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WHAT ONE ELEMENT WOULD YOU CHANGE OF THE ORIGINALS?

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by CTrent29, Dec 17, 2016.

  1. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I'm pretty much the opposite minded.
    I greatly dislike the trend of overwriting history.

    Folks worked their butts off to accomplish groundbreaking results and that work has been repeatedly erased in subsequent releases.

    The results of their work in visuals and audio won awards and now there's whole generations that never experienced their work.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  2. Trev

    Trev Rebel Official

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    This is probably an obvious response, but I’d undo some of the Special Edition changes or provide some more context to make them make sense. (For example, opting to use Hayden Christensen’s image for Anakin’s Force ghost while Obi-Wan and Yoda are still shown in their older state as spirits. To me, that did nothing but create more confusion than necessary regarding that concept, which also complicated how Star Wars has been able to progress that concept in subsequent media.) To be honest, the only one I really can think of off the top of my head that I would keep is replacing the original Palpatine with Ian McDiarmid in The Empire Strikes Back. Aside from those minor things, though, I wouldn’t change anything. I know the Original Trilogy is FAR from perfect, but I adore those films for what they are, flaws and all.
     
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  3. Lukestarbucker

    Lukestarbucker Rebel General

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    I, personally, wanted boba fett to live so we can get more boba fett in Star Wars. This opinion seems popular I guess. :) um, also that kissing scene between Luke and Lea. I would change these elements. Just my opinion. :)
     
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  4. Embo and His Pet Anooba

    Embo and His Pet Anooba Rebel Official

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  5. delph

    delph Clone Commander

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    Exactly, that is what I meant. I am not saying to add new features to the movie, just some extra scense to the duel between Obi Wan and Darth Vader. For example, in The Empire Stikes Back I appreciated the new scense added in Bespin planet. It is just to give the right importance to the right events. After all I liked the duel between Anakin and Obi Wan in episode 3.
     
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  6. Prequelfan93

    Prequelfan93 Clone

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    This is what my special edition would look like

    A New Hope



    The Empire Strikes Back (Although for this i would keep the changed dialogue from the 2004 version)



    Return Of The Jedi



    Also i would have changed the krayt dragon call in A New Hope back to either the original or the 2004 version because i have always hated the 2011 version and i also i would have deleted the extra rock in front of R2D2 and Han would shoot first i would do a lot more but these are just a few examples.

    Also a bonus.




     
  7. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Having to pick...I would have Tarkin killed off in ROTJ instead of ANH. Having him roam the bridge of the Superstar Destroyer wouldnt been cool/scary.
    Also, let Leia wield a lightsaber or use the force in a scene.
    Luke sneaking into the Jedi Temple on Coruscant to retrieve something.
     
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  8. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    Two things, based on my most recent rewatch of The Empire Strikes Back:
    1) I would shift the order of events regarding Han and Leia's arrival on Bespin and Vader beginning to menace them and Luke seeing a vision of them in pain so that

    2) I would completely excise Yoda's "No, there is another" line
     
  9. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I feel like the video cut off right at the juicy part. What happens next on Dallas man! Inquiring minds want to know!
    But seriously, this is interesting - what's the rest of the sentence and walk me through the thinking here.

    For the next one...warning.
    /rant-mode-on

    It's things like this line and reading Lucas say...

    "It sets up the fact that, in this series, Luke could be expendable at this point. We don't need Luke to tell this story. We could get somebody else to do it... 'He's not the important one - there is another.' It's a cheap trick but it works."
    -Lucas
    ...that made it possible to believe stories like, "When Lucas was a kid he made haunted houses, and as soon as most of the kids in the neighborhood had gone through, he would shut it down, change it around, and reopen it to get them to come back and pay again."

    Now, personally, that sounds like a long yarn of myth (I read that years ago in a magazine - I believe it was in the 90's) because A) it's just too perfect of a set up, and B) I've never once seen anything about it outside of that one magazine that allegedly received it (iirc, it was third hand - someone who had heard Lucas' Mom say...which is just bulls*** smelling to begin with).

    But the point is, it's real things like that line and Lucas' motive for it that make these other cheap-shot tales about him seem plausible.

    I think this one takes the cake. Runner up is his self-judged "cheap shot" at making Leia Luke's sister, but I think this one wins because of just how - I'm sorry...but - lazy of a solution this is to the problem of Luke having no threat.

    I'm not a writing aficionado, but it's a craft I'm picking away at improving on, so I take interest in these kinds of things artistically as part of my educational training...and this is just a giant, screaming, "DON'T DO THIS" sign.

    My education from considering how bad this went down, and how nearly worthless it ended up being is that it just wasn't needed.
    I don't think Lucas/Kasdan were right here (I haven't read ESB making of book - next on my list, so I'm not sure who actually decided it).

