1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Kript, Dec 13, 2017.

?

Which points do you agree were not well made and you did not like?

  1. 1.Luke as a character

    176 vote(s)
    55.5%
  2. 2.Phasma being wasted

    137 vote(s)
    43.2%
  3. 3.Forced and bad humor

    189 vote(s)
    59.6%
  4. 4.Finding out nothing about Snoke and his premature death

    167 vote(s)
    52.7%
  5. 5.Rey parents being nobodies

    118 vote(s)
    37.2%
  6. 6.Maz and Luke's lightsaber

    113 vote(s)
    35.6%
  7. 7.The knights of ren are forgotten and nowhere to be seen

    161 vote(s)
    50.8%
  8. 8.Leia flying through space scene

    204 vote(s)
    64.4%
  9. 9.Luke's weightless death

    136 vote(s)
    42.9%
  10. 10.The whole Finn and Rose plotline

    211 vote(s)
    66.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Posts:
    79
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    6,832
    Credits:
    867
    Ratings:
    +2,131 / 6 / -0
    This is like an AA meeting or a counciling session for me. To learn how others see things about this movie is refreshing. We all have our interests and passions. Some people like cars, others working out. Mine is Star Wars.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  2. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    33,588
    Trophy Points:
    155,667
    Credits:
    12,678
    Ratings:
    +35,651 / 40 / -21
    Well time tends to heal wounds. I'm just not sure why this thread has 255 pages to begin with. Was it that bad at launch?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Posts:
    908
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,070
    Ratings:
    +2,218 / 66 / -27
    Some fans have multiple issues with the movie. Not all fans have the same issues. Then fans who love the movie come in to debate whether the issue should be an issue, which often takes up 5 pages or more. From those discussions other people see different issues, some they hadn't been able to put their finger on, so then there are discussions that branch off of the other discussions.

    To be honest, I can't understand how someone can't understand the haters (even if they don't agree with them). We get people saying they didn't like Twilight or whatever movie and they didn't talk about it for months afterward. What is missed is that this isn't Twilight. People have emotions, time, money and more invested into this franchise, and for better or worse, this is now part of the saga. It deals with legacy characters, it adds nuance to the stories that have been told, it adds and expands canon, it adds characters and takes them away or makes some favorites less significant while making others more super significant and it adds or diminishes the world building. It's the first saga being told not by GL thus style and design, theme and pacing ect are all being analyzed. Is it under more scrutiny? Absolutely, but some fail to ask if it is also deserving of the added scrutiny, and I for one believe it is. It's a different creature.

    People in general resist change. The ST, especially after TLJ has underwent a whole lot of obvious change.

    Was it that bad at launch? Are you asking about the movie, or the criticism? It doesn't matter, because to some the answer is yes to both. I can only speak for myself, but my opinion is that TLJ has so many issues that I'm still discovering some nearly a year after its release. The death of Han and how little it effects the story so far, how people seem to not care much about it within universe (at least not those closest to him) is one such issue. With every other I've had with the movie, I felt this one, but never put my finger on it until it was mentioned. If nothing else, TLJ is a whirlwind of emotion. In that sense, RJ was a genius, I only wish it could have been positive emotion for me.

    When people come here and ask things like "How long are you going to keep this up?" type questions, it seeks to invalidate our opinion (even if that's not the intention, that's the perception). It lengthens the thread another page as people chime in. I've seen the page grow quiet a few times for days, so that for me tells me it is dying down, up until a month or two ago, every day there was a new post by somebody. I wouldn't say the hate or dislike is slowing, but most issues have been talked out. I have no issue with people coming here to ask questions or debate with someone who's willing, but don't deny us our opinion. Don't try and shame us or demean us for our passion. Often times, that re-invigorates us more than anything else. If you have nothing to contribute to a civilized discussion, I would say coming into our space and dismissing our opinion is a form of trolling. Most of us have little issue with answering questions about the issues we have with the movie.

    Lastly, I believe people keep coming here because we're hoping IX can somehow save what we perceive as the tragedy that is TLJ. Although we see it as unlikely, we are fans who by definition root for one in a million odds. Maybe it can't fix everything about TLJ and the ST, but maybe it can make it at least as tolerable as the PT, with different weaknesses and strengths.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    33,588
    Trophy Points:
    155,667
    Credits:
    12,678
    Ratings:
    +35,651 / 40 / -21
    That's my problem with the fandom: it's too passionate. Like you calling it "tragedy" as if its comparable to an actual tragedy were people died.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  5. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    610
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,166
    Ratings:
    +1,512 / 96 / -31
    The reason why this thread is so long is because, for some reason, the people who loved the movie felt the need to come in here and argue with those of us who didn't.

