THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

I still remember that day in november 83. Light rain, had the novelization for several months, my father took me to see it in Madrid, cinema Luchana, 2nd hall. Still touches my hart the most. And I didn't know anything about the first two movies until 85 and our new vhs recorder. BTW greetings from Prague

 

For me ROTJ was not even the first Star Wars movie, it was indeed the first movie in cinema at all. We could not really afford it at that time due to the illness of my mother, but all the things I read about this movie in this little youth magazine (Bravo) wanted me to see it. Never regretted it and the movie gave me so much hope.

BTW have been a lot of times in Czech Republic (Vizovice) for concerts.

 

I'm trying to think back on how much enthusiasm I saw for R1 prior to it's premiere and as I recall it wasn't the same level of hype as the Episodic movies. Ironically, I think these stand alone movies rely more heavily on hard core fans for box office numbers than the new audience that they were courting because we know these characters (Han, Chewie, Lando) the new audience doesn't really. If the plan was to "cater" to hard core fans with stand alones and try to use the ST to bring in new fans what happens if the Hard Cores fan don't support either of them going forward?

At the least it would probably put a pause on developing anymore stand alones with established characters.

 

Wow! First movie and right this one...you really know how to pick the best. I'm glad it helped you in the real life. Younglings these days don't know what is it to look at Star Wars vhs behind the glass of a store and be unable to watch it, becouse you don't have the player or the money and you have to wait for years....So du bist rock maedchen? I only go to Depeche Mode concerts, but every time they are here . BTW looks like here the first day of Solo wasn't massively attended as the past three openings....one can only hope..

 

Ren is one of the biggest mistakes. Every time he's on the screen, you just can't help but remember that this has been shot and written by a different guy. It's literally like a fanfic. Everything that made Ren what he was in TFA is evaporated. One word and he no longer obsesses over his granddaddy. He also seemingly forgets about his knights. Remember those?

This movie is so obviously... a movie. Like them or hate them, but the prequels were so tidy in that respect. All made sense, and felt like a logical continuation. Which is fantastic, considering that Lucas didn't really know where he was going.

I'm pretty sure Rian hated most of the TFA and wanted to retcon it bad.

 

And he's asking Rey to let go while being unable to be completely mad about his own past.

This is so badly written. Every scene is contradicting the previous one and will be contradicted by the next one.

There is no coordination at all.

The director just took what was written by others during 7 movies, burned it down and went away with a smile while bringing nothing to the table.

How lazy ...

 

Because Rian Johnson threw a different coat of paint on the same characters from VIII and VI and changed their characters into what he wanted them to be instead of what they were. Snoke wanted Rey in TFA after Kylo brought to his incredulous attention that Rey was strong with the Force and resisted him, and Kylo Ren was obsessed with his creepy grandpa in TFA. In TLJ Snoke just wanted to know where Luke was and to kill Rey, and Kylo becomes this quiverlipped guru about letting go of the past.

 

And the funny thing is that Snoke connected Rey and Kylo, knowing Rey was with Luke and still wondering where was Luke Skywalker ...

Seriously ...

Kylo Ren saw Luke in a vision with Rey ... Met him one day later and didn't notice Luke changed his hair ( maybe it's a family thing ... I've changed my hair once again ) and was completely different from the dude he saw in the vision.

Also Luke was fighting with the lightsaber he just destroyed in the fight with Rey 1 hour ago.

What a mess.

 

who Luke Skywalker is, I think this explains everything.

 

First shot of Luke as a force ghost in ep IX.

 

Yeah. Kylo was connected to Rey's mind and Snoke was connected to Kylo's mind and thus connected to Rey's mind. Why the **** didn't either Kylo or Snoke know where Luke was?

And Luke's Lightsaber should have been green. It was also the one Kylo last saw Luke with when he thinks he tried to kill him.

 

I don't think you can gain anything by applying strict logic to how the Force works, particularly Rey and Snoke's connection in TLJ. You can't insist that connection meant Snoke could read the minds of Rey and Kylo. You can't insist because it's mystical and defies logical analysis.

I think when we deconstruct the Force like this, it loses almost all of its allegorical strength and certainly taints the entire thing by forgetting it's a literary device, a metaphor for how being connected to the universe around you can empower and enlighten you.

The Force isn't scientific and it is also a two-way street, it not only obeys your commands, it also can control your actions.

As for the color of the light saber, Luke didn't know Anakin's saber had been destroyed and tried to project an image that was iconic and familiar to Kylo, he looks distinctly different in his projection and this was one of several clues "tipping" the audience that something was off, including of course the footprints, the quiet, reserved reaction of 3PO and most certainly that look Leia gives him as he hands over the dice.

I think it's totally okay to dislike TLJ. I could (and probably have) written reams as to why I intensely dislike Revenge of the Sith (a film that does much more to taint and kinda ruin original concepts than any of the films in my opinion). Heck, I don't even like Rogue One. So we all have our favorites.

But I kinda scoff at the idea of "logical consistency" when it comes to the Force, it's an allegorical, literary device meant to promote the concept of mysticism. It's meant to defy logic and even the greatest Jedi can't fully explain or understand it, so it's constructed to have all kinds of room for writers to use to paint a story. You can't judge or measure it like gravity or strong/weak atomic force.

