For those who have seen the movie, do you like it or hate it?

I thought it called out his character's humorlessness in a great way. I loved it. I dunno. I like to laugh. It set up Poe's bravado, humor and fearlessness too.

I loved the idea of the Rebels taunting them rather than always just being totally freaked out.


I dunno. His chance at coup passed when he didn't shoot Kylo. But maybe he'll try again.

 

Maybe in a later scene. But it was just whiplash for me.

Oh general hugs...Paige Tico sad death bomber scene!

 

Don't know how any true Star Wars fan can believe that this was a good Star Wars movie. Although there were a few things I liked, overall this was absolute trash. Even some of the good things should have been done differently as it could have been better. Here's a partial list of what I'm talking about:
1. Po's attack sequence could have been so much better. It didn't need to be a solo mission to take out all of the canons. It should have been an entire squadron and not just a Po solo mission. That would have been more exciting. And further, a squadron of tie fighters should have attacked.
2. His momma joke. One or two times of "still holding" would have been OK, but this just kept going. The better option would have been to not include it at all and keep this scene on the slightly serious side.
3. Loved how they showed BB8 submerging and using his design as a means of troubleshooting, but when he found the shorting circuit this was turned into another joke. It's almost like this movie should have had a laugh track. As he was probing all of the shorts I couldn't help think of the little Dutch Boy putting his finger in the dam, which was what I believe they were going for, but overall it wasn't needed and didn't add anything to the scene. Again, liked seeing BB8 used to fix the X-Wing, but it shouldn't have been a joke.
4. So why didn't the bombs float off into space when they were released. Are you telling me the Dreadnought had gravity outside, in space? And if the doors were opened and there was no force-field (hence why the bombs were able to be out) then why was Rose's sister not sucked out into space? What would have been better is if the "bombs" were droids that not only propelled down to the Dreadnought, but burrowed in or specifically attacked/drilled specific spots before exploding.
5. Why did Kilo Ren even attack in his Tie Fighter-ish ship? There's no reason for him to be attacking himself, unless it was a test by Snoke, and if that was the case it should have been shown.
6. Leia being blown out into space, but being alive? Maybe if they actually showed us a force bubble around her it would have made sense, but they handled this very poorly. She actually should have been the one to perish in this movie, but her death should have had meaning. For example, maybe she should have been the one to pilot the ship into the First Order Fleet at the end. The whole flying Leia was stupid. I would have preferred a force using Leia, but what was shown in TFA was not that, and now all of a sudden she's so powerful in the force that she survives this?
7. Admiral who? A love Laura Dern normally, but this role was so bad. This was a totally unnecessary character. And of course they have to show her as a tough leader that won't share the plan with the troublemaker Po? In fact, her not sharing this info is what led to mutiny and the whole stupid mission on the casino planet.
8. The whole SJW aspect of this movie. It's like the whole female Ghostbusters piece of crap they came out with and the Ocean8 crap that is coming out. This whole movie seemed to be about showing the while males as evil, while showing the females as the only good leaders. Princess Leia slapping Po, Laura Dern's character (still don't know who she is) not sharing the plan with Po. Her purple hair wasn't a coincidence. Some have actually stated in their reviews that there were hints of Princess Leia and Laura Dern's character being lesbian lovers (not that there's anything wrong with that...). It's just so unnecessary. And then the whole political statement at the casino planet. Yes, slavery is bad. Yes, animal cruelty is bad. Everyone gets that, but it's not needed in Star Wars. Star Wars should not be turned into a political statement!
9. The conversation with Maz. So you're telling me the First Order is not jamming communications? Really? As much as I liked Maz's character in TFA, and wouldn't mind seeing her again, this wasn't needed and didn't make sense. Of course the First Order would be jamming them!
10. Luke throwing the light saber away. How bad is that? I get what the "writer/director" is trying to say, the statement being made, but it's stupid. There should have been more meaning. Luke should have been asking questions, or better yet, he should have known Rey and asked her questions to show that. Imagine instead he looks at the light saber and then at Rey and says, "Keera... is that you? How did you find me?". That would have led to us learning that she was one of the padawans being trained under Luke at the academy. That would have made so much more sense than what they've given us.
