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Rose Tico in Ep 9

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by CnlSandersdeKFC, Dec 15, 2017.

  1. Sparafucile

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    Rose? No. Han being dead I would have called. Luke I would have given 50/50 odds. It was logical to me that they would try and give these characters (the big 3)an on screen death before the actors died themselves. I assume Luke will be a force ghost, which I also would have called should he die (50% chance) before 9.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2018 ---
    Saving animals before orphans, but then abandoning said animals. Her whole quote is stupid imo. Hating rich people when I'm sure not everyone there were arms dealers, just like not everyone in Vegas are gangsters. She has a very narrow minded view and sees things like kids do, with little to no shades of grey.
     
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  2. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Agree. She was a very simplistic character with not enough “show and not tell”. Also I’m disappointed that Finn did not call her on her BS, as he should have. I think the Finn in TFA would have... I’m all for highlighting social injustice in films, but dealing with it in this short handed manner makes it a huge deservice.
     
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  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    There never was a choice in the film between saving the orphans vs. the animals.
    Hosnian Prime was just wiped out and there's a war going on, but meanwhile on Canto Bight everyone is having a good time. That doesn't strike you as a place that doesn't care about the rest of the galaxy?
     
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  4. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Call on her BS?


    Let's imagine a situation, when a friend of yours tells you that he began giving money to a charity (it's not important what kind of charity) on a regular basis, because he wants to make the world a slightly better place. What do you tell him? "Great" or "You're stupid. This money could have been given to x, y or z. Instead you're giving it to a. Also, why didn't you start doing it earlier? You are a narrow-viewed moron." This is what's happening with Rose and her action. She did a good thing and now all of a sudden everyone (I'm sorry, some people) because she didn't do this or that. It's true what they say - no good deed goes unpunished, even in fairy tales.

    Also, a digression on representation of rich people in Star Wars. Let me remind you of this scene from a little film called Attack of the Clones.

    Hmm, what kind of people do we have here? Industrialists, bankers, businessmen, counts - people who all control and most likely posess a huge amounts of wealth. And they all are portrayed in negative light? What kind of director is so narrow-minded to only show rich people in negative light? George Lucas? How dares he? (keeps on rambling about how poorly represented rich people are in Star Wars, forgets about members of the Organa family, which are respected both by Rose and Lucas himself and that every planet in SW galaxy is strongly coded - has one type of environment, all of its citizens dress similarly, speak similarly and act in a similar way or is even reduced to a single location of interest)
     
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  5. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    You misunderstand me. I would never say that social issues should not be brought up in films. Actually, quite the opposite. I prefer films that make some sort of social commentary and highlight injustices. I’m a huge fan of Ken Loach’s Land and Freedom and I, Daniel Blake (you won’t find more piercing social and political commentary than that). This is England and Secret and Lies are some of my all time favourites, both extremely social and politically aware films even though they deal with non political main themes. I’m not one of those who only wants to see wealth and aristocracy in Star Wars. That would, in many ways, defeat its fairy tale quality.

    When I said that Finn had to call Rose on her BS I did not mean for Finn to be a j to her. Obviously. Also, for the record, I think Rose is right: It is wrong for people to profit from war, and child slavery is not only wrong, it is inhuman. But doing lip service about it up on screen doesn’t cut it for me. And Finn is left with nothing to say, just to agree. How could he not? If only RJ had given these two characters more confrontational interactions on the different ways they do and view things I could have believed Finn truly admires this girl and is learning from her. I would have preferred if RJ had deviced a detour story line in which Rose did something socially just and relevant such as saving a child’s life instead of wrecking a casino... I would have preferred that, for Rose to show deep heroism and at the same time have a bit of that insecure self righteousness Hermione displays in HP. Like that, Finn would have been able to bounce off her like Ron does with Hermione, creating a more interesting dynamic on screen and taking advantage of the undeniable chemistry both actors have. That’s all I meant with “calling Rose on her BS”. A dramatic device.
     
    #65 Kylocity, Mar 13, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    See, I don't understand when people complain that Rose saved the Fathiers before the orphans, but also complain that they were distracted from their mission.

    The fathiers were intended as a way for them to escape and continue their mission.

    Y'all apparently want Rose and Finn to ride off in the sunset on the back of a galloping Broom Boi.
     
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  7. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I just think they should have given broom boy a backie :)
     
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  8. Perdu

    Perdu Rebel Official

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    No need to dive into specifics.

    Bottom line for me is I could really care less if she is even in IX.

    No hate for Tran. She's great. The character is just "meh" at best.
     
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  9. Sparafucile

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    I get the impression she'd have a hard time swinging such a big sword, but who knows. :D
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---
    The problem is, she didn't actually do anything positive. She destroyed some rich people's games (which is most likely insured, and even if it's not... they're uh... rich) and disrupted an hour or so of their time, while running away with their animals (so now they'll have to get the slaves to go out and round those animals up). She accomplished exactly nothing. If anything, the orphans likely got in trouble and punished because of her actions.