    This is wrong, regardless. Because when you look at ESB, do you really care about Luke's mortality?
    Is that the most important thrust of the story, or is it that Luke might get his friends killed, and that - more importantly - Luke has his mind blown by learning Vader is his Space Dad.

    At the very least, I think if I was writing a story that was templated off of ESB, I would lean into the Han/Luke friendship more. Han saves Luke, so Luke causing Han to get Carbonited has a poetic resonance to it. Cinch that up more tightly, and really focus that in as the primary thread for most of the story and let Vader's reveal be the upper cut after the gut punch of losing Han. I honestly don't even know if Luke cares that Han is carbonited. I can intuit that, but it's not screen-time pushed into in ESB.

    Luke misses out on that happening, which seems like such a bummer. Han runs out to find and save Luke from the cold, while Luke runs out and fails to save Han from it...and better, causes it to happen. Like, move the Vader Luke fight up a bit more. Have Luke jump in to save Han. Vader toss out a line about how that's preferable because he wanted Luke anyway. Leia yell about it being a trap as they're carted off. Han's still there, and it looks like Luke's going to save Han, but while Vader/Luke are battling, Vader plays with Luke - he spots that he cares about Han that much because Han slips and Luke catches him "Thanks buddy", banter...and so - Vader pushes Han into the carbonite to goat Luke into a rage and lose his control.

    Actually, even better - keep Leia around as well. Have them both on the edge and it ambiguous as to who's going to end up knocked in. Keep toying with it. Make the situation precarious - actually have Vader push Leia to screw with Luke, and Han jump in the way (tied up) to push Leia out of the way, and in turn he falls in and gets carbonited.

    The Luke is horrified twice over, and Han's love move still goes out with a nice bang.

    That to me would be far more interesting than "there is another" trying to convince me that Luke's mortality matters.

    But I think the more interesting story here would be the story of Luke endangering his friends by making reckless, and impulsive choices - Yoda even effectively plants this idea in mind. The idea is definitely floating around in ESB, but it's never really formed up and pushed to the center and made as a part of the narrative consequence like it just begs to be. Lucas only shoves Han in carbonite because he wanted to defer conversation about getting Ford back by kicking the can down the road since Ford - unlike Fisher and Hamill - had a film to film contract and was quite possibly not going to renew.

    So there's all of the elements in the film already, but they're just kind of flatly laying around like untied shoelaces.
    And that's always why ESB had never really ranked high up on my list. I mean...firstly, it's a downbeat film, so I'm not going to pick that as an interesting film to me anyway, but critically I never thought of ESB as a well written story. It has great punchy moments, but the story as a whole is pretty weak and frail.

    There's two big things this film contains: 1) Han/Leia kissing & Han carboniting & 2) Vader reveal.

    And that's it. So here's a question....what is this film about?
    What's the central narrative motive that creates the character tension among all of the characters as the story moves along?

    The Matrix is about Neo's faith in himself and his fears of causing Morpheus' death.
    Fight Club is about the protagonist's denial of self-loathing and dissatisfaction with his life which has been a lonely existence, and coming to terms with accepting his real self leads to a less polished life, but one that brings him more fulfillment and real friendships with people.

    ESB is about Luke's self doubt as he runs off to save his friends...ish.
    Because even though that's what it should be, I don't think it's concretely coalesced enough for it to be about that.
    It's certainly not about Luke facing the reality of his Father. That's a moment in the film, but that's not the narrative railroad that emotionally motivates it.

    And I think that it's all able to be fixed - conceptually - by removing that "there is another" line from the film entirely, and not trying to MASH Luke's mortality into a story that's not about Luke's mortality. And I think that's why that line sucks so much - it's only there to make us worry about Luke dying, but Luke dying was never really the point of interest in ESB. I would even argue that a lot of people totally did not get the message as intended from that line.

    I seriously doubt a lot of the audience heard, "There is another", and thought, "Oh No! Luke can die!"

    [​IMG]

    I think most of the power of that line ended up hitting audiences as, "There is another", ...."Wait...what? Another Jedi?! WHO!!?"

    So not only do I disagree with Lucas' reason for putting it in the film, I disagree with Lucas that it worked. No...I don't think it did Lucas. It was just a cheap trick that "worked" by distracting audiences from paying attention to the story while they whirled their mind around as to who the next Jedi could be.

    /rant-mode-off


    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #249 Jayson, Sep 23, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
  10. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Official

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    I almost shared my rationalizations for the changes in my previous post, but then decided against doing so, but I'll go ahead and share them now.