11. The alien milking. This was beyond cringe worthy and anyone who actually liked this has to explain to me why. This was so bad and it was at this moment I realized that Star Wars has jumped the shark!
12. Luke has cut himself off from the force? Why exactly? He went looking for the first Jedi Temple, not to get lost. There was a reason he left the map for them, but it seems this entire story line was discarded.
13. Rian Johnson thinks he's better at writing Star Wars that George or JJ. He effectively took almost everything that JJ set up and threw it away. There is a reason why one of the main, underlying messages of the film was "let the past stay in the past". It was because he's effectively giving the middle finger to all Star Wars fans who grew up watching these movies.
14. None of the important questions that were set up mattered, which is beyond stupid. At the end of TFA we were left wondering/speculating about who Rey is, who her parents are, how amazing Luke training her will be, and who Snoke is. This is what Star Wars is supposed to be about. Setting up important questions and showing us the answers in the next movie. Instead we were given:
15. Rey is nobody?????
16. Rey's parents were drunk, junkers that sold her?????
17. Snoke killed off with absolutely no background or build up, just, zap, you're dead.
18. Almost no training sequence, which would have been/should have been the highlight of this film. In fact, Rey should hjave stayed with Luke on the island training almost the entire movie, until the end, and Luke should have left with them.
19. The caretakers on the island. Why have them if all you're going to use them for is a little comedy relief? Ha, ha, Rey sliced the rock that almost killed one of the caretaker aliens, ha ha... Argh!!!
20. The connection between Rey and Kilo Ren. Sure, I get it, "it was a trap" (actually, writing that hurts... it's too soon!), but it wasn't done very well, and the "will you put a shirt on" was just more of the horrendous comedy.
21. I could write a whole thread on why the casino mission was beyond stupid, but let me just say, it was not needed. It served no purpose and was useless. Could have devoted that time to more Luke/Rey training and made the movie 10 times better!
22. The forced Rose love thing. It's like they went out of there way to make the interracial thing happen, and it wasn't needed. In fact, Rose's entire character wasn't needed and really didn't help the film.
23. Spaceship fuel??????? Never, ever, has that been an issue before. And the whole premise of the movie is that the big ship can't catch up to the smaller ship, so we'll keep going until we run out of fuel, but actually I have a plan to trick them? So... stupid!!!!!
24. And you're telling me that Hux couldn't have sent a couple of the other ships at warp speed ahead to cut off their escape? Dur!!!
25. Why did Leia shoot Po after she used the force to blow the door in? That seemed unnecessary! It could have been "Admiral?".. "Po, put your weapon down". That's it, now they talk and work things out.
26. Luke shows up and gives Leia these dice things that supposedly belonged to Han, but we've never seen them before? And we're supposed to believe they've been on the Falcon all this time, but the junk alien guy didn't take them when he had the Falcon all that time? And then worse, they're just a force illusion that Leia threw away??? If she threw it away because she knew it was a force hologram, then why would Luke even give it to her?
27. An the whole force hologram thing makes no sense. We've never seen that before, so now it's a thing, just like Leia's space flying?
28. And then Luke's not even there? Really??? STUPID!!!!! Here's what they should have done... Luke walks out to confront them and ignited his GREEN light saber. They fire on him, but he manages to use the saber to block the energy blasts, sending some back at the walkers. When they stop he then reaches into the force and cause the two walkers at the sides to fall over towards the others, creating a domino effect. (funny, and effective, and showing just how powerful Luke is). IMO, Kylo should not have fought Luke in this one, and instead the end of this one has Luke with the resistance, having helped to defeat their attack and send the First Order on the run.
29. They kill off Admiral Ackbar like it's nothing. He should have been in charge after Leia was hurt, and maybe he should have sacrificed himself.
30. No Knights of Ren??? Are you kidding me??? That is what the battle should have been. Luke and Rey versus the Knights of Ren!!!!!
31. The hokey pokey kid at the end with the broom. This is just setting up Rian Johnson's trilogy, that, based on this movie is going to be terrible!
32. No one actually said "I have a bad feeling about this!"!!!!! This is a Star Wars staple. And if the answer is that BB8 "said it" at the beginning of the movie, then they should have acknowledged it. Leia should have said "I agree with the droid, I have a bad feeling about this too!"... or something like that!
33. They dedicate the movie to Leia, but not to Kenny Baker?

I can keep going, and can probably add like 32 just on the whole casino planet story line. This movie was truly terrible. Search your feelings, you know this to be true!