    This thread is about 5 times longer than the "loved it" thread because the "loved it" crowd came in here to argue whereas, for the most part, the "hated it" crowd left the "loved it" thread alone. I don't know why the people who loved it felt the need to come into the thread for those who hated it, so you'll have to ask them about their/your motivations.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2016
    Posts:
    1,919
    Likes Received:
    2,787
    Trophy Points:
    8,842
    Credits:
    3,578
    Ratings:
    +4,351 / 87 / -16
    I think LFL was fine having a passionate fandom as long as they were buying tickets and buying merchandise. The moment they realized the whole "subversion" bit didn't work and backfired, is when we got this media push about fans being "too intense".

    Fringe elements notwithstanding, I think the backlash (if even small in number) is strong in intensity but restrained in actually posing a danger to anything but profit margins. In short, I don't think any of us are too passionate. If you own SW you want your fan base to passionate, just not crazy. And I think being able to discuss what we don't like about TLJ is inherently healthy and reasonable. That's just my take.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  7. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    610
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,166
    Ratings:
    +1,512 / 96 / -31
    Nobody criticized the fan base for being "too passionate" when we were collectively making this movie saga the most valuable one on the planet. Star Wars/LFL has spent decades reaping the rewards of the passionate fan base, and encouraging more of the same. It is pretty disingenuous to now turn around and say "hey you guys shouldn't take all of this so seriously..!! stop being so passionate..!!"
    Sorry, but that's some pretty lame wordsmithing.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    1,906
    Likes Received:
    3,309
    Trophy Points:
    11,587
    Credits:
    4,407
    Ratings:
    +5,136 / 145 / -35
    I think you have to take people's post in context and not equate it to real life stuff. 99% of the fans have a grip on the movies and would never compare them to war, poverty, or any issue going on around the world. The passion is no different then loving a rock band, loving a sports team, loving a TV show, as it's an outlet for everyone.

    You have to understand TLJ took an iconic character in Luke Skywalker and turned him upside down for many fans, so Disney HAD to know that it would be divisive. I'm not arguing the fact of whether you liked it or I hated it, I'm just saying there had to be a conversation with Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy when they read the script, and was this the right way to portray Luke in the new movies? If they didn't atleast entertain that some fans would be p***ed off then that tells me they are out of touch. If they knew it was going to p**s off fans, and still decided that this was the best route to go, then atleast they were sticking to what they believed.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  9. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2017
    Posts:
    908
    Likes Received:
    1,418
    Trophy Points:
    5,592
    Credits:
    2,070
    Ratings:
    +2,218 / 66 / -27
    Definition of Tragedy: an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress, such as a serious accident, crime, or natural catastrophe.

    Event, as in movie... SW saga movies have been called events in the past.

    Suffering, I could say I've suffered by the making of TLJ. Not only because of the negative emotion I had leaving the theater, but also because of the response by some toxic portions of the fan base.

    Destruction, to some, it appears SW is being destroyed in some fashion.

    Distress, I think the fact that this page has gone over 255 pages speaks for itself.

    Serious accident, possibly if TLJ is interpreted as a blunder either by RJ or KK or Disney as a whole, one that can damage the brand.

    Crime, okay, in a legal sense absolutely not, but tragedy doesn't have to hit every single possible meaning of the definition.

    It doesn't fit all the criteria, but within the conversation, I think it mostly fits. Granted, somewhat exaggerated, but within the boundaries of reason. What's sad is that I take the time to write and take time to explain things and you turn around and clumsily pick a single statement out of context to try and argue that TLJ and the ST isn't on the same level of a hurricane, earthquake or tsunami when that isn't even what is being discussed. It's preposterous, you are deflecting a losing argument due to an ineptitude to intelligently and respectably represent your point of view, because I believe, deep down inside, you have no reasonable argument as to why you, and a small number of others, insist on coming into this thread to try and shame, demean and invalidate us because we dare to dislike something you happen to love.

    If you want a conversation or an honest answer, I'm always willing. Do yourself a favor though, come here with honest intentions to productive and intelligent conversation or don't come here at all. That's the same respect we've granted you lovers in your love thread.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  10. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Posts:
    767
    Likes Received:
    1,610
    Trophy Points:
    5,792
    Credits:
    2,211
    Ratings:
    +2,217 / 18 / -9
    I personally came here to challenge people's opinions and to have mine challenged in return.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2018
    Posts:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    33,588
    Trophy Points:
    155,667
    Credits:
    12,678
    Ratings:
    +35,651 / 40 / -21
    If that's how it came off I'm sorry. I was typing in a general sense, but this is a open forum I have every right to be this thread as you do.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Oct 22, 2018 ---
    Just say you dislike it that's all I'm implying. It's a language usage issue, as to what I'm trying to get across.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Posts:
    2,334
    Likes Received:
    17,844
    Trophy Points:
    146,317
    Credits:
    9,715
    Ratings:
    +20,007 / 17 / -5
    @Sparafucile, @Andrew Waples, you've both said your peace.

