SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

So what's the point of Anakin's fall ? For what I remember it was his inability to let go. Let go about people ( his mother, Padmé, Ahsoka ), let go about proving others he can be successful, let go about being the better jedi the world has known.

I once again repeat myself of what is cannon. The jedi order didn't fall because of celibate, they felt because they thought they could bring peace by going at war. It's the point of Yoda's journey in the season 6 of the Clone Wars.

The major discord we have here is how do people see this saga. People are in awe with jedis but they don't give a **** about the jedi code which is timeless. They want a jedi code 2.0 but only with the attachment thing.

But when you're attached to something, you fear to lose that thing and fear is the edge of the dark side. If Luke changed this ( but who is he to change this millenary code ?? ), he's no more a jedi, he's a force user like ahsoka and much more he's an impostor.

Is it because he was an impostor that Kylo Ren destroyed his work ? Maybe.

So the question of this movie is : Is Luke Skywalker an impostor who let his child in slavery on a desert planet and rather show off with his apprentice than do whatever given dad would have done for his family. He saved his father and didn't care about his child ? Where is the logic in there ? Please a crowd by the cuteness of a baby girl ?

That's not how you write stories. The major point here is I don't care about the story, give everything you want as long as Rey has a legitimacy to be that strong and be a Skywalker as if the story of the jedi order was linked to this family.

Luke just fixed Anakin's errors, he's not the key of the whole jedi order story, he's just the cure of Anakin's mistakes.

 

Yoda was 1000 years old or so though. He may have had children somewhere in all that.

 

Anakin's fall was a multitude of factors, which include his inability to let go, but the reason why his "love" with Padme was toxic was because neither of them actually loved each other. It was a codependent relationship, aka mutual parasitism, that lasted as long as it did because of the thrill of keeping it secret. The problem with arguing that love makes you weak or go crazy or whatever nonsensical crap is that if you've ever been in love you know that it can make you stronger. Everyone in the world who has been in a good, healthy relationship knows this.

Anakin didn't fall because he fell in love. Anakin fell because:

a) He was being manipulated by Palpatine.
b) His power made him arrogant.
c) He was being raised by a collection of arrogant idiots who believed that the key to dealing with humanity was by suppressing everything that makes you human.

Yes, when you're attached to something you fear losing it. But you know what helps with that? Proper therapy from people who understand that such fears are entirely natural and easy to overcome. Frankly, if Anakin had proper therapy from someone who understood what he was going through he never would've made the mistakes he did. And the fact that this has been a rule for thousands of years is not proof that it's a good idea, it means that thousands of jedi have been equally stupid.

You know what Yoda should've done? "Oh, you're afraid because your visions show someone you love dying? Okay, how do they die? They die in childbirth, that makes no sense with our technology, where are they when they die, are they in a hospital? Do they have some sort of disease that makes pregnancy more of a risk?" What he should've done is led Anakin down a logical path that accepts that his fears are natural and assuages them, not said: "Let GO of everything you fear to lose." That's some robotic nonsense.

I don't know what you mean here.

 

The purpose of Anakin’s fall was the destruction of an inept and ineffective Jedi Order. It was the force itself that caused his fall not his attachments. The Force sent him visions of his mother suffering and dying. The Order prevented him from going to help her until it was too late. The force sent him visions of Padma suffering and dying. The Order offered him no help and advised him to ‘celebrate’ her death leaving him open to being seduced by the only one who did offer to help him save her; Palpatine. The order knew he came to them with attachments (his mother) and made no effort or simply weren’t equipped to help him either let go of them or manage them in a way that they can’t be used to manipulate him. They treated him like any other student and it was a colossal mistake on their part.



As for the Jedi Code, I doubt the code used by the PT Jedi Order is the same code used throughout the entire history of the Jedi. It was likely developed little by little over time and there is no way to know just how far back any specific rule actually goes including the one about attachments (unless Lucasfillm releases something that tell us so). It’s also wrong to assume that the entirety of the PT code is sacrosanct and Luke isn’t a true Jedi if he doesn’t adhere to every bit of it. Especially when we know of at least one PT Jedi who believed parts of the code should have been eliminated (Qui-Gon Jinn).

First of all, Rey was NOT a slave and was free to leave anytime she wanted/was able to. Second of all, you're making an assumption that Luke knows the Jedi code in it's entirety. He was never told about the code in the OT and we know virtually nothing about his life post ROTJ and certainly not if he has learned about any or all of the Jedi code. He may have only learned about bits and pieces of it and had to fill in the rest. Also, he has the same issue as Anakin did in that he already had attachments before he became a Jedi so he already had to contend with the danger it poses. He was able to handle his attachments just fine so adding a family of his own may not have been a problem. He also likely didn't have a way to identify force sensitives like the old Jedi Order did so was forced to take students who also already had attachments so an adjustment to the code had to be made or there wouldn't be any more Jedi.

 

That might be debatable. It's probably no coincidence that Rey didn't want to leave and provided free labor for collecting scraps for Unkar Plutt to sell. He gave her just enough food/water to keep a constant flow of free stuff to sell for a profit. All he had to do was tell her her family would return one day to take her away.