    It kind of laughs in the face of her line after saving Finn. I guess the question is, is it better to give rich people a tiny bit of a hard time and a little scare while likely getting some animals hurt, slaves having to do more work and possibly orphans punished? Or is it better to actually think about this and come back to it when you can actually do something about it.

    As for your charity analogy, it depends. If they gave to a charity that keeps 99% of donations (administration and wages ect...) and only 1% goes to the cause, I'd probably point that out to them, and offer them alternatives that would carry their dollar further. I wouldn't demean them certainly, but I'd ask them to put some thought into it before so that their money isn't just thrown away.

    By your analogy, Rose threw her money away, didn't do any research. She pulled some spare change from her pocket and threw it at a problem without giving it any thought. Furthermore, her motives weren't entirely selfless as this was in her best interest to get out, while riding the backs (literally) of those less fortunate. So continuing with your analogy, Rose is donating money to make sure she can maximize on her tax returns. Great job! At least she put thought into that part.
     
  10. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    The mission was to find a hacker.... not do deal with the problems on Canto Bight. Rose opened up Finn's eyes about a place he thought was fantastic. This was useful element to discuss during the film because DJ approached Finn with a cynical view of the galaxy. Why should you pick a side if both sides are just a machine for war? That's ultimately DJ's view of things. That's a very powerful thing to consider, but ultimately Rose's view helps Finn finally pick a side. Without Rose I don't think Finn reaches the point where he's willing to fight for the Resistance. Until he makes that decision his motivation is to only save Rey.
     
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  11. HothLeia

    HothLeia Rebel Official

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    My problem with Rose in this scene is not the themes (I agree with them!)

    It is ...
    A.) The writing/exposition. Themes (political, lessons, etc.) when done WELL are fine (see Fury Road, Zootopia, and Black Panther for good examples). Tossing 4 political "lessons" under 5 minutes in exposition by a character we just met does not work.

    B.) Her treatment of Finn. Poor, poor, Finn. The guy grew up in a different style of slave conditions (not as destitute but certainly a lack of freedom) and let's not forget he just_woke_up from a coma after all the traumatizing events of TFA. "He was not socialized", as another poster phrased it awhile back! Canto Bight was his first time experiencing a little sense of freedom and fun, so of course he would be in awe and a little naïve. I am not a Rose hater but this scene really bothered me. I wish they just made Rose have no connection to this world and had her and Finn discover the casino's dark secrets together.
     
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  12. Rhyoth

    Rhyoth Rebelscum

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    I'm still convinced Rose and DJ are secretly working together, and both are in fact the secret aprentices of Darth Jar Jar .

    They each inherited different aspects of their master (DJ got the weird speech pattern, while Rose got the ability to sprout complete nonsense, and innoncently doom the good guys without getting caught).
    They are clearly working together to destroy the Resistance and corrupt Finn (still not sure why they are so interested in our ex-stormtrooper, though).

    Change my mind.
     
    #72 Rhyoth, Mar 16, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
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  13. VOODOO

    VOODOO Rebel General

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    I hardly think I’m the silent majority. May I suggest you go to Twitter and type in the name Rose Tico and see the “love” that the character receives. You will find articles on Google titled “Rose Tico is worse than Jar Jar Binks” and many similar posts on Reddit. In fact the dislike for the character is so intense that the official SW site had to come out and take the unusual step of offering a defense of her.

    Rose Tico would feel more at home as a character on Gilmore Girls than sharing screen time cinematic icons like Luke Skywalker and Han Solo.
    Thank god we have her for Episode 9 rather than those two nobodies.


    Here are the results of literally a 1 minute search about what people in the general public think of the character. If I had more time I’m sure I could find much better examples.

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-say-that-Rose-from-the-last-Jedi-is-worse-than-Jar-Jar
    http://comicbook.com/starwars/2017/12/22/star-wars-the-last-jedi-rose-tico-facebook/

    https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/223-star-wars/76109994


    https://www.quora.com/Is-Rose-the-worst-Star-Wars-character-of-all-time
     
  14. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I don't despise Rose Tico. I think she has potential as a character. I certainly don't despise Kelly Marie Tran, whom I believe is a first-rate actress. What I did not like was Rian Johnson's characterization of her. I did not like how he handled her character. And I hope that J.J. Abrams will do a better job in "Episode IX".
     
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  15. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Master of Coin
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    Odd, nothing like that is in the first few pages of my Google search results.... I find nothing but information on her character and other pretty positive stuff. And, though there are a few stories about responses to the hate, there's none about outright hating her character within at least the first five pages, where I stopped my research.

    Guess you must have conveniently skipped ahead to find the ones that validate your argument, as the video you posted appeared on Page 5 of my Videos tab, buried behind a bunch of positive responses to the character of Rose.
     
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  16. Snazel

    Snazel Force Sensitive

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    I liked Rose.

    I personally don't think TLJ is flawless. It has warts. And sadly the whole "Canto Bight" tangent is a key flaw. So are the "I'm not going to tell you my plan, just so I can gloat a little," from the Vice Admiral and Hux's, "Oh well let's just wait for them to run out of gasoline". Weak, lazy writing in each circumstance.