 

Let the past go...

Also, they have sound in space and you're going to complain about gravity? C'mon. It's a Star Wars movie! Physics do not matter. Example: "laser swords"

 

Watching TLJ, I was struck by the impression that this felt like a movie made in direct response to some of the criticism levied at TFA. Namely that the latter felt too much like a retread of old ground, and a rehash of ANH specifically. TLJ certainly felt like a new, fresh Star Wars story, and this was largely put to good use. TLJ is a good Star Wars movie, but not without its flaws.

I'll start with what I didn't like. Firstly, as I've said in another discussion thread, the one character beat for Luke Skywalker that I just didn't agree with at all was that - even for a moment - he would contemplate murdering a sleeping child. I just don't think that's in the DNA of the Luke Skywalker we know. Secondly, one of the great successes of TFA was the launching of new characters you could get invested in: Rey, Finn, Po, Kylo Ren, and so on and so forth. And while Rian Johnson got great performances from his actors (indeed, one of the best things about this movie is the performances), one area where Johnson fell completely flat was in creating any compelling new characters. Vice Admiral Holdo and DJ are both one-note, forgettable characters who really serve no other purpose than to act as living plot devices. Rose was marginally better, but again, nowhere near as well done as any of the characters from TFA. Lastly, there is a tremendous sense of melancholy within me now about the Star Wars Universe. Han and Luke are dead. Princess Leia can/will never again be able to appear in another Star Wars movie. The Big Three, who were the bedrock of my childhood, adolescence, and even adulthood, are now gone. This is one of my gripes with the Disney Movie Machine - with the urgent need for studios to have sprawling, cinematic universes that can pump out movies several times a year, gone are the days where a heroic story can have a beginning, middle and end. Gone is the story of the Skywalker Saga, not-so-neatly shuffled aside to make way for new characters and stories, and when those actors' contracts run out or they get too old to play the characters, they will be shuffled aside for still more new characters and stories, and so on, and so forth. The idea of our heroes ever truly achieving a happy ending is kind of gone - and that's sad. Hence the melancholy.

Additionally - there are some major clashes here with what came in TFA. JJ Abrams set up some tantalizing mysteries in that movie, and it feels as though Rian Johnson decided "the heck with that" for the majority of them. Rey's parents? Not important. Who or what is Snoke? Not important. The best sequels (Empire, Aliens, T2) expand upon what came before without completely abandoning key parts of it. I feel like in his effort to make TLJ so new and interesting (again, in response to the criticism TFA received) that he just decided to forsake some very interesting throughlines that JJ Abrams left dangling for him.

BUT...that is where my criticism ends. This was a very, very fun Star Wars movie. My favorite scene by a long shot was Yoda's return, which was completely unexpected for me but wholly welcome. I loved that 1) they used the puppet, and 2) Yoda was more like we had seen him in Empire and Jedi than he was in the Prequels. Yoda was so compelling in the OT because he was this funny, senile creature who was very easy to judge by his actions and appearance. That's what made his massive displays of power (lifting the X-Wing from the swamp, for example) so shocking. The Prequels relegated him to the role of a super serious philosopher with hitherto unexpected combat skills. Largely gone was the mischievous twinkle in his eye that defined the character in Empire and Jedi. So I was very happy to see that return in force here. The pageturners line specifically had me in stitches.

Mark Hamill delivered possibly the performance of his career here. I know that the decisions with Luke's characters are controversial, and your like or dislike of this movie may come down to where you liked or disliked those decisions, but he really came through in the clutch with a fantastic performance in the role. Buried underneath all of his shame and cynicism was still the brash young farm boy from ANH, and even the confident Jedi Knight from ROTJ. His climactic confrontation with Kylo Ren was all kinds of awesome, too - it desperately left me wanting more of Mark Hamill. We finally got the display of Jedi prowess from the galaxy's most legendary Jedi Master that we had all been waiting for, and now he's gone! Damnit! But...on that note...

