THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

i do get your point, and it's good that you personally are fine posting elsewhere.

the problem isn't the thread. I don't like it, and i'd delete the sucker if i could.. but as always it's people that are the problem. it's people judging other people.
we can't delete them (i know.. pity ) so we either live around them like we have been trying to, or we face up to them and work it out.

fisticuffs out on the street is better than segregation.. anything is better than that. maybe that's just me.

there's a saying that goes something like.. "never go to sleep on an argument", and i feel like these threads allow just that.

i have posted in here many times (i liked TLJ) but because of the thread title.. i don't feel like i should be in here.

i will have been here for 4 years in september, and i have never felt unwelcome in a thread until now.

that just cannot be right can it?

 

That's what I was afraid of. The fanbase is divided and I figured that people who were upset with TLJ would take it out on Solo. I'm glad to hear that you thought it was good since we are in agreement on the abomination of TLJ. That gives me hope that I may enjoy it too. I know it's over a year and a half away, but I can't wait to see the opening box office numbers for Ep. IX. Will fans be over the disappointment of TLJ and go to IX anyway, or will they wait to see it and/or boycott it all together? That should be interesting.

 

It will depend on the marketing and promotion. If it's anything like TLJ. There are going to be problems.

 

@Maximus that is why I said we all are responsable.
Unfortunately I think that not feeling welcomed has become a common feeling here or elsewhere.

 

I'm not sure if it' boycot or not, but a week or two ago the opening weekend was said to be 170, today it changed to 110

--- Double Post Merged, May 26, 2018, Original Post Date: May 26, 2018 ---

It's not boycot to everyone. I won't see Solo and I said that a year or two ago. I was never interested in Solo origin. I won't see 9 because 8 didn't convince me that I want to see what's next. But I do look forward to see Obi-Wan McGregor movie

 

No one outside the US (except few people like us - european or something else - here)
knows anything about the boycott.

But the international BO is even worse than that in US ... so?

The "we all leave in a bubble" theory is my favourite theory at the moment.

People decisions around the globe have nothing to do with some youtube channels
and with the MD week end, that doesn't existe elsewhere....

There's something more about it...

 

I never understood the need for a young Han Solo movie. I always feared it would undercut the established characters. Also I think Disney have found it a handy tool to embelish past relationships in order to push future films like TLJ to make sense of a new vision. Which is quite frankly appallingly insensitive and just utterly atrocious.

 

What I have noticed thus far is that people who enjoyed TLJ seemed to be coming up with a spirited defense of why SOLO's numbers may be low with the only prerequisites that there is no backlash, and if there is a backlash it isn't due to TLJ. I am curious if there is ANYTHING that would convince them that maybe TLJ is a problem.

Do I think there is such a thing as fatigue? Yes. For some reason it's not affecting the MCU films, but maybe SW fans really are different and don't need a movie every year. The fan that I am, if there was a SW movie every year, I would go to see each one. There are other factors that can have an affect but I honestly think that at some point, you have to sit down and consider the possibility, maybe TLJ was/is part of the problem.

I expect it to create a head wind for SOLO and EPIX at the least.d I think with a more traditional SW delivery and execution in SOLO and EPIX that maybe it's possible to put the TLJ incident behind us.

 

wow.

I’m actually tempted to pretend to hate the film so that I’m not talked about like there’s something wrong with me, and to not be referred to as ‘them’.

 

36 M for friday....Disney, we have a problem...Deadpool a week ago almost 20 more. They will be lucky if this movie pays itself. The question is - will they find the right answer to "Why?"

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2018, Original Post Date: May 27, 2018 ---

Look at the spin offs so far. Two stories about something we knew happened and we knew how it ends. The plan was stolen, the Kessel was won. No surprise, no tension, no Lucas's brain to invent a really new story I suppose...

--- Double Post Merged, May 27, 2018 ---

I was really worried when announced a movie every year. Not that I wouldn't go to see it. Every 3 years made a SW movie a truly special event, like Christmas. Once a year over saturates the franchise, but the most important thing, lows considerably the quality in everyway. So yes, I would be happy for a movie every 3 years. A movie I would buy a bluray and watch it so many times after. Comics movies I enjoyed in the time of Batmans, Spidermans and the first Iron Man movies. Then it's so often and so generic I'm not watch it in the theater.