    Rose however is a great character addition. She is smart and savvy but also vulnerable and unsure. She believes in the Resistance firmly and probably more than any other character in TLJ seems to get why the Resistance is so important.

    I know they stick Rose into a really dumb and unnecessary side-plot that produces the worst CGI chase scene in all 8 films. I know just about everyone fast-forwards through the Canto Bight scenes when they rewatch the film.

    That said, Rose isn't the reason why that side plot stinks. Actually, if anything, Rose is one of the key reasons that tangent has some merit. Her scene with the ring in the space horse paddock is arguably the only real quality scene in Canto Bight. It's wondrous to see the Resistance from the eyes of enslaved children, just how much hope and wonder that bring brought to those poor, enslaved kids. My favorite Rose moment for sure.

    So I do hope Rose comes back, strongly in IX. She more than any other character in TLJ could express why the Resistance was so important and why it was a cause worth dying for. And the franchise needs that, it needs to remember that there isn't as much "moral ambiguity" as that awful DJ character suggested. In fact, the Resistance is about hope, liberation and emancipation and that is worth fighting and dying for.

    Rose provides moral clarity and when weaving mythology, that contrast is vital.

    More Rose please, I expect her to heavily involved in Episode IX, she is a great new addition to Star Wars.

    There is no definitive data saying "fans hated Rose", there's only opinion on the topic. I am not sure how you even measure that kind of thing, but if your research amounts to, "I found some negative comments about her on Reddit", then you've done no research at all.
     
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  17. kilowatt

    kilowatt Rebel Trooper

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    my problem with the rose character is that she kind of takes me out of the film with her moralizing. it feels jarring in a Star Wars film, which is fantasy, that there is so much real-world issue which does not really serve any major purpose in the film. I live in the real world so when I go see a fantasy film i want to be taken away from everyday struggles.
     
  18. Flyboy

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    This is quite the cherry pick. They did more than just destroy a few games, they tore up a large portion of the town, including the casino. And to excuse it all "because they're rich" isn't really a fair argument because it could be used to diminish the effects of almost anything then. "Death Star destroyed? Who cares, the Empire's rich and has endless resources, they'll just build another one! Silly Rebels." Sure that might be an extreme example but it's still a valid one. Was damage done to the city? Yes. Did she set the fathiers free? Yes. We know for a fact that happened and any argument of the aftermath at this point is just a hypothetical. Rose did what she set out to do.

    --

    I really didn't mind Rose... up until Crait at least. Everything that happens between her and Finn on Crait is the definite low point in the film for me. I really enjoyed the dynamic between the two for most of the film, the back and forth wariness, I really wish they had kept that up throughout the whole film and then maybe if they wanted to expand on the relationship and turn it into something romantic (which I'm not opposed to) wait for 9 to do that. The way things play out for them at the end of the film just fall extremely flat for me.

    As far as what I want to see from Rose in 9? I don't know. She, much like Lando was in the OT is the 4th wheel introduced in the second chapter of the trilogy. RELAX I'm not comparing Rose and Lando as characters, that's where the similarities end. I don't think we're gonna get much of Rose in 9, obviously I know nothing of the film but I just don't think there's gonna be enough time/room to give her that much shine.
     
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  19. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    [​IMG]

    Do we need a stickied thread simply titled "Star Wars Has Always Been An Allegory for Real World Issues"?

    It's escapism, sure, in that there are elements like X-Wing piloting and lightsaber fights that make for an entertaining movie. But TLJ is hardly the first film to have any sort of political parallels, and if elements of moral philosophy feel out of place, you must've skipped any scenes involving the jedi in previous films.

    Honestly, I can't help but think the "keep politics out of Star Wars" crowd are simply the ones that disagree with the personal message being sent, because otherwise this really isn't anything new.
     
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  20. Sparafucile

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    Wow, somebody likes Rose, good for you.

    Still, DS to casino is quite different in purpose. Destroying the DS was a life or death act, not just for self preservation, but for the rest of the galaxy.

    Destroying the casino was because she didn't like rich people. Yes, some dealt in arms, but not all of them did. I'm sure some rich people went there just to relax from their food or medical making industries. I'm sure some people saved up for years to experience life of the rich and famous. Imagine all the reasons people go to Vegas, and that's pretty much why people go to Canto Bight. All walks of life.

    As for her saving the fathiers, are they even from Canto Bight? Rose herself didn't seem all that well informed. So saving them could have been like saving polar bears from Vegas... to roam free in the desert. Yes, that would go well.

    Everything else you say about Rose and Finn I agree with. I have no issue with her becoming Finn's romantic interest, but I as you felt it was rushed and didn't feel like a natural progression. Had they kept the kiss out of it, I think a few years gap we could have accepted them having built a romantic relationship within that time. Now it will never feel quite "right".
     
    #80 Sparafucile, Mar 21, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 21, 2018
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