How to "save" the sequel trilogy

As we saw in TLJ, Hux has a thing with Poe, and as I said, Hux is uninteresting because he's no match for Rey or even Finn.

So how do we fix this? There are two options: He confronts Poe in the same way Captain Canady did. Staying in the main ship and sending other guys to have a cool space battle OR he can do it himself (maybe he's a skill fighter, anything is possible). Have him in a Tie, confronting Poe in a space combat at the same time Finn faces Phasma (or someone else), Rey-Kylo and so on...

 

Star Wars Is something to each of us, right ?
It is. It Is, Indeed.
Some the Same (or similar) and Some, Not so Much.
And It's All Good.

Something ... meybey a 'Lil helpful ... meybe ?
Let go (this a Yoda thing ?) of what ya want or think ya want.
Yeas, Really.
Let it go.
What's also called "packin' Baggage"

Just be told a Story.

Tryin' in some or Other way to be helpful here ( as an OG Fan, I been through some things meybe some Ain't)
Folks makin' these Stories Care, Just Like We Do.
They Are of Us.

 

You can't save the sequel trilogy. It was built on a poor foundation with dull, uninspired characters, that no one cares about.

 

I care. Theory disproved

 

Ah, one person out of a hundred thinks Star Wars is doing great and headed in the right direciton. Theory disproved!

 

Right. Great contributions to this thread!

I love how nothing you said was generic or negative! Brilliant ideas all around!


"Ride the Tide"

-SOAS

 

Show your process to decide it was 1/100.
I'm pretty sure most of the folks here are okay with it.

 

I care too, but I'm sure that also means that by including me we've doubled the sample size, so it's 2/200, right?

I get where you're going with this, but I think it's important that fans be allowed to be critical.

That being said, the overly negative culture needs to end. Look at Solo, for instance. I see people who'd identify as Star Wars fans who are actively rooting against this movie.

If it comes out and is bad, sure, recognize that. But good lord, everyone's an armchair critic, yet almost no one knows how to critically watch film. It's a terrible match, and part of the reason why people throw around stupid ideas when assessing these films now- people want to be "cool" and pick apart plot holes, regardless of the fact that they have no idea what they're talking about.

 

And we all know his vote counts for 98% of the vote!

 

That's awesome, this proves that they're REAL Star Wars Fans.

 

Totally agree! Being critical is necessary human behavior.. though, criticism and publicly hating/complaining are not the same thing. At all.

There is a difference between critically discussing something respectfully, and making a huge public spectacle akin to a parade of pure negation that can clearly be classified as an agenda.

The latter seems to be the common case nowadays.. thanks to the internet, and peoples' increasingly extreme feelings of entitlement.

Perhaps I could have worded things a bit differently...

*I wish people would refrain from trying to continually influence the outcomes of these movies with their personally selfish desires.

Example: I believe that the SW fan base caused George Lucas to heavily modify his original plans for the prequel trilogy.

He ultimately decided not to go through with his original ideas due to the extremely negative public reaction that fans had towards TPM, and more specifically the character of Jar-Jar Binks. I would really like to experience the version of 'Attack Of The Clones' that GL would've made if there was not such public outrage from the fan base.

I think AOTC would have been a MUCH more satisfying film and the PT would altogether be a lot better as a whole. Matter of opinion, I know.

Lucas was able to free himself from the dictation of movie studios, only to have his own fans become the replacing source of that restrictive sorrow.

It's honestly quite easy to see why he disliked us as much as he once did the Hollywood Machine.

Our lack of Faith is disturbing, to say the least.


"Ride the Tide"

-SOAS

 

Pablo Hidalgo confirmed on twitter that Rey was wearing a "battle dress" in the vision as a little girl.

It is also a common visual aid to show that you expect someone to come back for you and hence counting the days.

If you know you have been sold, you also know that you are someone else's property and hence that nobody is coming back for you.

I disagree. On one hand, she feels she was left there by mistake.....on the other, she is supposedly fully aware of being sold for drinking money (ergo purposely left behind). There is a big difference between the two.

I am assuming you mean scavengers, as Junkers are part mechanical aliens on Lotho Minor according to canon.

Since salvage was the main occupation on Jakku (as per the TFA Visual dictionary), it would be a safe assumption that her drunk parents were scavengers.

That being said, Before the Awakening, Rey's Survival Guide and Poe's Logbook make it clear that scavengers can barely afford food, subsisting on expired ration packets (from the Battle of Jakku thirty years before) which they receive in exchange for scavenged parts. Even things like fruit were considered a rare luxury on Jakku.

Keeping that in mind, it is highly unlikely that Rey's scavenger parents would possess the ship depicted in the Art of the Force Awakens if even food was hard to come by.

Every point I mentioned in my earlier post is based on either canon material (and I have read/seen every bit of canon material released except maybe a few children's puzzle books) or something clarified on twitter.

If things line up for you and make sense, I applaud your acceptance of it....however, for me it does not.

 

I just don't understand why people are so confident that's true.

Imagine this hypothetical sequence of events:

-Rey is left on Jakku (for literally any other reason that being sold for drinking money)

-Unkar Plutt tells her, as a child, that she was sold for drinking money. Sadly not an uncommon style of tactic for manipulators

-Rey grows up believing that lie

-Rey has her weird "cave vision" thing. This doesn't really reveal anything to her, but instead forces her to look inward, dashing any hopes she had of destiny

-Kylo further hammers down that low self esteem. "You're nothing, but not to me" is basically just another manipulation. He really has no idea who her parents are. He just wants her to feel like she needs him


There, there's still a story to be told. Rey's parents don't have to be anyone special- but they also don't have to be drunks that sold her. I think many fans were being overly trusting of the narrative in TLJ, comfortable that what we saw on screen could be taken at face value.