For all we know he made an agreement with whoever dropped her off to devise a lie to keep her profitable throughout her days on Jakku.

She could very well be a slave through manipulation.

 

In the novelization she specifically states that she's not a slave and free to choose for herself and there is nothing Plutt could do about it. So, no, it's not debatable.

 

Except we have no idea what he told her as a child and why she thinks her family is coming back (that's where the manipulation might come into play). There are a ton of holes that the future episodes will fill.

Nothing surrounding her past is really based in fact yet.

 

I suppose that's possible but her defiance in the book would seem to contradict that. We also don't know for certain that Plutt ever had any direct control over her. What's shown in the movie isn't reflected in the book as far as she being left with him or that he had anything to do with Rey believing that her family was coming back for her.

 

I've given up attempting to explain Anakin's fall and why he's the chosen one. Let's just face it. George Lucas is a genius, but the story told in the PT is just weak. The fact that people are debating it over a decade later kind of sums it up. The galaxy would have been better off if Anakin was never born. Anakin prevented Palpatine from being brought to justice, ended the Jedi Order, and helped bring in the Empire. Sure, he was redeemed in the end. I love the idea of forgiveness, but he is responsible for the death of countless billions.

 

It's always stated by the creative team in charge of the story that the movies ALWAYS take priority in terms of canon/story continuity. If the book even slightly contradicts the movie, go with the movie. I think it's pretty clear why she exhibits defiance.. she hates Plutt for taking advantage of her situation and exploits her labor for profit.

It's clearly shown in Rey's forceback that Plutt had physical control over her and was dragging her away from the ship that left. "Quiet, girl."

That's why I said we need to wait and see before we start jumping to conclusions and throwing stuff around as fact when it's not. We simply don't have enough information.

That's why its fun to speculate. I think it's very possible Plutt had direct control over her and purposefully kept her on Jakku for slave labor (which it very much is). He knows she's anchored to Jakku and takes advantage of her reluctance to leave.

We still don't know, however, if he had anything to do with her belief that her family will return.

 

She was a wage-slave. She was paid, and technically was free to leave, but she was paid so little that in practice she had to keep coming back to work to survive.

Which makes you wonder why the hell they'd reintroduce some of the worst elements of the prequels doesn't it?

 

Once again, you are confusing your wishes and your interpretation of what is shown.

I'm quite sure you're not comfortable with mysticism and spirituality.

Gold, flesh, power, who cares Skywalker ? Take it all.

Yes, I assume that if the training of Luke is complete and if he's a jedi, he's basically been told the rules. It seems ... obvious.

And what is funny, it's that you took off the part that you're not confortable with your theories. What is a jedi ? A dude with a lightsaber ? How deep is that ? How mystical and spiritual is that ?

Pick and Choose Skywalker, do what you want, you are the last, nobody cares.

 

Well, the "worst elements" is a matter of debate. I don't have issues with the Jedi Order. Most people are just upset with the "no marriage" thing because it prevents a Skywalker force monarchy. Given how unpredictable and dangerous the Skywalker family has proven to be it's in the galaxy's best interest if they're untrained in the force.

 

People are upset with the no marriage thing because it's fundamentally wrong, being in love does not make you weak nor does it turn you into a murderer. And the force itself is dangerous, it's a terrible idea as presented in the prequels which was why Obsidian railed against it in KOTOR 2; the way to fix that is with subtle retcons that make sense, not by being like: Oh well lets just repeat the suckitude!

 

Which, in essence, makes her virtually a slave (even IF Plutt didn't have anything to do with her belief that her family will return in the future, which I highly doubt). Sure, she might be TOLD she can leave whenever she wants, but that doesn't make it true, from a logical perspective.

What do you call someone who needs to find scraps of metal in order to survive the next day? If there's another word for it aside from "slave", I'm all ears.

What was she going to do.. steal a ship and hope she doesn't starve/dehydrate to death before she makes it.. to another planet somehow, then hopefully they're hiring on the daily?

 

Yep, there isn't any analysis in this, it's just the I want the Skywalker to have kids.

There is no debate, this is pointless and it has nothing to do with spirituality.

 

I'm not sure what's in my post that makes you think that other than I don't adhere to your belief that the Jedi Code is100% infallible and non-negotiable. For the record I'm a very spiritual person.

We don't have to assume as far as the OT goes because we know it didn't happen and he didn't complete his training but chose to leave before he was fully trained because of his 'attachments' and yet was later told by Yoda that he would be a Jedi once he faced Vader again despite continuing to cling to those same attachments and one he'd added since he'd left (his father). After ROTJ is still a mystery so we can't know for sure one way or the other.

Not sure what you're talking about here.

 

Looking at the rep you give me, you seem obviously very spiritual ...

Too bad you didn't see Star Wars was about spirituality too.

But I do agree about you don't see what I'm talking about because we're not talking about the same things. I suggest we just stop there, there are many other people to debate with.

 

Or you could just explain the comment I'm referring to. Other than that I fully understand your posts. Also I don't know what you keep saying about me giving you a rep. All I'm doing is debating the thread topic with you and others.