SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

It actually is considered to be bad writing. Because we see at least part of the story from Han's point of view, including a conversation where the relevant information would naturally come up, hiding it from the audience would be a cheap trick. Withholding vital information to unnaturally preserve a later reveal or twist is considered to be a hack move.

Your R2 example is different because it's part of a plan we are watching unfold, and we are aware that there is more going on than meets the eye. It's not like Luke and Leia had an earlier conversation about what was going on, but both of them somehow managed to not even bring up that they had a plan to rescue Han so that the audience would later be surprised that they had set it all up from the start.

From a practical standpoint, you should expect to see surviving characters appear in later movies - including Skywalkers. There is absolutely no way that Lucasfilm will end the Skywalker line with Ep9. As long as Mark Hamill is willing to appear in more movies, expect to see more of Luke. He's a gigantic draw for Star Wars movies. The Skywalker name also has financial value, so it's not going away either.

Nor should you be surprised if Rey ends up being the central character for Episodes 10-12. Just like there would have been more Luke Skywalker centric films in the 80s and 90s if it had been up to a corporate entity, there will be more Rey centric movies as long as the character continues to be popular and the actress is willing to star in the movies.

 

Hamil got second billing in TFA, so I don't think you can assume screen time = billing position.

Rey and Finn and co. are more established now.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2017 ---

No its not. Its a common storytelling technique.

The R2 example is the samething. Luke did something off-screen that we don't know about until later when it pays off. They cut the conversation with Maz and Han where the did for a reason, its to keep the audience in the dark as to what is said. It leaves us in the dark (we didn't know were Lukes lightsaber was) until the storytellers want us to know whats going on (when R2 fires it to Luke). Its the opposite as when we see the woman call in the 1st Order and the characters don't, we have more information then the characters and its used to build tension - we know they are coming, they have to hurry but they don't.

 

I don't think there is much argument that JJ Abrams' mystery box is a silly trick but it is something that he uses in everything he does and was obviously used in TFA. The fact that he used it means we should expect silly tricks whether we think it makes sense for the story or not.

As for the pages, the Scene with Leia and Finn occurs before Leia and Rey meet in the movie. As I've said previously, I don't think Leia would have known who Rey is until after Rey arrived at the resistance base or possibly while Rey and Chewie were on their way there after SKB was destroyed assuming they were in communication during the journey.

The Maz Scene only really tells us that the saber calling to her is something special. Maz not saying why it's special isn't proof she doesn't know, just that the audience isn't being told why it's special. Is it possible that she doesn't know? Certainly, but this page doesn't prove it. Again the mystery box is all about keeping the audience in the dark and only giving them the vaguest of hints regardless of the negative effects on the story. BTW; the saber calling to her being 'something special' points more towards Rey being a Skywalker because the saber being able to call to a non-Skywalker = the saber could call to anyone and there is nothing 'special' about that.

 

Unless like I said, it was Luke calling through the saber.

 

That's actually an interesting concept but it would also require a lot of explanation. How did Luke know someone would come in contact with the saber to receive his 'call'? How did he reconnect to the saber he lost 35 years previous to make it into a beacon? In the OT, there is no evidence of any special connection between Luke and his original saber to indicate such a thing is possible so how did it happen? Why didn't it call to Maz? She's a force user. Why would he have allowed the saber to end up in a box in Maz's basement where it was unlikely to be found by anyone much less Rey if it was supposed to be leading potential Jedi to Luke? I'm sure there are many more on top of those.

 

I think the smartest thing in the cut scene is that we don't know what Han said but also what Maz knew.

Han may has understood who she really is and told Maz, but it may be very well be the contrary: meaning that Han told Maz the little he (and us) knew about Rey (she's from Jakku, she's waiting for her family, etc...) and then Maz (knowing something more/else) got who she "really" was.

I also think, if Maz knew Rey is Luke's daughter, she probably thought it wasn't up to her to tell Rey "all" the truth.
To be more specific: if that's the case, then Maz guess was it's Luke's obligation to tell her child the rest of the story.

There's another option.
Han told what we all know and Maz did not know something more. The lightsaber called Rey and only then Maz realized Rey is someone special (just that: she's special).

In this case, Rey may be a Skywalker, a Kenobi, a none or a Solo. A Solo only if both Han and Leia were sure their daughter was dead (not just lost).

 

I know, but I wanted to weigh in on the pages.