 

I think these threads were a necessary evil, and that's probably why moderators kept them up.

After TLJ, everyone's emotions were sky high. Those who loved it saw no flaws and shamelessly called it a masterpiece (some still do, and that's cool). Those who hated it called it absolute garbage (some still do, and that's fine too). Having those 2 extremes in every thread would have destroyed any attempt at civil conversation.

Allowing us to create safe zones allowed both sides to either vent or praise in amazement the worst and best parts without getting attacked. Because lets face it, those first 2 or 3 months after TLJ you couldn't say anything, for or against TLJ without having someone attack you or challenge your statement. I'm not that guy who needs to only talk to people who agree with me, but it is nice from time to time to not have to fight or explain every issue I had with it and just talk with someone who agrees or saw other things that bothered us.

I think the same goes for those who loved it. It had to suck to say this or that part was awesome just to be voted down and have people challenge or talk smack about it. I don't think everyone involved was necessarily a troll either, it was just emotions were very high, and it brought out the worst in some of us, at some times.

I personally don't have an issue with the "hate, love, mixed" threads, but I do get why you do. I think your assumption that things would be better without them is flawed though. Those threads are the clearly marked battle fields/war zones, where you know entering them the numbers likely won't be in your favor. So you can stay out or take on multiple opponents. Having discussions, even heated ones is fine, but I think moderators mostly got involved when individuals crossed lines by attacking the person and not the issue. I don't think the people who did that were bad, but they were emotional (I got my slap on the hand too) and needed to stpe back and gain perspective.

Maybe these threads are not as important as they once were, but I also think everyone is taking their own journey post TLJ. Who am I to judge how, and where they need to take that journey? I think this split will exist and will be necessary until the ST is done. Hopefully afterwards we can all become one fandom without the labels we all despise.

 

I came out of TLJ with a reaction close to hate for the movie, something I have only really experienced a few times before(just about always for hopless story telling). That feeling still persists but I still went to see Solo.

I think if Solo tanks it is a combination of fans being ticked off from TLJ, many not having a great desire to see it in the first place, lukewarm reviews and other local reasons.

 

Lol, now I'm mad to TLJ for affecting Solo's ticket sales.
Even if I didn't plan to see it.

 

Inspired by @Maximus

Quick bit of insight on the current sub-topic of places for fans to vent, based on my three decades of seeing SW internet communities. Well, not quick, it'll be long, but it's relevant for those who weren't around for the prequel internet days....

I love TLJ, first off. But I think it's important to have "Safe places" to bash the hell out of the films on fan forums. Why? Because this is a fan forum, and so you are going to meet the most passionate fans you can possibly meet. Most people who are regular "Star Wars fans" don't go on forums. Maybe they'll post on reddit or a Youtube thread, at most. So the people here care a lot, which means in divisive or negative subjects--it's a minefield just waiting for someone to try to navigate it. You hate the film a lot, but I'm here because I love the film a lot, and we have strong feelings. One side feels betrayal, and the other doesn't want to see something they love battered; conversely, me loving the film might make someone feel outrage, while the other person crapping over it might make me feel like my tastes are being belittled. So arguments are inevitable, and they have the potential to get personal when the opinions are still fresh. And I think one of the best ways of preventing that is to leave mindless gushing and mindless bashing to their respective parts. That way, when we cross paths on the more neutral threads, the conversation can be constructive because we can agree to disagree and be more patient, knowing there are threads where we can have the "me-too!" echo-chamber we all secretly enjoy.

Here is an anecdote from the prequel era days of 1999-2005. Some here may not have been on the forums back then, and us Star Wars fans learned some lessons the hard way.

Back then Theforce.net was like THE place to be for SW postings, before FB and YT and social media and reddit, and before a lot of other forums, it had by FAR the biggest user count and was the monopoly on SW sites, and when the prequels were coming out the threads were getting DOZENS of posts BY THE MINUTE. Every day. For years. And when Phantom Meance came out, it was ugly. Ugly. I laugh whenever people say TLJ is the most divisive SW film, because it's not. The Phantom Menace is. It was the first time anyone experienced a bad Star Wars film. Return of the Jedi had Ewoks, but it wasn't bad, and the trilogy was like this holy, sacred thing, untouchable, it was like Citizen Kane x3, and George Lucas was this mysterious god-like figure like John Lennon or Stanley Kubrick, held on a golden pedestal--it was all so revered. It was all flawless. And then Phantom Menace came out, and most or many thought it was bad. Not just "not great", but disappointingly bad.

