THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

The film speaks for itself. Rian decided to go this route and he should face the repercussions. You have to take responsibility for your choices, Rian decided to do something like a flying Princess Leia in space, did he expect backlash? I would think so. Same with Luke. He went with a hologram Luke Skywalker, You know what the cynical fan will think? Why is Luke Skywalker phoning it in? You know what they say about people that phone it in? they aren't genuine. Face your advisory face to face. It's not the last impression I want to have of Luke Skywalker., but I digress. He could have avoided most of the hate just by tweaking scenes slightly. As an example, Carrie Poppins. Leia can show a glimpse of using the force to stay alive in space without having her fly back to the ship, cut it with her eyes opening, next scene she's in a coma. Done. I think TLJ could have pleased everyone with some minor tweaks, but Rian didn't do that and I have to admire the courage to put it all out there. It is what it is.

 

I would say this had more to do with strong female aggression being ok than anything to do with the darkside. That theme matters here.

 

I'll say this much, if she doesn't go dark, I'm not sure there is any other way to "challenge" her character, where it is about her character and not someone else. One thing TLJ did was create a thread to show Rey could go to the Dark Side without hesitation and almost with awareness. The problem is in conflicts a lot with her heroism profile (she was all in for the Resistance from TFA, and has been all about believing the best in people). She has only gone dark in exploring the force, not in her decision making.

 

I heard someone compare TLJ to the Power Rangers.

I told them they shouldn't insult the Power Rangers like that.

 

The character does seem to have reached a level of catharsis. If I had to guess, I’d say her next phase of development is focusing on the future now that she’s accepted her past. That is: embracing her role as the ‘new hope’ for the galaxy, the one to restore balance. She first looked to Luke, then to Ben, but not to herself. Not yet. That’s her journey at this point, I think.

Well, you have to look at the ‘why’ of the situation though. She was only really interested in the darkside because it offered her answers to her questions. When she followed through though, she found it was an empty offer. There were no answers in the darkness, just more questions. Since then, she’s seemingly answered those questions herself.

So, what exactly does the darkside offer her then? A quicker, easier path to power? ‘Power’ doesn’t seem to be much of a problem for her either. She has the Force coming out her damn ears. Belonging? She has a new surrogate family now. It seems to me, the darkside ‘contains nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess’

 

What you say could very well be true; it's not unreasonable analysis at all. I do think that what Luke voice tracked in TLJ was that she didn't hesitate at all, the Darkness showed her what "she wanted" and she went straight to it. I agree it wouldn't be power or belonging that she would want going forward. But maybe there's something else... but honestly I can't think of anything that she "wants" now. At least not something that would challenge her, but I think TPTB will argue that she has already been challenged and just move on.

In reality most people will conclude she hasn't, her bad decisions still have good outcomes, her setbacks are just personal disappointments... but still it may be they'll decide it just isn't worth their effort to try to introduce anything else for her except being the "new hope".

 

I don't hate TLJ, but I definitely think Rian Johnson wasn't the right director for this movie. Like someone stated above, even some minor tweaks here and there would have helped this movie out a lot.

 

Something that is weird to me is that they paid so close attention to some other details (the dice from the MF, Luke's damaged robotic hand, the compass, Hyperspace tracking, they even changed Kylo Ren's TIE to match the toy that went into circulation prior to the release of the movie). How do they manage to keep track of these details and add all these Easter Eggs but miss what appear to be so many obvious details that impacted Star Wars lore and story integrity?

 

One thing really baffled me considering the details you talked about is that the copy of the end scene of ep VII is tainted. Luke holds his back to Rey and then turnaround in ep VII and he's facing Rey all along in ep VIII.

How is this possible at that level of production. I know it'a detail but once again it took me out of the movie completely confusing me.

 

When Luke died, I just wanted this to end and get out the theater. I couldn't care less about anyone in this movie.

 

How does a pair of dice disappear?

 

Luke astral projected the dice and trolled Kylo Ren from beyond the grave by making them stay projected and then they disappear.

Something in the water when this was conceived and shot.

 

It would be funny if Episode IX starts with a video re-cap of VIII and then it wipes to Luke standing on the cliff on Ahch To holding his lightsaber, Rey staring at him. Luke shakes his head like he's trying to dis-spell a bad dream. He looks at Rey and says, "Who are you?"

 

This is exactly what I mean, how do they track those smaller issues and miss something like this, right at the beginning of the movie? Maybe you could forgive a miss here or there in the middle of the movie where you're less likely to notice it anyway, but this was basically a continuation of a previous scene, it should be seamless

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2018 ---

Maybe there were just too many details to keep up with? I don't know. I will say this, if he did indeed say he wanted to find what drew people into the original film, then I'd have to conclude that he didn't know the answer to the question (nor reflect it) while creating TLJ, which means he was absolutely the wrong person for the job.