...let's talk about the Force in this movie. Another controversial point. Personally, I loved the expansions on what those capable of wielding the Force are capable of doing. It's somewhat gratifying to finally know 4 decades after Sir Alec Guiness promised "if you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" that he meant more than just showing up as Ghost Dad to give advice. Yoda can whap Luke in the face with his stick! He can summon a bloody lightning bolt to incinerate a tree! So even though Luke has ascended into the Force, he may still have a role to play in Episode IX, which is something of a comfort. I also found the Force projection ability that Kylo Ren, Rey and Luke all exhibit to be a natural extension of the scenes from Empire Strikes Back were Luke communicates first with Leia, and then with Vader. It raises the interesting question of whether or not those characters could see each other in those moments, or whether they only heard one another. I also greatly enjoyed Leia's display of power. I know the "Leia Poppins" jokes have been made aplenty, but it makes perfect sense that the twin sibling of the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy would have prodigious powers of her own. Cold vacuum of space? Not good enough to take down Leia.

I also really enjoyed the humour in this movie. Luke and Yoda were especially funny, although Leia's shot to 3PO to "wipe that nervous expression off your face" may have been my favorite moment, were it not for the moment that Kylo Ren murdered Snoke. I don't know if I can really explain why I found that moment so hilarious. Probably because it was so unexpected. This is one moment where Rian Johnson really succeeded in subverting my expectations. With all the mystique around Snoke, I was genuinely shocked by Kylo Ren's power move in this one, and at the same time, so relieved. Too often in Star Wars have we seen the evil master basically treat their apprentice like dirt. The Emperor did it with Vader, and we saw it again with Snoke. Yet Vader and Ren seemed so mindlessly devoted to their masters, it didn't seem to matter how poorly they were treated. That mindless devotion was difficult to comprehend. Kylo Ren was basically being called to heel, and he had to be hearing Han Solo's words echoing in his head - "when he gets what he wants from you, he'll crush you". So it was nice to finally see one of these terribly treated apprentices say "aw, the hell with you" and cut the bloody fool in half. The fact that Snoke was in the middle of boasting about how smart and all knowing he was added to the hilarity of the moment. I was struck by a vision of the Emperor telling Luke while the rebel fleet was being attacked in ROTJ "you, like your father, are now...mine" and grinning at him, and thinking of "what if, at that moment, Vader just casually ignited his lightsaber and cut the Emperor's head off?" That would have struck me as hilarious, too.

The action beats in this movie were awesome. I especially loved the Falcon in flight during the Battle of Crait, and both of the lightsaber showdowns. It was pretty awesome seeing Rey and Kylo Ren momentarily team up, and Daisy Ridley did a fantastic job of showcasing her utter devastation at the fact that she had misjudged Kylo Ren's intentions. Sure, he had murdered Snoke, but it was out of a self-serving gain to put himself in charge rather than converting to the light. It was unexpected, but also awesome - gone is the re-tread of the Darth Vader story arc. Kylo Ren doesn't posses the redeeming spark in his soul that Vader had (love for his family). He isn't just bad, he WANTS to be bad. He actively loathes that he feels any call to the light within him. And Adam Driver does a splendid job selling this in the role. I have to admit that I was really dubious when I heard he had been cast as a villain in TFA, but I am happily eating my words. He's delivered a layered, multi-faceted performance in a role that requires a ridiculously challenging amount of care to be handled and portrayed in a way that won't seem clichéd or over the top.

John Boyega and Oscar Isaac were both also insanely charming in their roles once more. It's too bad that they were both largely sidelined in this movie, but at least they got to play big parts in the climax. I would have liked to see Finn's grudge match with Phasma carry over for one more movie (RIP Chromedome), but that fight and their escape from the Star Destroyer with the help of BB-8 somewhat made up for the extremely lame Benicio Del Toro role. And Po showed some growth by the end of the movie, although it is somewhat inexplicable that Holdo decided to keep her notoriously hotheaded hotshot pilot in the dark about her grand plan. Although, that did set up one of my favorite scenes of the movie - Leia shooting an utterly bemused Po.

At the end of the day, this movie was funny, action packed, thoughtful, well acted, and well crafted. There are a few issues - largely story related - that I didn't particularly like, but rare is the movie that is perfect. I would rank my Star Wars movies now as such;

1.) ANH
2.) ESB
3.) TFA
4.) ROTJ
5.) TLJ
6.) RO

(a chasm several galaxies wide)

7.) TPM
8.) ROTS
9.) AOTC

I actually hold ROTJ in fairly high esteem - it is in my top 10 movies of all time, so slotting in TLJ behind it is no insult in my books. I would also rate the movie a solid 8/10.

 

Din't read NONE of the Above.
Don't Care (My Sincere Apologies to Them That Love/Like The Story) ...

