening or that she's anything but an FS scavenger that Ren's farting around with when he should be minding the mission.

i don't see this as special. she's a very very strong FS person. so having a variety of similar skills just follows. she doesn't need to be blood for that to be the case. Ren is a Skywalker, but we never see him pilot a dang thing. is that evidence that he really must be adopted?

i get that you are using her Force skills to make that connection. but to me that's basically the equivalent of saying the fact that she's FS = she must be a Skywalker, which is a logical fallacy.

 

From jumping, like Luke did.

Rey is not a Jedi

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

Or did you just make that logical fallacy by claiming that the piloting and mechanical skills are related to force sensitivity? I didn't say that. I just pointed out a combination of traits which are shared by the previous two Skywalkers. Obi Wan is not a great flyer nor is he a technical genious but he does use the force. That in itself is enough reason to show that piloting and mechanical skills are immediately connected to being skilled in the ways of the Force.

 

1. there's no logical reason that him saying: i can tell you something about your father would make her jump without stopping to find out what that is.
2. again, he could have not fussed around with her in the first place and gone straight for the jugular before the planet began collapsing.
3. or, he could say something when it's clear he's losing the fight and there's no risk of her jumping off the cliff (for whatever reason).

if Ren knows she's Luke's daughter, it's a loaded gun that never gets fired. that's just bad storytelling. and maybe that's the case. maybe you're right.

that's not what i said, is it? i explicitly said she has the "capacity to turn Jedi".

the point is: it's not my read that Snoke knows Rey is the awakening or that she's anything but an FS scavenger that Ren's farting around with when he should be minding the mission.

Rey has x traits
Other Skywalkers have x traits
Rey is therefore a Skywalker

that's a logical fallacy that assumes no one else in the galaxy can have x traits.
i agreed that you can use this information to strengthen your argument.
but that doesn't make it any less of a logical fallacy which doesn't serve for me as evidence fait accompli.

 

Does it explicitly state that he will torture her or that he will use Rey to show him the darkside?

 

a reminder is in order (i'm punishing you for your weakness)
i'll show you the dark side (it ain't going to be pretty)
bring the girl to me (and i'll use this girl, for whom you have compassion, to do it).

give me your own subtext. you tell me how else these lines can be read. what other possible interpretation is there?

 

1. She would know that her mask is off and that she is now a direct danger to Luke. She might jump.
2. He is not fussing around with her. He is actively trying to disarm her. He was playing with Finn but not with Rey.
3. Does he really have time to say something when he is losing the fight. The moment when he can say something the precipice occurs. Too much sound to say something.

I really do not agree that it's bad storytelling. Bad storytelling is the trope of people revealing stuff to each other while they are actually engaging each other in mortal combat. That's B movie narrative.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 20, 2016 ---

It's the combination of traits which function as a narrative trope which is meant to communicate with the audience and plays into the audience's knowledge of the Skywalker family. Anyone can have those traits in the galaxy, sure, but not in the enclosed space of the saga movies. That combination of traits constitutes an intentional choice made by the writers. It can never be a coincidence.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 20, 2016 ---

now quote the entire dialogue and you'll see. Bring the girl to me does not necessarily mean that he is going to use her to show Kylo the darkside. The first two interpretations are correct, but the third one does not necessarily have to be connected to the previous two.

 

that's my point. he doesn't need to engage her in combat at all.

we're never going to agree on this.