I think part of what drew people into Star Wars was that it was magical, it intrigued, invited us to ask questions about the GFFA, and then answered them in a way that wanted us to embed even more into the GFFA. That's part of why I think TLJ is so poorly received, it seemed to delight in denying and subverting everything we liked about SW, centralizing the story around the antagonist (even to the detriment of new and existing characters) and justifying it in the name of art, and themes, and challenging convention. The convention didn't need challenge it needed expansion. He answered nothing meaningful from TFA, he extended nothing to look forward to in EPIX. It is quite possibly the most visually stunning and yet poorly conceived and imagined SW episode ever. I mean it has die hard fans saying they're uninterested for EPIX. When has such a thing EVER been true of SW? People were clamoring to see TFA, and even moreseo with TLJ and now... die hard fans, who have followed the franchise for decades, suddenly no longer want anything to do with it. There is no amount of spin that transforms that into success.

If he's still getting this trilogy, it will be better than TLJ if for no other reason he gets a completely clean slate, gets to ask and answer the question he wants, and advance the characters he wants instead of being handed a Finn and Poe who (it seems clear) he had no interest in showcasing in a meaningful way. The story he wanted to tell was about Kylo and Rey, with his new trilogy he can do that with his new protagonist and antagonist and he can keep all the rest of the actors on the supporting plane. I honestly think his trilogy will surprise a few. However, if he decides to "get cute" again and create a Rian Johnson SW movie instead of a SW movie, that trilogy will falter.

 

My guess is that those small details are basically the extent to which the story group or other LF staff is allowed to suggest changes or additions while the writers and directors have complete authority over the rest of the movie.

But yes, the dissonance between the result and the seemingly frictionless production has been baffling me or a while now. The conclusion that there are no "mistakes" in the movie but it is in fact 100% exactly as intended by the creators is just too depressing.

I think some small concession of mistakes by RJ (like JJ apologising for Chewie not hugging Leia in the end of TFA, even though that was such a small thing compared to all of TLJ) would go a long way to calm down TLJ haters. Like: "Okay, maybe we shouldn't have inserted those flashbacks literally showing Luke igniting his saber to kill his nephew. Just leaving it as hear-say, Kylo's word against Luke's would have left more room for interpretation there."
Instead we get alternating attempts to label all critics as bigots and somehow sell TLJ as deep and layered ("Hey, did you know the movie is all about failure? That's why all that stupid stuff actually is genius!")

Not to mention the completely different weather. At first I thought, alright maybe sometimes the clouds move fast and the sun comes out suddenly but when I watched the two scenes cut together it was incredibly jarring. It does not fit together at all.

 

The choice of planets wasn't good too. I felt the most part of the movie being on Earth.

 

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 7, 2018, Original Post Date: Apr 7, 2018 ---

 

disney star wars feels like it is being made by someone who hates star wars after 1980

Rogue one felt like the worst type of fanboy "explanationalizing" for a plot hole in new hope. Why did they have to make it so that it was a complex conspiracy by a scientist? Why cant they embrace the idea that fans love that Luke shot was one in a million. It screams a star wars fan that wants to get rid of a plot hole that bugged him since childhood.

TLJ...why cant you say that snoke was plagueis, why is it so hard for them to say that dudes name. IT feels like they didn't want to reference the prequels too much even though making snoke plagueis would have completely deflated the backlash of his death. It also would have fitted perfectly with the family theme of the entire saga. But referencing plagueis means referencing prequels and that scares them to the core.

TFA: why the hell is there no real nuance or detail in any of the politics or villians in TFA. Why couldnt the republic be the good guys. Why did the resistance have to be a faction when the republic fills that role perfectly. Why is han a smuggler again, why did luke han and leia live seperate lives. Why go with a world war 2 rehash when the previous trilogy was based on the same war? WHERE IS MY COLD WAR SETTING!!!!!!!! because abrams absolutely hates any star wars movie after empire strikes back and created a setting where one could easily drop and ignore return of the jedi. the knights of ren are perfect examples of this....not only are they an attempt to return the dark siders to their "episode 5" selves of being nameless, but snoke looks like the emperor from the pre-special edition played by elaine baker...right down to the sloppy on one side face. Do not believe me http://boards.theforce.net/threads/marjorie-eaton-the-original-emperor.50033425/

looks like snoke sloppy face

Obi wan and Vader in the sequel trilogy are another problem....anakin's birth name is never referenced, nor is the prophecy(apparently they are ashamed of anakin as well), Obi wan is never even talked about let alone makes a appearance because they realized that putting obi wan in this trilogy means that they will have to hire a prequel era actor, and prequel references beyond one scene horrifies them worst than satan.

Disney star wars feels like it is being made by someone who is ashamed of star wars after empire strikes back and that they want to return star wars back the status quo of those 2 movies...nameless dark side factions, empire vs rebels, impotent skywalkers, a sequel trilogy that feels like a sequel to empire strikes back rather than return of the jedi, a luke who never mentions vader in positive terms, single leia and han


please tell me anyone else noticed the above elements