Will Rian Johnson's Career Ever Recover?

TLJ is overall a good movie and a good follow up to TFA. It's hatred is entirely context based and consists of roughly 3 staples:
- Concurrent political climate
- Long time fans expected different Luke Skywalker
- People getting attached to intense theorising after TFA's "mystery boxes".

None of this will be an issue for any potential new audiences: each movie is a couple of clicks, rather than years, away from each other, so there is no real room for theories or expectations. As for political agendas - there's barely any, in comparison to everything else that's coming out these days and kids definetely wouldn't notice any of it.

 

This is such a broad generalization of reasons that people did not like TLJ that I think it’s rather unfair. I think Rian is a really good and interesting director - I loved Looper and Knives Out. I really disliked TLJ - and not remotely for any of the 3 “staples” you mention. My dislike of the movie stems from a combination of what I thought was an uninteresting story that lacked any sense of “fun”, poor pacing (boy did TROS over correct on that!), inane and overly childish humor, surprisingly weak F/X at times and generally poor dialogue. Overall I thought it was boring - which I never believed was possible for a SW movie.

Quite obviously many people disagree with my opinion and love the movie or disagree and dislike it for multitudes of other reasons. To each their own.

There are more opinions of TLJ than there are people who actually saw the movie. Decades from now the same will be true.

 

No, that's not what I am talking about. People can dislike anything for any reason. What I am talking about is what (I believe) caused the TLJ hating, that's persistent to this day.

 

I know nothing of this “Rian” Johnson you guys speak of.

I only know RUIN Johnson, the manbaby who DESTROYED the Star Wars franchise with his ABOMINATION of a film that was filled with PLOT HOLES, CHARACTER ASSASSINATIONS, and SJWs!1!1! The man seriously grinds my gears. I’d go more in depth here, but I already have an eight hour video on Youtube that should do the trick.

 

I believe that @Jack_Forest has ID'd the most vocal groups online. For whatever reason (especially in the US) the there's a huge overlap with people who are super Trump supporters and hating TLJ. This can be seen seen on YouTube and Twitter. It's a very small group, but it's a very vocal one. It's a shame that their voice drowns out people like @Old Jedi who just didn't like the film.

To be fair, we've heard way too much about why people don't like the film for a film that the overwhelming majority of people liked, but that's the internet for you.

 

I think the “most vocal” on Twitter and YouTube is probably a fair way to characterize the dislike being referenced here. I don’t personally traffic on Twitter so can’t accurately speak to it, but like so many things today it seems to me the self selected universe of Twitter/YouTube seems to carry a disproportionate amount of influence over forming supposedly “consensus” or “popular” opinions.

I digress a little, but guessing the proportion of people that have actually even thought about Rian Johnson for more than 10 minutes after seeing TLJ, let alone spending time to post on a message board or post a video about their opinion on the movie good or bad probably represent well less than 1% of the people who actually saw the movie.

Some people love TLJ, some people hate it. The vast, vast majority of people who saw it don’t ever even think about it anymore. We are all chatting in our own tiny little echo chamber.

 

I am a "long time fan" and I loved the Luke Skywalker we got in TLJ.

But of course I "break the mold"

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 16, 2020 ---

And again, I break the mold. Trump supporter and LOVED TLJ and the ST.

 

I am a "long time fan" and I loved the Luke Skywalker we got in TLJ.

But of course I "break the mold"

Luke Skywalker is TLJ, for a large part resembled TESB Luke- dynamic with emotion, whiny (Luke's TLJ grumpiness), which indicates a more dynamic state of emotion and shows Luke trying to reason through things, despite the negative emotion, thoughtful. Can't say if Luke improvs in TLJ, but he does come up with good plans/reactions, which he shows quite a bit in TESB, and barely in ROTJ. It's when TLJ gives off fans service of ROTJ Luke that I cringe (brushing off his shoulder, a smug smile, winking?). Granted, the cockiness has context, so it's more like Luke's cockiness in ANH or TESB.

I DON'T LIKE LUKE's COCKINESS IN ROTJ, PERIOD. It comes out of nowhere, and is overdone, with a bit of a facile-Alec Guinness snark, which doesn't work because Luke is still young even IF he has matured and because Luke, given the context of the last film, would be as bold and less cocky in this film. ROTJ Luke, and I found a little more evidence of this recently when looking back at one of the earlier drafts- one of Luke's final lines in the film is actually a line from Obi-wan's ghost in the script. I really want Luke to be his own character in ROTJ, but he seems to be a weird cross between Obi-wan and Vader at times, with a contemplative, poor interpretation of Hamlet. Or, maybe not; I could be wrong about Hamlet, but Luke's so serious while being so cocky at the same time. What is the point of the black clothes besides the Vader connection, Hamlet connection, "absolving priest" symbolism, the white interior- "I was good all along" reveal for later in the film? I still have no idea what Kasdan, Lucas, and Marquand were taking Luke's character in ROTJ, other than to wrap up the hero's journey.

And again, I break the mold. Trump supporter and LOVED TLJ and the ST.