    Now is the time to either leave things be, or find something about the film to discuss.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  13. TrumanJ

    TrumanJ Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2018
    Posts:
    79
    Likes Received:
    2,086
    Trophy Points:
    6,832
    Credits:
    867
    Ratings:
    +2,131 / 6 / -0
    It’s complicated. It’s caused a major tremor in the force for some die hard fans such as myself. I thought the movie was well done. I just don’t agree with the direction Disney chose to take the story in. But the size of this thread shows how passionate we fans can be whether for good or bad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    610
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,166
    Ratings:
    +1,512 / 96 / -31
    Plenty of other threads to do that. You came in here to argue. You know it, I know it. Doesn't bother me, I enjoy a good argument myself. But for some reason the "hated it" crowd are perfectly happy discussing it amongst ourselves, whereas the "loved it" crowd were just too insecure to let the "hated it" thread be.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  15. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Lord Commander
    1030th Commander *** (Mod)

    Joined:
    May 9, 2016
    Posts:
    1,740
    Likes Received:
    31,692
    Trophy Points:
    155,717
    Credits:
    21,459
    Ratings:
    +35,772 / 3 / -1
    Discuss whatever you want about the movies. We will not be discussing fans or their intentions, or anything else relative to this statement.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  16. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2018
    Posts:
    610
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Trophy Points:
    4,842
    Credits:
    1,166
    Ratings:
    +1,512 / 96 / -31
    I think that's a good rule, it's just that I see an awful lot of "how long will you keep coming here?" and "why are you people discussing a movie if you hated it so much?" type of questions in here, so I apologize for thinking that discussing fans and their intentions was fair game.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  17. Darth_Nobunaga

    Darth_Nobunaga Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    Posts:
    250
    Likes Received:
    1,712
    Trophy Points:
    7,392
    Credits:
    976
    Ratings:
    +1,969 / 22 / -11
    A reoccurring topic brought up by visitors to this thread which, funnily enough, has nothing to do with the subject of critiquing the film or expressing disdain towards it at all.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Posts:
    2,334
    Likes Received:
    17,844
    Trophy Points:
    146,317
    Credits:
    9,715
    Ratings:
    +20,007 / 17 / -5
    Everyone is free to post wherever they like, however they like, so long as it is within the rules. The "lovers" who come here have every reason to, for the sake of a good discussion and fans discussing topic to topic, point to point. Yes, some come only to troll and rial things up, but they are taken care of, or will be notified shortly after an offense not to do so again.

    However, that does not leave it to you or anyone else to insult, demean, or belittle them, regardless of them following the rules. You follow the rules.
    If they have crossed a line, you have every opportunity and reason to contact a moderator, or hit the report button and it will be dealt with.

    Insults from either side are not tolerated here.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  19. Darth Wardawg

    Darth Wardawg Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Posts:
    725
    Likes Received:
    1,772
    Trophy Points:
    6,292
    Credits:
    2,455
    Ratings:
    +2,341 / 48 / -17
    The film is beautifully shot. No doubt. But, in my opinion, and it's just an opinion, the story group failed big time, and RJ knows very little about the universe he was playing in. He showed a ton of disregard for the world and what went before. And that comes back to the story group. They really should have tempered his worst instincts. Making Luke a shadow of himself was a bad bad bad idea. Why go there? To "subvert" expectations?

    I will always be a star wars fan (got several tattoos and I'm turning them into a sleeve), but TLJ is a failure as far as I'm concerned. I LOVED Rogue One. Absolutely loved it. I really enjoyed Solo and I don't care what anyone says, I really liked TFA. I'm definitely going to see IX, but TLJ is the worst film of them all since AOTC. As a matter of fact, it has made me rethink and rewatch the PT. If that was RJ's intent, then on that he succeeded.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  20. Xeven

    Xeven Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Posts:
    915
    Likes Received:
    850
    Trophy Points:
    4,692
    Credits:
    2,181
    Ratings:
    +1,731 / 162 / -86
    It seems like RJ felt he had to diminish Luke to pass on being the Hero to Rey. I’d have rather they left Luke out completely than feel how my wife and I felt leaving the theaters. I can deal with Snokes Demise and learn more about him in books. I think it was unsatisfying though.

    The film looked awesome, the story sucked badly all around lame. Run out of gas...really? Poe dereliction unforgivable.
     
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...

Share This Page