1. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPOILER What do you think Snoke's role was in this trilogy?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Lord Skywalker, Apr 28, 2019.

?

What was Snoke in all this?

  1. A pawn and vessel for Palpatine

    28.6%
  2. A random powerful dark side user who wanted to finish what the Sith, Palpatine and Vader started

    22.4%
  3. I'm not sure / Other

    49.0%
  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    4,945
    Likes Received:
    27,662
    Trophy Points:
    154,667
    Credits:
    20,813
    Ratings:
    +35,119 / 138 / -94
    How is it apples to oranges?
    You can't just say it doesn't count and it magically doesn't count.

    You are applying outside logic to the inside logic of the films. You are using your own biases, wants and desires to judge what is on screen instead of just evaluating what is actually being shown. It's fine saying you wanted more from Snoke but stop trying to act like it's sooo different from the Emperor. It isn't.

    Knowing who Snoke is and where he comes from changes nothing in the story other than give you a wookiepedia entry.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  2. Lazlo

    Lazlo Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2015
    Posts:
    680
    Likes Received:
    1,085
    Trophy Points:
    6,042
    Credits:
    2,324
    Ratings:
    +1,816 / 18 / -2
    I'd bet that we'll get a Snoke origins story in the interim between TROS and the next film, as well as a few more books on the rise of the FO, but they can't do that until the final installment of the saga is out. Right now it is looking like the rise of the FO was set up by Palpatine, and there was actually quite a bit of that alluded to in the aftermath series.

    After reading that I "knew" that the Emperor had put everything into motion, I just didn't expect to see him back on screen as anything other than a hologram. Disney has shown that they are very willing to engage in world and character building, but only after there is no possibility of anything being a spoiler.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  3. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,373
    Ratings:
    +6,616 / 297 / -173
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2019 ---
    It's different because these films don't exist in a vacuum. They are part of a saga.

    We all knew who the Emporer was in the OT. A dictator who controlled the galaxy with an Iron fist. We've known plenty of those in human history so it's an easy assumption to make, especially with all of the context provided by the writing on A New Hope. We knew Vader was his force powerful enforcer. The face of his evil Empire that everyone feared.

    When ROTJ ended, the Empire was defeated along with Palpatine and Vader. We all assumed there would be peace.

    Fast forward 30 years later and we are presented with Empire 2.0, Emporer 2.0, and a conflicted Kylo as Vader 2.0. As viewers of this saga, we are left scratching our heads as to how the victory at Endor led to some powerful force user mastermind named Snoke came to power and seduced Kylo and former a new Empire. NOT ONE HINT AT WHY OR HOW.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2015
    Posts:
    1,633
    Likes Received:
    23,789
    Trophy Points:
    149,617
    Credits:
    21,554
    Ratings:
    +26,000 / 114 / -38
    Leave fans of Darth Hungry-Mungry out of this. /s




    For those that don't know: https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/hungry-mungry/
     
  5. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    1,971
    Trophy Points:
    6,717
    Credits:
    2,578
    Ratings:
    +3,080 / 21 / -4
    The scene in TFA where Leia tells Han that it was Snokes fault on influencing Kylo was a prime opportunity to give a small background about Snoke. We're not asking for a whole monologue of Snoke's history, just some context on how he became in power within the 30 years. One or two more sentences about Snoke would of suffice. One thing I love about the PT is the world/story building which the ST really lacks and is one of the reasons why I put TFA below TLJ. TFA should of gave us a lot more exposition to the world of the ST but it didn't.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Logray Ewok Medicine Man

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2019
    Posts:
    92
    Likes Received:
    275
    Trophy Points:
    772
    Credits:
    573
    Ratings:
    +392 / 3 / -0
    Yes, I would have loved to have learned more about Snoke in either Episodes VII or VIII, but I also think that the absence of the explanation is a valuable component of the Star Wars experience. To be honest, at no point in watching a Star Wars film was I more confused than when I first watched Episode IV (the fact that I was six years old probably had something to do with it). Nevertheless, the original was filled with mysteries that weren't explained - who was this emperor that was mentioned? Was Darth Vader a human or machine? What were the spice mines of Kessel? (I could go on forever...)

    I think Episode VII intentionally withheld exposition for a number of reasons. One being to mimic the lack of exposition in Episode IV. I also think Abrams and the creative team were sensitive to some of the criticism leveled at the prequels that thought they had too much exposition (like the explanation of Midichlorians). Another reason was to leave the audience with the emotional experience of wanting more. I also think that Lucasfilm and Disney wanted to allow themselves some flexibility to pivot along the three movie arc without having to commit to any plot point that they didn't have to. Lastly, I think Episodes VII and VIII intentionally withheld exposition to make the ultimate emotional payoff in IX as epic as possible. Whether Abrams will pull that off, we'll have to see.