What I like about TLJ the most, is it dared to be bold. It made each character do things that didn't seem possible by the end of TFA. Poe disobeys the Resistance, Finn agrees to give up his life for the Resistance, Rey disavows Luke's teachings and works in tandem with Kylo and Kylo kills his mentor that he spent the entire first film obeying to the point he commits parracide for him.

The weakness of TLJ is some of the delivery, the very choppy transitions between the story threads and the weak, awful CGI and art design of Canto Bight. That and that damn annoying screech of the Porg, which sounds worse than a cat's claws across a chalkboard.

This is just my dumb opinion of course, but feel this thread could use just a little contrary viewpoint from those who like TLJ. It's not my favorite Star Wars film, but I'd rather watch it over any prequel film, including Rogue One.

 

So Luke could know Leia and Rey are on Crait ( how do Rey know she has to go to Crait ( and Finn and Rose ) is a mystery ... ) and Snoke can put a force link on Rey on Acht To and not by a simple deduction know where Skywalker is ?

That's one of the main problem I have with this movie, everybody is stupid except BB8.

 

I think where people are looking "logical consistency" is within the story, and then within the larger Franchise, of which the Force is part of both. I don't think we have to quantify every aspect of The Force, but even it has to conform to a degree of logical consistency. That is to say, the Franchise has established a framework in which the Force works. It's supernatural compared to our world, but in the GFFA it's simply how things are. But there are still parameters in the GFFA which govern the Force. Qui Gon is dead. He can't all of a sudden show back up alive and the explanation simply be "The Force". There were parameters placed on what the Force could do in ESB and ROTJ. If that has changed, they have an obligation to competently and intelligently explain why. Snoke was able to look into Kylo's mind without making physical contact with him. What is the reason he couldn't do it with Rey? That is a fair question. Yoda is able to physically tap Luke with his cane and call down lightning. Why couldn't Luke use the lightning to strike the Mega Walkers? As the franchise expands how the Force can be used, I think it is fair game to question the logic surrounding it's application.

Fair observation (regrading the changes in the characters). I do not regard these (personally) as particularly bold. Finn went from being willing to die for someone other than himself, to being willing to die for the Resistance (and given what was his impetus to choose the Resistance there is really nothing remarkable about this storytelling IMO). Rey disavows Luke's teachings, but lets be honest, he made it awfully easy to do. And Poe's disobedience feels like a personality retcon from TFA. Maybe it was Rian's intent to show them doing things that didn't seem likely after TFA, but they way he went about trying to display it left a lot to be desired (IMO).

 

Remember this little thingie?

It was very heavily established in the film that this homing beacon will tell Rey, an owner of the same device, where the other homing beacon is.

Regarding Rose and Finn - when the First Order learned of the Resistance's plan all of its transporters were going onto Crait, Finn and Rose heard about that. I'm not sure if the officer who tells that to Hux mentioned that they were specifically flying towards Crait or not. If not, it doesn't matter either way. The planet was right there, it was very clearly visible and it occupied quite a lot of space on the sky. To paraphrase you - they knew by "simple deduction."

And the last aspect - the Force connection. Why do we assume that he needed to know where Rey was to connect them? Had he known her location, he'd have sent Kylo to get her, wouldn't he?

 

Apparently no because he didn't.

Luke knew where Leia was through the Force because noone ever told Luke they were going to Crait ... So if Luke could do that, I don't see why Snoke couldn't.

 

Shoddy, pathetic writing from a weak writer.

 

But you're assuming that Snoke had to know where Rey was. Why? Based on what? There is no precedent for such a Force power in previous SW films, so we can only base our knowledge of this power on The Last Jedi and at no point in it it is said that Snoke knew where Rey was. If the movie doesn't establish the fact that Snoke had to know the exact location of people whose minds he's bridging, then he didn't have to know the exact location of people whose minds he's bridging.

Also, there's this tiny little detail that Luke and Leia are siblings, who love each other very much and care for each other. That's why Palpatine didn't know Luke came on Endor but Vader did - Vader loved his son and Luke cared for his father. I mean, we don't delve too deeply into Snoke's emotional life, but I don't really suspect him of having any sort of positive feelings towards Rey, a person he's only heard about two, maybe three times.

 

All Kylo and Snoke have to know is the coordinates to Ahch-To and the map to Ahch-To which Rey knows since she drove the Falcon there in the first place.

 

It's somewhat off topic but since there are a lot of people here who want to boycott Solo I thought I'd just quickly tell everyone that it's the polar opposite of TLJ in just about every possible way. I really liked it a lot. Fast paced action, humour (including some goofy stuff) that actually works, so so many connections to the larger galaxy. If you want to skip it to send a message that's your thing but I really think Solo might be the perfect palate cleanser to remove TLJ's bad taste and get back onto the Star Wars train for a lot of people.

Apart from general stuff like characters and humour it even did two very specific things from TLJ much much better:

Spoiler: Solo Spoilers

Freeing the slaves on Kessel and getting away in the ensuing chaos was such a drastic contrast to Canto Bight and armoured female antagonist Enfys Nest is already both more badass and more developed than Phasma.