THIS Is a Story told to and Shared with me (Us) ...
It IS What and HOW It IS.



...and I LOVE IT !


... period.

 

Rian, is that you?

 

So you loved the movie? Was a little unsure.

 

Been thinking more and more as to why I hated this film so much and I think I get it now...

See, if we had never seen Star Wars before and this was the first movie we had been shown in this universe, then this would have been a decent movie. Not amazing, but still, decent.

The problem, is that that is not the way things are. We have been shown Star Wars and many of us are true fans who stood in line for hours back in the 80's to see Empire for the 15th time. Why did we do that? Sure, visually Star Wars was amazing, and the story was amazing, but why?

See, Star Wars has always been about discovery. It's always been about the mystery of the story-lines and finding the answers. Think about episodes 4 through 6 and the questions we were given...

- Who will end up with Leia, Luke or Han (I know, in hindsight that's kind of gross, but anyway...)
- Is Darth Vader really Luke's father? If so, how did Luke end up on Tatooine?
- What will Luke learn from this Jedi Master he's going to?
- Who is the other that Ben and Yoda were talking about?
- Will Luke be turned to the dark side?
- How will Han be saved?

Also, if you think about it, most of these epic questions/mysteries come in the middle movie, and that's what we expected from TLJ.

JJ set up some interesting questions/mysteries that we wanted answered. Who is Rey, who were her parents, what actually happened to Luke's Academy, how amazing will Luke training Rey be, how did C3P0 get the red arm, who are the Knights of Ren, how powerful is Snoke, who is Snoke, etc.

In Star Wars, in the middle movie, we're supposed to get some of the questions answered while having more questions raised, which need to be answered in the third movie. That, is the story level basis of Star Wars and is what works.

And Rion Johnson took all of the interesting things that JJ set up and threw them away. If anything, JJ should be pissed about this movie!

- Rey is nobody.
- Rey's parents were no one.
- Luke's Academy was burned down, but we don't get to really see it happen.
- Luke's not going to really train Rey (which should have been the best parts of this movie).
- Where did the red arm go?
- The Knights of who?
- Snoke's story doesn't matter since he's dead.

I've heard some analysis saying that the reason real fans (yes, REAL fans) are upset is because all of our speculating proved to be wrong. Sorry, but that's not it. We're upset because the questions that we were speculating about are the ones that make Star Wars so amazing, and Johnson made those questions meaningless, and in doing so has made Star Wars meaningless!

Think about it... What questions are we left with?

- What will happen to the resistance now? Let me guess, they will regroup and battle with the First Order in the future. Kind of obvious.
- Will Kylo turn Rey to the dark side? Think this was kind of answered and the answer is no.
- Will Rey turn Kylo to the light? Think this was kind of answered and the answer is no.
- ummm......... Oh, will Rose and Finn fall in love and live happily ever after? Who cares?????

Now that I think about it, there are no questions left at the end of this piece of crap movie. This feels more like the third movie than the middle, which is a problem.

Just can't see where they can go from here that will make this story better, and that is an absolute shame! Rion Johnson has ruined Star Wars.

This leaves me asking a question I never thought I would ask regarding Star Wars...

Are we ready for a reboot?

In the immortal words of C3P0... We're doomed!

 

I think you maybe missed the theme of the movie...

Let the past die. Embrace that and you'll be fine.

Also, JJ can do whatever he likes with the next movie... there's enough left opened ended that it can go almost anywhere. That's not a bad thing.

Star Wars has rarely explained anything... and when it did ( ahem... midichlorians) it just felt wrong. These are different characters taking different paths. Embrace it. Or not.

 

While I do agree with some of the things in your post like flying Leia and the unneeded humor, I don't know how you can say thattrue star wars fans should not like this movie. Yesit is different, three are problems with it(Finn Rose goose chase) but this was a great star wars movie. You have to realize that with a different director, three will be different approaches to a movie. The Last Jedi had plenty of call backs to the original trilogy, but added a fresh new take. Your problem with Luke is relatable, but this movie did a great job of using Luke's brokenness to set the tone for the rest of the characters. The part where he projects his force hologram across the universe was very symbolic and I thought it was a great way to show Luke lettng go of the past (one of the themes for the movie) and reconnecting with both Leia and Kylo, as well as ending the movie with a sense of hopefulness. The part where he becomes pine with the force was incredibly well shot, and was a very emotional scene.
Moving on to your rant on the feminist parts of the movie...WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? I can't see how something as small as having a bunch of female leaders can actually register a complaint about the movie. If it bothers you that much, go watch basically every other movie. There will be plenty of male dominance for you to enjoy.