It was shattering for some. A Star Wars film, written and directed by The Creator (with a capital C)--bad??? It was so bewildering that people first went into denial--they didn't even know how to process it. But then came the anger and resentment. And it was a deluge. It was really the internet's first experience with fan backlash, and it was a monster, people made entire websites to bash the film back when making a website was this big deal. The phrase "George Lucas raped my childhood" became a meme with no social media. Think about that. Imagine all the rage some people feel about TLJ if the prequels had been cultural icons of epicness that got rave reviews and won Oscars like LOTR did--imagine what you would feel towards TLJ and the people supporting it if it were the first time you had encountered a Star Wars movie not only "not great" but bad. The prequels fractured the fandom like nothing before or since, and it took everyone off guard because we thought they would be better than the OT, by a long shot.

What happens when you mix this group of people in with people that didn't mind it, or worse, loved it? You get flame wars and arguments like you've never seen. And on forums like TheForce.Net it just festered and got worse and worse because there was no precedent to steer anyone. So it was a wild west of personal attacks and flame wars for a long time. And the opinions were really out of control when people were logging in just to hate the film, and you can imagine how the people who loved it felt. On TFN you had collective groups of people called "The TPM Defense Force" with their own threads and everything who would just go around butting in other threads defending the film as their M.O. just because there were so many "bashers" (now called "haters"). Conversely, there were groups of fans who also just went around bashing the film vehemently just to sort of "stick it" to the film. It began to get personal. Mods had to step in, but they didn't know what to do. People were banned. Temporary and permanent. Posts were deleted and edited, as the forum tried to be family-friendly. The mods began to be attacked for their damage control. People defended the mods, and then people would attack the defenders. And given that it was a forum for fans (i.e. people liking the films), the mods soon started biasing against those bashing the film. Which of course caused more drama--fascism and censorship! The thought police, and everything, right? Eventually, as fans called it there was a "purge" of bashers by the mods, and eventually many started leaving voluntarily as they viewed the whole thing as a big Lucasfilm circle jerk, but those who liked the prequels would also say "if we can't love the films on fan forums where can we go?" It's good points on both sides.

The site did have some ties to official and semi-official business, and there were all sorts of rumours about behind the scenes decisions. As you can see it was a mess. And it just fostered further resentment, which may have led to those forums eventually falling apart.

The solution they eventually came up with was something called the prequels "Bashers Sanctuary", a place where people could voice critical opinions that didn't always need to be constructive. A place to vent, or just talk about all the ways the films let you down. By that point, it was too little too late, if this happened right away a lot of problems would have been averted. In fact, I believe originaltrilogy.com forums were kind of created as a response in some ways, for the OT fans to have a place without prequels, because it came to that.

But my point of all this was that TheForce.Net, which is still around but barely a sliver of what it once was--no site is today, it's all fragmented into various sites and blogs and social media--they had to find out the hard way that it's hard to silence people who love the franchise who had a bad experience. And it can lead to a toxic split if we all try to mix it up together because we won't always be civil and constructive. And the best way to prevent this is for a place to vent mutual love and hate. A sanctuary.

So anyway, that my experience of being on Star Wars message boards since 1998. Let people vent in a safe place if they want! They get over it, eventually, and so do the people who love the films like the second coming of Jesus, and in a few years time we can all co-mingle with no problems. There are no personal arguments about the prequels on these forums, really, so keep in mind the above story and now consider that. But safe places are necessary for hurt fans when the wounds are raw.

My two cents, anyway.

