THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

If I come next to your bed with a gun while you are sleeping, I would be very surprised if the judge says : Oh it's OK, you're a pacifist, no big deal ...

Once again, this is what is shown on screen.

 

So its okay for Vader to be redeemed? He did way more worse acts then Luke attempting to kill his nephew.

 

Well, that could explain your problem with Rotten Tomatoes

( It's a joke ... )

 

He says the it's time for the Jedi to end. He tells Rey to leave. He then trains her. He cuts himself off from the force. He then reaches out to Leia. I see plenty of conflict in Luke.

This is a fine opinion to have, but what evidence do you have to support it? IMDb supports the idea that women aren't as likely to rate a film. However, on IMDb younger women gave TLJ the highest ratings. Furthermore, what does this have to do with the fact that older men like the film the least? Do you have any evidence to suggest otherwise? Keep in mind sites like Reddit/YouTube are dominated by men. Men make up most of the traffic on YouTube/Reddit.

His conflict to me is completely consistent with his character, his arc in the film. It's believable and the most compelling part of the film for those reasons.

I'm not sure what a judge has to do with what I wrote or about Luke not acting on what he saw. We have several films of Skywalkers behaving irrationally. Luke is still Luke. He's still a Skywalker. He had a moment of weakness and he paid for it.

 

Actually, if we have to interprate what it is on screen as ' this is not really on screen ... "

It's complicated ...

 

http://observer.com/2018/07/film-crit-hulk-the-beautiful-ugly-and-possessive-hearts-of-star-wars/

 

^ skimmed it and again, people like the author still don't get it. They are looking at the surface of peoples issues and going with hardcore fans. And the one section about how black fans feel but then nothing else beyond "I get it, but not really, so let me explain why you're wrong".

 

Thought this was very insightful into what is going on. It is really sad that quite a few fanatics can't see this: (Disney should really get on the ball soon)

 

It never ceases to amaze me how much the apologists defend anything and everything Kennedy, Johnson, or any LFL has said to troll the fandom. They have a quite convenient excuse for everything.

"Oh this was tongue-in cheek.... oh that was directed at the racists, not people like you... oh he didn't mean it when he said....." (etc.)

 

And what I find truly amazing is how the haters manage to interpret everything coming from KK, RJ and LFL as direct insults and part of some ongoing war against the fanbase.
RJ in a tweet suggested no to feed one specific troll? "He called the fans "manbabies"!!!". KK wore at t-shirt at an Adidas event? "She is an anti-male SJW!!!". Etc. etc.

 

Except it was in this case. Would you rather be called a racist then? Cause I can easily do that if that makes you feel better.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inverse.com/amp/article/18468-rian-johnson-your-snoke-theory-sucks

 

I watched half of this video and there's nothing new in there. It's a guy making wide generalizations. Is there something in there you want to piggyback on or explain? What's insightful about it? What's in this video that I can't see?

A good way to separate yourself form the toxic fanbase is quit acting like Rian Johnson is doing anything wrong. If Rian Johnson discussing trolls bothers you then maybe you need to look at why that bothers you.

 

Beautifully stated!

All the more proof this is really nothing to do with Star Wars and everything to do with an internet culture war that trolls on Reddit are losing very badly. It's tough to be on the losing side of history, but make no mistake the world so many of these trolls yearn for is long gone and mercifully is never coming back.

Let's remember these idiots love to attack women in the franchise behind the safety an anonymous computer. It's a disgusting tactic that none of us should endorse or defend.

It's okay to not like TLJ. Let me be clear about that. It's not okay to turn that dislike into hostility towards the people who crafted it.

I happen to despise Revenge of the Sith, so I totally get it. As much as I think ROTS is a lazy, hastily cobbled product, rushed through production so fast even Ian McDiarmid criticized it, I'd never go on Twitter and harass celebrities I don't know, just because I spent a lousy ten dollars on a film I didn't like.

It's no longer about the film though, it has become a toxic soup of misogyny. So much of that behavior can't be defended.

And all of us, regardless of whether we liked or disliked TLJ should loudly condemn the actions that led to Kelly Marie Tran to quit social media. What an ugly and sad moment for the Star Wars franchise that was.