 

People expect sequels to have continuing sequential story lines. Rian should have made a spin off not a sequel. In fact, he did.

 

I think you meant to reply to Darth Jim. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

 

Yep sorry about that. My phone put them really close together, so it looked like the reply button was for his post

 

That is a good point although as far as I can remember the breach was in the front of the ship facing forwards so she would be drifting further ahead of the ship.

Also being a clearly adept force user surely she could of sensed other bridge personnel still alive and saved them too. It is thought humans can survive a couple minutes in vacuum and definitely at least 45 seconds from experience, not mine personally unfortunately.

 

Well said.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2017 ---

You nailed it on so many points!

Wow! Reboot... You're right. This movie makes that something to consider. Is that Disney's plan? Will RJ's trilogy be a reboot & the Skywalker storyline declared "Legacy Star Wars" and retired/removed from the Star Wars universe?

 

Hated it!

 

Why would real fans want to "let the past die" when it is the past that made us fans? The past is the heart of Star Wars. The past is the foundation that has and would continue to work for Star Wars. Worse yet, part of this "past" that you, and undoubtedly Rian "you ruined Star Wars" Johnson want to let die was from this trilogy and was from just 2 years ago. The foundation of this trilogy was (not is) The Force Awakens.

Actually, what a great metaphor...

The foundation of Star Wars is what was set us in the first 6 movies. The Force, the Jedi, the Light and the Dark, etc.

The pillars built on that foundation was what JJ set up in Force Awakens. Yes, some of those pillars looked very similar to the pillars setup in New Hope, but still, the pillars of this trilogy included questions like who is Snoke?, how powerful is he?, who and what are the Knights of Ren, what will Rey's training look like?, who are Rey's parents and how are they connected to the foundation of Star Wars?, how powerful is Luke?, how powerful will Rey become?, etc.

The metaphorical roof built on these pillars is the answers to all of these questions, as well as the story and how good ultimately defeats, albeit temporarily, evil.

The problem is that Rian Johnson, in his arrogance of believing he can recreate the foundation of Star Wars and make it better, effectively fractured the foundation and pretty much destroyed the pillars of this trilogy.

And the easy question is how well will the roof (the story) of this trilogy be when the pillars are crumbling and the foundation is cracked?

Easy answer is Rian Johnson should be fired from Star Wars ASAP (or at least in a month or two after the movie is effectively dead) and JJ should do interviews discussing how he will fix this.

Problem is, how can you fix this? Guess you could recon this movie (saying it was in a different universe, or having Luke wake up from a nightmare), but that would be Disney (and Kathleen Kennedy) admitting that they made a mistake signing off on Rian Johnson's "vision". The likelihood of them doing that is about zero.

Only other way out is for JJ to write his butt off and somehow fix these mistakes. Guess he could do this:

1. Kylo was lying to Rey about her parents.
2. Snoke is so powerful that he can "put himself back together"?
3. Luke can be brought back as a Force Ghost in order to properly train Rey.
4. Fasma's armor protected her?
5. The Knights of Ren can be used properly.
6. We can see Rey search for a Kyber Crystal (maybe even make it a special one - like a new color) in order to fix Luke's Lightsaber, or better yet, create her own.
7. Not have all of the stupid comedy in Episode IX
8. Get away from the Finn/Rose love storyline (actually, can Rose just be dead or comatose for the rest of the story?).
9. Never use "fuel" as a plot point again.
10. Move away from the SJW underlying theme and any semblance to real life, current day politics.

Actually, what I would prefer is a true retcon maneuver, making the majority of TLJ null and void. Something like this:

Rey wakes up, being cradled in Luke's arms. She and Luke are still on Ahch-to and we realize that the majority of what we saw in TLJ was not real and part of her experience in the cave when she faced the Dark Side. Luke can explain that the Dark side of the Force is strong in that place and will try to tempt her through any means possible, including showing her possible futures that are not possible.

