THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Luke gave himself to Vader, because Vader felt his presence on Endor. Luke also had a strategy behind what he was doing. He believed by giving himself to his father it would give the Rebellion enough time to deactivate the defense shields. The Emperor sent their best troops to Endor, because he felt their presence as well. Luke was willing to die if it came to that when he went to see his father. He said so to the Emperor.

Let's look at Rey. There was no military reason for doing what she did. Rey was repeating the same steps Han made, and at least with Han it made sense. Kylo is his son. Until Kylo took her against her will, she never heard of this dude before. Now she wants to blame Luke for Kylo turning when two weeks ago all she was thinking of was her family? For her to have spent the time on Jakku as long as she did waiting for her own family it was strange for her to blame Kylo's family for his turn. How could a character who as far as we know is good despite their upbringing can blame another family for their child turning bad? It's strange. When Finn went back to SKB to save Rey, he was doing something he said he would never do again. He was in a place of discomfort, but he did it for someone he cared about. Rey didn't do anything she wasn't uncomfortable doing. She didn't go to Kylo to save her best friend, and she didn't go to save the Resistance. She went to get Kylo. Which was stupid, and selfish. She hasn't sacrificed anything. Finn has sacrificed more than she has. In order to be seen as the hero you have to be willing to sacrifice comfort for discomfort. Rey going to Kylo wasn't discomfort.

 

When she boarded the falcon to go to Ach-To, she was going to find and bring back the last Jedi and the last hope of the resistance.

Luke refused to help, leaving Rey trying to find something.. anything to help the resistance. rather than go straight back to Leia and say "nope, sorry mate - he aint coming.. we're all doomed", she tried something audacious (stupid? audacious? maybe both). She risked her own life to try and bring Ben back.
i'm confused as to why you think she wasn't trying to save the resistance? she was pleading with Luke to go back with her to help them against the FO. he said no... she immediately went to get another from the same family.

i'm not arguing that she's a bigger hero than [insert whatever name you like here].. i'm just saying that in my opinion what she did was incredibly brave and heroic.

 

Being setback and idocy are two separate things. Running of to lie in the arms and start a toxic relationship is not what I would consider a setback or even a failure. It is a senseless motive and an old eighties trope of that of a bimbo.

A setback is a regression, an obstacle a stumbling block even.

Idiocy is a madness, An incipipty, a moment of senselessness.

Adding to the last sentence doesn't lessen this dumb notion of a 'Mary Sue'. All it does, is make her a dumb 'Mary Sue'. A worse character.

And yes I do hate the Mary Sue term.

 

Rey was abandoned by her parents when she was little, so at first she was stuck by her healing fantasy that the parents are going to come back and then she was clinging to anybody, who could replace said parents and give her a sense of belonging. In the end Rey realised that her parents aren't coming back (in any form) and that she should be her own person.
Are you sure you have watched the actual TLJ and not the remake (allegedly) being made? Because Rey doesn't overcome things that much easier, than Luke, Anakin, Jyn or Han, she is visibly shaken several times and overcoming abandonment issues is an extremely relatable situation to a lot of people.

 

Two characters have made decisions that have determined their fate going forward. Finn's unwillingness to kill the villagers, and Kylo's willingness to kill Snoke. Rey hasn't made a decision like that.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 4, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 4, 2018 ---

Then she needs to relate to the other characters that are in similar situations. Characters such as Finn and the stormtroopers in the FO.

 

I'm not arguing whether Luke was also foolish and arrogant to run off to Bespin after Yoda warned him, this I agree with you on and I know that we're supposed to see the parallels between ESB Luke and TLJ Rey, but they are so different. Luke was clearly conflicted about leaving his training and was upset about the vision where he sees his friends in pain. He does promise Yoda that he'll come back and complete his training. Big difference with the Rey scenario. After she gets her vision about Ben, she yells at Luke, fights him and then stomps off. That did not endear me to the character or make me feel anything positive toward what she was doing. Luke paid dearly for his foolish decision. He came out physically beaten down and emotionally rocked by his learning his true heritage. Rey had one wound on her arm and didn't seem to be all that upset about hearing how her drunken loser parents dumped her on Jakku. I get that we're supposed to see the Luke/Rey parallels and get all the feels, but it's falling flat to me. I don't see this awesome development and character arc for Rey. Maybe IX will turn that around but I don't have much hope at this point.

 

She refused Kylo Ren.

Why? Besides, Finn's stormtrooper situation isn't that similar.

 

As I said, comparing Rey of the middle episode of this trilogy to Luke of the final episode of the OT is the wrong comparison I think, so all that stuff about his reasons for delivering himself to Vader are irrelevant. We need to be comparing Rey's journey with Luke's journey in the TESB. That is the stage she is at.