 

I will repeat myself, yet again: He only agrees to teach her because he believes teaching her will be the only way to convince her that the Jedi need to end. That's where the contradiction lies. Wanting the Jedi to end and being hell-bent on destroying its continuation, to the point where he came to its island of origin and tried twice to destroy their sacred doctrine, does not translate to teaching someone how to feel the Force like a Jedi.

That's like Hannibal Lecter swearing never to be a cannibal again, and to end cannibalism worldwide, and does this by showing a friend how to barbecue babies to enlighten them on why cannibalism needs to end.

Most of what I've gathered is by talking to female fans, and having them weigh on the issue female interactivity with online polls. It's purely anecdotal, sure, but I trust that a whole lot more than broad assumptions about the gender disparity regarding this film.

I should also mention that just because men make up a large chunk of the dissenters to the film doesn't mean they're all older men. In fact, in my experience, older men seem to make up the largest percentage of the people defending this film. The male voices I come in the most frequent contact with that hate this film are younger fans, most of which weren't even around when the OT was out.

Regardless, it isn't just my opinion, it is my experience on the matter. It's not much, but it's far more tangible than casting large swaths of assumption over the fanbase. The female fans over at r/SaltierThanCrait certainly wouldn't appreciate being lumped together with "older Star Wars-hating men."

How is it consistent that he suddenly becomes emotionally ravaged when he sees the destruction of the books he came all the way out here to destroy? He spends every moment with Rey berating the Jedi and emphasizing that they need to end, and then at last minute he he seems more distraught over the destruction of the books than he is over hearing the news of Han Solo's death.

That's not conflict. Conflict has clues of contrasting emotions that lead up to a decision. Luke's relation with the Jedi up till this point in the movie can't be called conflict---at best, it's bipolarity.

Yeah, he has the exact same moment of weakness he had 30 years ago when fighting Darth Vader in completely different circumstances, now as an older and more seasoned Jedi Master who should've learned from that experience by now.

Nothing regressive or nonsensical about this at all.

 

That's usually his MO for criticism. He actually gets both sides and wasn't be condescending about it, however, his scripts come off as jokes half the time.

And another issue I have is Kathleen Kennedy seems have gone into hiding, letting the actors, director, and staff do all the work when it comes to addressing fans. If she wants to be the leader she needs to step up and take a look at the state of the fandom.

 

Kathleen Kennedy is under no obligation to address fans. She doesn't owe them anything. They are not entitled to anything.

 

Maybe because Twitter didn't exist.

 

Yep. I'll need something better than that to convince that the people who like the film the least are men over 30. When I say "like it the least" it doesn't mean they all hate it. The majority of men over 30 still like TLJ.

Yoda lived for centuries and was probably the greatest Jedi of all time and still oversaw the greatest tragedy in Jedi history. It's a colossal failure he didn't foresee or prevent. I don't understand why it's difficult to believe Luke Skywalker wouldn't keep making mistakes.

I see it. You don't. Tomato/Potato. Not much gonna change that I don't think.

If she said something people would say she shouldn't say something. This tiny angry mob is never gonna be happy. Just let them be angry. Because...

Exactly.

 

Without customers paying for Star Wars, Star Wars is nothing. It isn't for free and it's not a charity we donate to. It's Lucasfilm and their supporters who think Star Wars is entitled to their money and adoration. Funny how that sort of mentality doesn't apply elsewhere. Like Batman v Superman - The Last Jedi's sibling of a movie - that people like 'Film Critic Hulk' tore apart.

 

And I'm going to need something more convincing than hand-wave assumptions. Especially when my personal experience says otherwise.

Yeah, except Yoda's mistake in the downfall of the Jedi Order, the misplaced oversight in Palpatine, and the participation of the Clone Wars weren't mistakes he had made before. I've said it once, and I'll say it one billion more times: I don't have a problem with characters being flawed or making colossal mistakes. But when they continue to make the same exact ones, especially the kind where the logic in their characterization would dictate that they would learn from said mistakes and never repeat them, it's not compelling and comes off as a lazy, foul writing. I wrote an entire paragraph justifying the use of flaws and character mistakes when done right.

I realize you have a blanket assumption that all people that disliked Luke's portrayal because they wanted him to be flawless, but I have made it an unyielding effort to vocalize how I don't fall in this category. I want Luke to have flaws, but those flaws have to make SENSE.

I have reiterated this point so many times at this point, that I actually wonder if you read what I post or not.