 

@Sargon & @Sparafucile

Great posts
I’ll post my thoughts when I can get to a keyboard.. I don’t have the patience on my iPhone

 

Interesting, looks like certain facets of history definitely repeated. The story of how this thread came to be has been provided repeatedly so I won't belabor anyone with retelling it yet again, however it had a similar rationale as what TFN apparently did too late on their board. It was never about making anyone feel excluded and when you create a thread you have no control over how people are going to personally react to it (or even internalize it). Still I think this thread has served a highly useful purpose (and if I'm being totally honest, so did the "Love Thread" and the "Didn't Hate It but Didn't Love it Thread"). I think the mods have handled the existence of the thread and the cross communication (between different groups) fairly well. No one (to my knowledge) has been banned for expressing contrary views than the thread focus. As time has gone on, I think a fair amount of reasoned and civil debate have occurred (though honestly I think it has less to do with your position and more with how it's been presented).

I know I am in the minority here but I didn't hate the PT. I hated a few aspects here and there, but overall I enjoyed the trilogy and it's in my video library. TLJ is the first SW movie that I feel like isn't a SW movie. It has SW characters and technology but it isn't a SW story (to me) and I don't think that position will change. And while most of you all looking forward to EPIX, I'm thinking about the next trilogy after that and if it will be better planned, better told, and better executed. I don't think JJ can save the trilogy in the last installment; I just think it's too much of a lift and too much of an ask.

 

I love Star Wars. I grew up with the Original Trilogy, and I've never hated the prequels. Yes, they have issues, and are not as good has the original trilogy, but they do feel like Star Wars, that is something The Last Jedi did not have for me. I personally don't accept it as cannon. I liked the Force Awaken well enough, yet felt that so much of the story needed explanation before I could judge it.

I liked Rey's character, but currently her abilities do not make sense. She is far too overpowered without any reason to explain it.

As for The Last Jedi, it has divided the fanbase. This seems intentional by the Writer/Director. Skip to 1:07 of this video to hear him say it himself:

The dominant question I have is why any company which desires to maximize a franchise's money making potential would hire a person that thinks like that to write, and direct such a important film to that franchise.

I feel the saddest I ever have when thinking about Star Wars after watching TLJ, and it seems I am meant to. I am also not surprised at the effect of is having on Solo, and I am certain Episode IX will suffer as well if the current course is maintained.

None of this makes me feel good. I understand some people get a feeling of pleasure to attack, and troll other people, or films in this case, but I do believe that most people here are fans that when they express concerns, are like myself, and do so out of a state of disappointment.

 

Remember how I wrote that I expect Solo to be somewhere around 700? I was wrong. It will be happy to reach 500 and officially it's a financial disaster and it will not pay itself. KK almost destroyed the franchise in just 4 movies. Wow........

 

Hm, I think people around the world are much like me. In a franchise, you fall in love with characters, ongoing story, and sometimes a whole Universe as rich as SW. Now, if that were to be "killed and forgotten", as seems to be the underlying theme of TLJ, people might actually not like that.. Most can handle a bad movie...but not something that tampers with the original themes that made you like it in the first place.

Some thought TLJ was great, som mediocre, some actually hated it. That is all fine, people are different. I think the ones who hated it did so because it ruined their feellings towards the whole story. Those people might not see another SW movie as a pleasurable event, and will not show up. I amn one of them. I do not hate the movie per se, much too strong a word, but I conclude that it made me lose my interest in episode 9, and I guess Solo as an innocent bystander. I've heard about the boycot, but I think the general audience does not. They see or don't see films in a franchise based on their previous experiences. TLJ reduced the fan following, and we now see the results.

 

There are some that will never admit that TLJ is a problem. I don't see how you can deny that this film is divisive and split the fan base. I guess it's easier to stick your head in the sand and spew nonsense that it's only overweight, basement dwelling fanboy losers that dislike TLJ. And no, I'm not talking about you @Maximus! You seem open minded and fair in your discussions with us TLJ "haters."

I've seem some of the news on Solo's box office. You will never convince me that the lower than expected numbers are not due to TLJ. There are a lot of people that are still mad about that movie and are boycotting. I have no problem with someone writing off SW after TLJ, though I haven't. I did see Solo this afternoon and thought it was pretty good. It's not Oscar quality by any means, but it was a fun and entertaining side story for the most part. Do I want to run back to the theatre and watch it over and over? No, but I found it enjoyable enough and was glad to not walk out of a SW movie ticked off like I was last December.