Luke chooses and accepts his own death over killing his father and turning to the dark side, but only at the end of his arc in the third and final installment of the OT, so we can't compare Rey - who is only part way through her journey, to Luke when he is at the end of his.

Why does there have to be a 'military' reason?

 

You must have really great parents if you can't see why that can be traumatizing.

 

As I said in my other reply, Rey seems to shake off what Kylo said about her parents pretty darn quick. A couple of tears and then she's back to normal. And apparently she's always known the truth so it wasn't a big bombshell for her anyway. No, I haven't watched the remake of TLJ, I could barely make it through the real deal! However, I have watched enough of the other trilogies to know that Rey's supposed character arc is pretty weak when compared to the likes of Luke, Han, Jyn, etc.

 

A dumb Mary Sue???

Isn't that an oxymoron?

 

Oh good grief! I'm not arguing that it's traumatizing, I'm arguing about Rey's supposed reactions and growth from this "revelation." There's no comparison to the Luke/Vader moment, not matter how hard some try to spin it.

 

Got any data to back that statement up?

I just got back from Disneyworld in August and can report, based upon crowds and buzz about Galaxy's Edge, the franchise is most definitely alive and well.

 

Sure it did. Sure. Go with that. I would note that it's the 3rd biggest film ever despite it's missteps and mistakes, not because of them but... by all means... "Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc" to your heart's content.

*Reads "fan goggles"*

LOL, that train is never late is it? You can set you clock by people coming into this thread and asserting the issue is "head canon" and/or unrealistic expectations.
It is the answer to every question LOL.

 

Well, I've explained why Rey's arc is at least on par with the ones you mentioned. If you don't see it that way - fine.

Nothing is going to compare to the Luke/Vader moment, even the moment itself if somebody sees it the "wrong way". Why it's a powerful moment for Rey I've explained, and as for the audience - well, they seem to have been pretty shocked too. Some still are.

 

I really think what bugs me the most is how Rob humanizes Michael. Sometimes people are just born evil. I don't need a whole horrible up bringing to tell me that he is evil. It also seemed very unnecessary to drown the old janitor in the mop sink. I know already Michael has no human emotions or connections. Out of any in the entire series the remakes are definitely hardest to take. So knowing that we have about a month before the next one hits the screen I have some apprehension. I am glad to see Jaime Lee Curtis is back, so I will have to wait and see.

I also understand this is a SW forum and I just wrote something about the Halloween remakes, here is the thing I hate that movie so much a decade later I will write a review on how dumb it was on a forum that it doesn't fit in!! Because it doesn't say for those who hated a SW movie.

The Rob Zombie remake is just a total pile.

 

A Mary Sue is the polar opposite of a bimbo, as @LarsSkywalker has pointed out. Best to keep our women-berating terminology separate.

I don't think we saw the same film. In the film i saw Rey was heart-broken.

I honestly don't know what a woman needs to do to show her despair... Apparently tears and hopelessness are not enough... And how did Rey dare to wipe off those tears and keep on fighting after confronting the reality about her parentage? Why didn't she act exactly like Luke did in ESB? Didn't she read the memo?

 

The choices we make determines who we are. Between Finn and Rey. Finn has made the more difficult decisions. It's not even close. She has received most of the spotlight, but based on the choices she's made I don't see her as the hero. I guess she is suppose to be that, but they haven't done a good job. Rey is treated with kid gloves while Finn has the harder road.

Luke accepted he might die, long before the Emperor started shocking him. He thought he might die when his friends would destroy the death star.

It's called Star Wars. Why does Finn have to make all the sacrifices while Rey makes none?

 

Rey embraced a power within herself that terrified her. She also offered herself to the FO with the hope (a pointless hope as Luke had already warned her) to turn Kylo. These have been hard and brave decisions with great risk, important to the plot and Rey's character development. She still has not been put in a position to die for others. maybe she never will. Not all heroism needs to be self-sacrificing.

 

Tears, hopelessness and despair? Really? Go back and rewatch those scenes. They are so short and to the point and then we are onto the next thing. Also, we've been told over and over in this thread by certain people that we have no right to be disappointed by Rey's parentage because they don't matter and she (allegedly) always knew the truth. If they don't matter and Rey just needed to admit it to herself, then why should I care or feel much for her tears? I'm being told by the experts around here that it never mattered anyway and now she's found her real belonging with the resistance. So yeah, I'm sticking with my original assessment of the scene. She squeezed out a few tears and then joined up with her new "family" in the resistance. Yay for Rey.