    Switching the order of story so that Luke doesn't see a vision of his friends being in pain until after they actually are in pain would, IMO, make the story flow better and be more consistent with Force visions as we saw/heard them described in the Prequel Trilogy.

    And my reasoning for getting rid of the line "No, there is another" is that said line is needlessly expository given the nature of the scene in which it occurs and is incongruent to the remainder of the Original be Trilogy.
     
  11. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    1- The Death Star 1 is destroyed at the end of EP VI.
    2- Tarkin doesnt die at the end of EP IV but is force choked by Vader in 5 or 6
    3- Turn off the lights of the Jedi Temple during the Coruscant celebration scene. Lights on implied the temple survived but wasnt use in the ST.
     
  12. Kraven Head

    Kraven Head Rebelscum

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    Watched a bit of ANH yesterday afternoon.
    In the OT Vader and R2D2 never crossed paths.

    Imagine/what if Vader enters the Tantive IV, recognizes R2, tells the droid he's Anakin and R2 decides to follow him out of loyalty.
    Rebellion ends right there fellas.
     
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  13. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Interesting. Yeah, no lights would have been better.
     
  14. EwokMaster

    EwokMaster Clone

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    I take great offense to that.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2020 ---
    Leia giving some sort of emotion after Alderaan was destroyed I think her reaction was very bland.
     
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  15. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    I would change Obi Wan's line about Uncle Owen not agreeing with Akakin's ideals and thinking he should have stayed on Tatooine. After the prequels that doesn't make any sense. I guess it could have just been Obi Wan making up an excuse for Owen not allowing Luke to have a lightsaber. Although now the line about Anakin wanting Luke to have it when he was old enough also doesn't make sense. I'm not sure what does or doesn't make sense anymore....
     
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  16. TK-1204

    TK-1204 Imperial Special Forces
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    I agree with this.

    However in lieu of this happening, I mostly chalk it up to it either being an off-screen conversation Anakin and Owen had at some point, probably during the events of Episode 2, and/or Obi-wan lying again.
     
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  17. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    GL had stated that the prequels were going to delve deeply into the history of what came before the original trilogy. He stated that the prequels were not going to be action-packed. I wish he had kept to this vision. Maybe it would have been too boring for the general audience.
     
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  18. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    This is the main reason for what let the helium out of my balloon with the Prequels.

    I don't hate them, but I found them very hard to be excited over when what the original films lead you understand was that Vader was once was a noble knight of good who grew into darkness for a lust of power to keep doing that good (which we got..ish) - and that he and Ben spent years together in the trenches in a very Arthurian way.

    The way Ben talks of things was always like listening to a grandfather speak of "The War". It conjured up images of old Samurai films and WW1 films of two men making their way through a nightmare that changed everything after having been in the elite class and enjoyed a good life before all went to crap.
    Sitting in the dirt, hunkered down, talking about their hopeful futures and trading wills to each other in case one dies, facing the horrors of an all consuming war where they struggle to keep their nobility in the face of their actions. One did. One didn't.

    It's not that the Prequels are bad, but just that the way it aesthetically translated was a massive shift from what the previous aesthetic translated.

    I'm still taken to that idea everytime I hear that part. It doesn't remind me of the PT.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  19. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    While it's not impossible, it just seems unlikely that Owen would express this to either Anakin or Obi Wan.

    If it was spoken to Anakin and Anakin later related it to Obi Wan, it implies a closer relationship between Anakin and Owen than what is shown onscreen. From what we see, they don't know each other and barely talk to each other. For Owen to tell Anakin, Jedi Knight, "Stay here on a moisture farm and don't get involved" seems highly unlikely and inappropriate. Then Anakin would have to tell Obi Wan that story at some point for Obi Wan to tell Luke the story.

    Or.... Owen could have said this directly to Obi Wan sometime after receiving Luke. "Anakin should have stayed here. He shouldn't have gotten involved". That also just seems bizarre considering that Anakin was an up and coming Jedi who hated Tatooine and had no connection to moisture farming or the Lars family, really.

    It's just a weird thing to say in light of the prequels, which makes me think it was just BS. The problem is that it was very specific and believable BS. It was like he had rehearsed the conversation in his head in case Luke asked. It was probably meant to be true at the time of the OT and the PT is what messed it up, almost certainly.
     
  20. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I think the original idea was for Anakin to be part of a larger family life abstract in the ilks of Kurosawa films where class issues and why people can't be happy with what they have and how things are are explored, and when it came to the prequels Lucas, ever the showman, decided it was more interesting if Anakin was a slave - something as of yet entirely not mentioned by anyone to Luke ever...

    In much the same way that Lucas just up and decided to off Ben since he wasn't doing enough, rather than rework him in because it was a more interesting ploy and trick for the show.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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