Supported Trump too. Honestly, if ANYTHING, being hardcore faithful to ANH and TESB is what DREW ME into liking TLJ. Actually, I'd argue that most fans are being liberal who dislike the ST BECAUSE they accept MAJOR retcons and inconsistencies from ROTJ and technically the prequels. Now, it's inevitable that Star Wars has just gone on with all of these retcons in place (i.e. Leia is Luke's sister, the emperor is an old cackling force dude with poor persuasions skills, aside from the prequels, etc.), but other ones- Luke's characterization in ROTJ being the pinnacle of Luke's character or Vader's sacrifice being noble (admirable but besides the point of Vader's villainy, since it is a transformation of a villain into a victim) are emphasized as much as possible by fans of the OT, who are, as far as I know, mostly fans of ROTJ, who accept the canon of ROTJ with its retcons and inconsistencies over ANH and TESB's individual canon structures, which are far more consistent with storytelling, despite a few silly points.

 

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to me a better question is, who saw his prior catalog and thought he was the guy to take the job, nothing he did seems to point to being up for the job. That said I am sure he will get work in future.

 

I mean, they saw a guy who could make well-crafted and thought out indie movies, as well as sci-fi ones, and said "let's give him a chance and the easiest part (in theory)." He didn't have to revive the franchise, create new characters, or stick the landing. He just had to move the story along. That was a great thing for an up-and-coming director.
And frankly, he's far from the first director to be handed a big budget film after doing some indie films. The Russo Brothers, Justin Lin (to a degree), James Gun, Kevin Trevorrow...those are just the examples off the top of my head. That's how things seem to be progressing now, so it's not that surprising.
There are a couple of videos I've seen on why this is the case. I've heard it called the Christopher Nolan Effect, since he's more or less the face of it now. And I've heard that this trend is because everyone is trying to find "the next Nolan" and sign them early. That was Lucasfilm's MO right up until Fantastic Four went downhill and Solo had directorial issues.

John Campea has an interesting breakdown about this.

 

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Perhaps I do not like his vision of star wars and the character arcs (or lack thereof) it is very weak in my opinion, I get taking a shot with a new guy, it can be great but can go horribly wrong

 

And who were Irvin Kershner and Richard Marquand before SW?

 

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do not know who they are now

 

You're absolutely right, it's a gamble. But so is movie making in general. We saw with JJ on TROS, sometimes taking a bet with the "old guy" doesn't always work out either...

Again, look at James Gunn and Christopher Nolan. Before GotG, my parents (and many other non-superhero buffs) scoffed at the idea of a talking racoon in space as a blockbuster. Now they adore the franchise. And Nolan almost singlehandedly revitalized the public's interest in Batman after the last movie. (Which, in retrospect, has been treated a lot like the PT via Prequel Memes.)

Working with Indie directors is probably really refreshing in a lot of ways as well: they know how to milk a budget, they have a vision and a cinematic style that you can gel with (ideally), and they're probably a heck of a lot cheaper (and not nearly as busy) as mainstream directors! It's like hiring a rookie. You know they have the potential to grow into the role, they just need the chance.

Your vision of RJ's Star Wars is benefited from hindsight and retrospect. It's certainly valid, and I definitely don't agree with many of RJ's choices either, but it's not a thing we can see until after it happens. To say "I don't like your view of something now that I see it" isn't a good or fiscally responsible movie-making strategy.

 

We'll set aside how preposterous this thread topic is for a moment (mods may even want to close it). Rian Johnson was fresh off a successful sci-fi film. 2 out of 3 of his films were hits and he directed some of the best episodes of Breaking Bad.

My question is, who do fans think are up for these gigs? Guys like Nolan/Fincher aren't gonna direct a Star Wars film unless they have total control and that's just not gonna happen at Disney. These films aren't high art cinema. At the end of the day they're just simple stories and people still lose their minds online if they don't get their way.

With that in mind it makes perfect sense why someone like Rian Johnson was picked. He made a movie most people liked and people are still complaining about years later. His next movie was also a huge hit so the idea that his career needs to recover is another example of internet discourse detached from reality.

 

Pretty funny how this thread was bumped today considering this news just broke:

 

As big as Star Wars is, and as much as TLJ pissed off a lot of fans, it is just one movie and shouldn't be used as a measure of Rian Johnson's career success or more importantly his talent as a director.

I'm not his biggest fan to put it politely, but RJ is a talented guy. I just think he's better off working from a script written by someone else, and needs some serious advice on directing action scenes.

I thought Knives Out sucked, but people seem to like it somewhat...

 

Campea's video is interesting, but from the answer to the question at Fiege.

Indie film can be broken into two camps. There's the director who does indies' because that's where they cut their teeth and start their career. He or she has bigger ambitions and wants to make major studio fare, but won't be given the keys to the car until they show they can put out a good film under budget. So they start out doing indies. And then there's the indie director who wants to make off the wall content about dancing hippos while puffing on a spliff all day.

I don't know the details why Kathleen Kennedy hired Rian, but from what I have read, I get the impression that she wanted see a SW film that had depth, maturity and a good story and that was not just simplistic fare aimed at 15 year old boys.

 

This sounds awesome. Still comical to me that people think he's not a good writer. He wrote all his films.