I'm not arguing that with you. The vagueness of her statement means it could go either way. It's not proof she's a Skywalker but it's also not proof she isn't. However, the 'something special' comment, in my opinion, points more towards her being a Skywalker than being random. As I said in my previous post, if it can call to anyone, it would be a common thing rather than being 'special'.

 

Hamill got second billing to Harrison Ford, because Ford is a bigger star and his agent negotiated it. But Hamill was still ahead of everyone else in the movie. Billing position is worked out during contract negotiations, and the contracts for the ST were completed prior to TFA. So unless Ford is somehow back for TLJ, or one of the new actors negotiated top billing, Hamill will be on top.

I respect your opinions, but the type of withholding that would be required for either Han or Leia to know who Rey is would absolutely be considered hack writing. There is a very clear line between holding back a reveal, and deliberately misleading the audience in an unnatural way in order to preserve the reveal. It puts the reveal above the narrative. It's manipulative, and it cheapens the reveal.

If during the course of the narrative, it would be natural or expected for either the point-of-view characters or the audience to learn information, but that information is deliberately withheld solely for the sake of preserving a surprise reveal, that renders the reveal unearned. It's cheating the audience.

There are some story telling techniques that can be used to get around it, such an unreliable narrator, but those methods almost always require the story to be told from particular point of view.

 

Because he's the most powerful being in the galaxy and can have visions in the Force especially in the first temple which surely had some secrets hidden.

If you can get out an XWing out a swamp you can do many things it's just the idea you have of it that makes it possible or not.

It would bring in the movie a different story and make this saga still a Skywalker story because the main character will still be Luke. Now that the new crew is introduced, he can take his place back as the central character.

 

Except they don't. For them to refute it you have to make leaps of logic/assumptions.

 

I posted this yesterday regarding Maz's line. You may not have seen it so I'm posting it again along with your post that I quoted.

 

Im just saying, just because Luke will have a significant role doesn't = top billing. He may get it, he may not. Ultimately it doesn't really matter.

No, its not hack writing. Its characters passing information so that information can inform their actions (Maz encouraging Rey not being angry she went into Maz's things, Leia sending Rey to find Luke instead of going herself etc....) without the audience knowing because we aren't susposed to know yet. There is nothing misleading about not showing a conversation, if we find out Han said "I think she's Lukes daughter" to Maz, how were we mislead?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 24, 2017 ---

The whole point of the ST is to introduce a new generation of heroes. They aren't going to go back and make it all about Luke. Luke will play a signficant, but ultimately supporting role.

 

First of all, it was Yoda that pulled the X-Wing out of the swamp not Luke. Secondly, none of that explains or answers any of the questions I posed to you. There is a certain element of mystery to what he found at the first temple and other places that could make it possible but it would require a lot of explanation and movie time to make it work.

 

30 years after Dagobah, I think Luke can make it now. Are you that stuck to 1st degree thing ?

It wouldn't require much explanations at all. This is their job to tell stories, I have no doubt about that. Not much more than why Luke decided to break the code on his own, abandonned his daughter and his wife to a slaver ...

Take this parent thing out of your mind for once. It would make Luke a powerful being instead of a sore loser.

Edit : He didn't call to Maz, he called to Rey ... And he helped her beating Kylo Ren and escape Starkiller through the Force, I don't see where it is ... incredible. You can do whatever you want with the force.

 

So because a character doesn't puke out all the information th ey might have in ever scene, they must not know anything?

You seem to not understand the scene - Maz is convincing Rey not to go back to Jakku, she is telling her there is nothing there for her. Unless Maz knows something about Rey and/or her parents this is a very cruel thing to do. She is also pushing Rey to speak out Luke.

The scene easily works both ways - the crystal is calling to someone strong in the force, Maz found out from Han that Rey is waisting her life on Jakku, and Maz wants her to go find someone who can teach her. The crystal is calling to another Skywalker, Maz knows Rey is Lukes daughter so she is disuading her from going back to Jakku and go find her father.

The scene also doesn't turle out Rey Skywalker or in any way mean Rey Skywalker can't happen.

 

What Rey knows is the key then and we don't really know what that is for certain. She can't possibly know they are dead but it should be obvious, even to someone that has been deluding themselves like Rey has been, that no one is ever going to come for her on Jakku and continuing to wait is a waste of time. Here belief or delusion is was she has to let go of and accept as true that that's all it ever was not that her family is dead. Luke isn't part of her delusion so should be separated from it. In that context, Maz can know who she is and make that statement.