And of course, that's not to say that the surface level story isn't true- just that, at this point, it doesn't have to be.

 

Thank you for clarifying your position. Even if I don’t agree with it, it’s very much appreciated

That’s certainly interesting, but not very enlightening. Do we have any idea what that’s supposed to mean?

Yes, that was clearly the intention. Rey is expecting her parents to come back for her. That was pretty well established in the movie and also well established to be misguided per her conversation with Maz.

Or, to make your bleak life more tolerable, you convince yourself the people who sold you will one day realize their mistake and come back for you. Again, we were given direct support of this perspective from Maz telling her she already knows the truth.

‘Unlikely’, yes. ‘Impossible’, no.

Whether they really did it for the drinking money is irrelevant. The point is that they willingly sold their own daughter to a cretin like Plutt. Whether they’re really dead in a ditch somewhere is also irrelevant. The point is that they were never coming back for her even though she held out hope they someday would.

The obstacle Rey needed to overcome was this acceptance - to embrace the fact that, deep down, she knows her parents were garbage people that never deserved to be parents in the first place. That the ones whose job it was to nurture and protect her had tossed her away like she didn’t matter. And so that’s her greatest fear: that she doesn’t matter. That’s the personal terror Kylo was trying to feed on to sway her to his side. That’s why her acknowledging the truth and still rejecting his offer is a triumph. She faced her demons and prevailed.

Buying all that back now and making her parents significant beyond being mere subjective impediments cheapens her journey up to this point. It cancels out her growth as a character. It would be fundamentally counterproductive and a truly awful story choice . . . . . . . in my opinion.

I’m sorry the picture isn’t so clear to you. To me, the reveal in TLJ was nothing but reinforcement of what we were told in TFA and made to server the character’s arc by providing her closure. Maybe I’m forcing myself to not see them, but I truly don’t see any inconsistencies there.

 

There is no inconsistency
There's just no character growth.
Mind telling us how Rey changed at the end of TFA and the end of TLJ? Nay more, how did she change from the beginning of TFA to the end of TLJ?

 

Then lets just agree to disagree.

I am glad to have enlightened you with the information. It was a clarification to your last post about her costume, which you brought up. I assumed you wanted to know the source of the information.

If Rey was aware that she was sold into slavery, she would not be counting the days for her parent's return. Is there any instance in history or fiction where a person is sold into slavery and yet it confident that the persons who sold them would come back?

If she already knew the truth (whether Maz clarified it or she already knew it), then what was she doing going into the cave with that same question? It makes the whole cave sequence stupid and unnecessary.

Life on Jakku can be easily figured out if you read books like Rey's Survival Guide, High Noon on Jakku (Short Story), Poe's Log Book, Before the Awakening, the TFA Visual Dictionary, some of the SW Adventure comics and even the third book of the Aftermath trilogy.

I would say definitely impossible. If getting rancid food packets to survive is a daily struggle, the last thing you'll possess is a large family ship.

And where do we have a confirmation that Plutt bought her? Her vision (where you see him holding her hand as a child) is described as an acid trip so definitely cannot be taken as gospel....and I don't think there is any official confirmation that he bought her.

And even if they sold her to someone and flew off, how are their bodies now allegedly in a pauper's gave in the Jakku desert? They really need to get their facts straight, considering Kylo got all this information from Rey's mind.

I hope you realise I never said at any point that Rey's parents were important or from some special lineage. I am a firm believer in the Rey Random theory and I like the idea of her coming from nowhere.

However, her story must make sense across all canon materials and right now it does not.

Again, I am glad you don't see inconsistencies. After reading and watching almost every canon material released, I do.

 

I was asking whether Pablo had provided any insight into what "battle dress" means. I don't understand the significance of calling it that. But you seem to.

It’s a coping mechanism known as ‘denial’ or ‘abnegation’. It’s when a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it’s not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.

Are you asking for specific instances in fiction writing where a character’s state of denial is a plot point? That shouldn’t be much of a feat, but a rather unnecessary one I’d personally like to avoid if that’s alright with you

It wasn’t my intention so assert you did. My position is that we’ve gotten all from them that the story requires and there are no lingering questions that would benefit the story to answer. We evidently don't agree on that.

 

Considering there was no battle in the galaxy during the last 30 years, Rey wearing a battle dress opens a lot of unanswered questions, none of which are addressed.

This explanation of 'denial' or 'abnegation' is more the viewer/reader trying to reconcile all the lacunae between the TFA (+elated materials) and TLJ (+related materials). Before The Awakening even hints at Rey noticing a loving maternal figure as if remembering someone, again definitely not pointing at drunkards who sell off their daughter. So while you might be content with the idea of Rey knowing the truth about her past and yet rejecting Maz's explanation, the cave answer etc....I am not.

I specifically asked for an instance in fiction where a person knows they are sold into slavery and yet expect the people who sold them to return for them....a very specific question and not one about all random situations where denial was a plot point.

I assume you are basing your opinion on the movies and at the most the novelisation of the movie...if that is so, I can imagine you reaching this conclusion. My observation is based on canon materials beyond these two sources....if this is the case, I suggest we agree to disagree as we are seeing things from completely different places.

 

the toxicity of sequel haters is why I am glad luke han and leia died without proper fanservice send offs

 

Wait, where do we hear that there were no battles?

I have a hard time believing that a place as big as a galaxy can achieve peace for that long, when we can't even achieve it on our small planet.