    Ultimately, I think the fact that audiences are now so hungry for insight into Snoke and the events of the years between VI and VII is a good thing. I'm hoping that come December we will all be very satisfied with with the overall experience of the sequel trilogy, but it is hard being patient (despite all I've learned from Masters Kenobi and Yoda).
     
    • Like Like x 10
  7. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,373
    Ratings:
    +6,616 / 297 / -173
    I'm sure Luke knows how and when Snoke "turned his heart". Rian could have addressed it too. Except Luke spent more time whining about the Jedi rather than being interested in the current threat to the freedom of the galaxy. That's another reason people aren't happy with TLJ.

    The bottom line is Snoke's appearance and death with little knowledge of who or what he is also effects Kylo. If we had a deeper understanding of his character, it would give us a deeper understanding of Kylo's character.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Great Post x 1
    • Wise x 1
    • Clouded x 1
    • Disagree x 1
  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Posts:
    4,945
    Likes Received:
    27,662
    Trophy Points:
    154,667
    Credits:
    20,813
    Ratings:
    +35,119 / 138 / -94
    They do exist in a vacuum. They are a slice of time at a given moment of a given time.
    If people managed to handle the Emperor in 1983, you can handle Snoke now.
    We know who Snoke is. A manipulative force user who is running the First Order.

    We know two things:
    1. The First Order isn't seen as a real threat by the new government. Otherwise a Resistance wouldn't be needed.
    2. They don't control the whole galaxy or else there wouldn't be a new Republic. They are presented as a start up.

    I actually agree they could have set the political stage a little bit better but not to explain Snoke. It's superfluous to explain him now. That's not this story.

    Key words here though, 30 years later. 30 years is a hell of a long time for a group like the First Order to form.
    There's a huge gap that needs filled, but the story being told is one between Kylo Ren and Rey. Much like the OT, the political drama is in the background.
    It's cool if it doesn't work for you but it's really not a flaw in the story, it's just not what you wanted.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Great Post Great Post x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Clouded Clouded x 1
  9. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,373
    Ratings:
    +6,616 / 297 / -173
    I get everything you're saying. But you are kind of making excuses and using the previous films to make your argument. The issue is it didn't have to be this way.

    Are you saying that if we knew more about how Snoke seduced Kylo, how the First Order formed, where Snoke came from, that the story would be WORSE? That it would take away from the story?

    In no way did we have to skip everything that happened over the last 30 years just to get to this "slice of time" where everything is basically back to Rogue One era Galactic Empire. You could quite literally watch the Star Wars Rebels animation stories pre-TFA and they would work just as well as they work for being pre-ANH (just switch out Kylo for Vader, Snoke for Palpatine, Tarkin for Hux, etc).

    This trilogy is practically the same story with new actors, except the Emporer was a mysterious shadow until the climax of the trilogy. Snoke just died mid-way through the 2nd film, which means he needed more exposition to make his death feel like it meant something.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  10. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Posts:
    1,005
    Likes Received:
    1,971
    Trophy Points:
    6,717
    Credits:
    2,578
    Ratings:
    +3,080 / 21 / -4
    Yeah he could of but it wasn't his job. It wasn't his job give us the context of the state of a galaxy. It was his job to explain why Luke was on the run and he gave us the reason. Whether or not you accept it, is a whole another discussion. I personally bought it, if you didn't than that's okay too. Its like having LOTR The Two Towers explain the history of the ring rather than telling us in the first movie Fellowship of the Ring. I also like how Luke acknowledged the faults of previous PT era of Jedi and that he couldn't live up to the hype of his name. People trusted the Jedi to bring the balance and stability to the galaxy (they were the protectors of peace btw) but Palps played them like a fiddle. If someone like Yoda who was powerful and wise allowed the Empire to form, what makes you think Luke would of prevented the First Order from rising? Luke complaining (which you call it) is really the only exposition we gotten out of the ST so far.
     