That way Luke can actually train her and a good third of the movie can be devoted to that. Part of that could be the true story of what happened to the Jedi Academy that Luke created and how Snoke turned Ben. We could also see the Knights of Ren come to Ahch-to since her growing powers are like a beacon to Snoke. Luke and Rey together can wreck the Knights. Ultimately Rey is forced to leave, but Luke, not wanting the same mistakes of his past to happen to Rey, decides to go with her. That way we would be able to see Luke use the force and just how powerful he truly is. So many good ways to go from there, and I'm sure JJ could come up with some interesting and surprising arcs that would stay grounded in the Star Wars canon that real fans cherish.

The drawback is that is would then likely take 2 full movies to properly complete the story... Of well, I can wish can't I?

 

All I get from this is that it isn't the movie YOU would of written.

How much training did Luke get from Yoda in Empire??? Rey and Luke are DIFFERENT characters. Rey doesn't struggle connecting to the force like Luke did, she's not as conflicted she's more of an adept and has embraced her connection. Luke gave her 2 lessons... and hey... maybe the 3rd lesson she will learn if she returns to Ach-to like Luke did to Dagohbah.

Killing Snoke relieves of us of the need to rehash the whole "coflicted and redeemed" from the first trilogy. Yes a character can be LOST to the dark side. Ben might have mommy issues but again... he's NOT ANAKIN.

The rest is just bantha poodoo, they didn't explain almost ANYTHING in the first Trilogy. In this one all you needed to know is that Ben Solo did destroy the academy, that Luke felt he failed Ben and all his students. We didn't know how Darth Vader became Vader... just that the Emperor turned him to the dark side.

If anything you seem to think certain things happened in the original trilogy that didn't. Like lots of explanations.

Also, there of tons of great nuggets that leave lots for JJ to play with in the final movie. The broken saber, the Jedi books in the Falcon, the force powers manifesting itself in galaxy again... the Falcon has every one in the same place... that's pretty cool.

Also, I agree with you about Kylo not being right or lying about who Rey is... she never confirms what he says, there's still room for another character twist there. But I'm ok if that doesn't happen. Part of the theme that's developing in these movies is a reaffirmation of the light side... the force returning in a big way to connect things. A new dawning of the Jedi with perhaps a new philosophy that's more applicable to their time.

And you also seem to be mad about things you want to happen in the next movie... that are already likely!

Force ghost Luke... of course! Rey building a new saber. Yes! Phasma returns again... ehhh, maybe not.

The thing that bums me out about the new trilogy, so far, is that they don't use Treepio or R2 much. I hope they end up with Rey and Finn in some way... would love some droid bickering again.

I never cared about who Snoke was... he wanted to be the new Emperor, that's enough. Luke shut himself off from the force, and yet was still able to project himself across the galaxy... and he looked like he would of kicked Kylo's ass if he had actually been there. Also, I think it's very much in character that Luke wouldn't kill his nephew, whom he felt he failed, even if he had shown up on Crait. Everyone is acting like Luke went out like a punk... what did Yoda and Ben do? Run off and hide! Obi Wan didn't kill Vader, Yoda never left his planet. I think Luke went out like Luke should, using his powers to save his friends and then becoming a powerful force ghost.

If you just THINK about the first trilogy... I see all the themes and behaviors are still there. It's consistent. Hell, I want Rey to be a Skywalker, but Ben is the result of the Skywalker line, Darth Vader's lineage having a dark streak makes sense. There's a chance that Ben can be redeemed, he could of killed Leia but didn't. But he may be too far gone, it happens even in the SW Universe.

On the humor side... THANK GOD. There was almost zero humor in the Prequels, it was so flat and cringey at times. And there was plenty of humor in the original trilogy, it was more buddy film based humor but there was lots of humor. Rian found a way to bring that back based on the new characters, Poe trolling Hux was exactly like he did to Kylo in the Force Awakens, Hux is a funny scene chewing character, I love what Rian did with him. Domnall is great.

I like that Rian has done a reset, and I don't think it compromises the "pillars" at all.

 

When I left the theater I initially loved it. But when I got home and was laying in bed thinking about what had transpired, I began to dislike it. I think it could have been split into two films. As an ending of the trilogy movie, I think it would be great, but as the middle chapter I think it leaves much to be desired for episode 9. Outside of the conclusion of Rey/Kylo, I don't really see where we go from here. I don't think I'll have a final opinion on TLJ until I see what episode 9 brings