    #70 deadmanwalkin009, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
  11. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,377
    Likes Received:
    5,543
    Trophy Points:
    14,817
    Credits:
    6,476
    Ratings:
    +9,397 / 246 / -104
    Yeah I have agree on one level but disagree on another. You are right Kylo might just be a stooge or never realize his vision. But his flailing and tempertantrums trying to reach his goal are part of his danger. They are part of his threat. Trying to prove his father wrong he might cut his master in half and then now rule the galaxy with no idea what to do next. That doesn't change that he killed his master. Now their might be a Palpatine resurgence or some new threat but so far he was the villain who broke all our ROTJ happy endings and now reigns supreme in the galaxy.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  12. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Posts:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    2,483
    Trophy Points:
    7,817
    Credits:
    3,449
    Ratings:
    +3,412 / 31 / -16
    I’m personally more interested in how Kylo can be redeemed than in worrying how he got bad. Mind you, we might get one thing with the other, so we might be all happy in the end.

    And the threat to the galaxy is the dark side, as it always has been. The big challenge now is how to eradicate it.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. Sierra217

    Sierra217 Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2019
    Posts:
    58
    Likes Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    457
    Credits:
    275
    Ratings:
    +256 / 0 / -0
    I don't think he's going to be redeemed in the classical sense (as in Vader or some Legends characters). I mean, TLJ kinda went out of its way to show that Kylo wasn't interested in "redemption" at all and rejected the idea of Sith and Jedi (or dark and light from a certain point of view). I think he's going to become a sort of "anti-hero" throughout TROS. My guess is that he won't die in the end, but will go off on his own in either self-imposed exile or accept outright banishment from the heroes, after helping them ultimately defeat whatever/whoever the big bad really ends up being; or maybe he does die but that's how he goes out.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Cool Cool x 1
  14. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,332
    Likes Received:
    3,705
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,373
    Ratings:
    +6,616 / 297 / -173
    Disney owns Star Wars. There will be no eradicating the Dark Side. :D
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2017
    Posts:
    1,086
    Likes Received:
    2,483
    Trophy Points:
    7,817
    Credits:
    3,449
    Ratings:
    +3,412 / 31 / -16
    If making movies for gain was the only damage capitalist corporations made to the world...
    --- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2019 ---
    That seems also interesting. I wouldn’t mind that either.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  16. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Posts:
    3,509
    Likes Received:
    7,680
    Trophy Points:
    87,537
    Credits:
    18,054
    Ratings:
    +10,889 / 59 / -6
    A few thoughts on Snoke’s role.

    Snoke as a pawn of Palpatine- this could work easily. Palpatine in whatever form he was in after his “death” or plans he set in motion in the event of his death could easily gotten Snoke a powerful dark side user to carry out plans to basically rebuild the Empire. It’s logical and it fits what we have in canon

    Snoke as a being possessed by the dark side essence of Palpatine- this works too. Snoke becomes Palpatine in another form. For this to work, however, Palpatine would have had to let Kylo kill Snoke and then possessed someone new as I don’t see Palpatine being tricked so easily by Kylo

    Snoke as a Palpatine clone- this does not work at all. The physical attributes of Snoke don’t match up. The physical disfigurement can easily be explained but adding a foot or more in height can not.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  17. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Posts:
    2,388
    Likes Received:
    2,821
    Trophy Points:
    10,667
    Credits:
    6,025
    Ratings:
    +6,892 / 395 / -270
    • Funny Funny x 10
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  18. FotisKaragian

    FotisKaragian Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2015
    Posts:
    227
    Likes Received:
    409
    Trophy Points:
    2,767
    Credits:
    942
    Ratings:
    +634 / 22 / -7
    As much as this is possible and probable, it is hardly acceptable for a movie script. You can't say to the audience "you know what, we didn't have the time to develop this guy, so go grab 5 comic books, 3 novels and watch 2 animation series to know who this guy really is"....

    You will, I will, but most people won't...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Meister Yoda

    Meister Yoda Your Little Green Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2015
    Posts:
    905
    Likes Received:
    27,506
    Trophy Points:
    149,652
    Credits:
    24,896
    Ratings:
    +29,183 / 4 / -2
    You can't eradicate the dark side. Your challenge will be to accept that and learn to handle it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  20. Angelman

    Angelman Servant to the Whills & Slave to the Muses
    1030th Junior * (Mod)

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2014
    Posts:
    1,530
    Likes Received:
    18,635
    Trophy Points:
    148,717
    Credits:
    10,750
    Ratings:
    +20,311 / 62 / -19
    Similarly, most people doesn't need to know more as Snoke is, like the vast majority of all SW characters, there only to serve other arcs and requires no special backstory to side track the real events in the films. Most people need no backstory for Snoke; You might, I might, but most people don't.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Clouded Clouded x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
Loading...

Share This Page