REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

I'd personally defend Kylo Ren as a great example of a powerful male character (a villain no less) who doesn't represent the alpha-male mentality or toxic masculinity.
He's in a position of power and he commands it with confidence, yet he's also sensitive and in touch with his emotions.

 

@Dark Cutie, @Lord Denton

They may be equal in the Force (or he may even be stronger), but she will likely always dominate him psychologically/emotionally. which means he will submit to her. doesn't mean imbalance or make him a total marshmallow (more than he already is), but there's no getting around it: they are yin and yan, which means they complement one another, not that they are exactly alike.

Ben can only be redeemed by sublimating his corrupted will because he isn't strong enough to carry himself in that way--Rey is strong enough for both of them (and he will be strong enough for her in other ways). and i ain't saying she needs to save him (not like that). i'm saying that once he's saved, she's the one who will help him to stay grounded and steady.

@LadyMusashi i'm okay with irrational arguments as long as everyone knows they are irrational ~ hahaha

 

JJ Abrams in the audio commentary of TFA:

"This whole location of Maz’s, of course, mirrors the cantina from A New Hope, as this Starkiller Base mirrors the Death Star. These were the kind of locations that felt like a given in Star Wars. For example, we looked at it like a Western or a fairy tale. What are the elements that you’re going to see that makes it this genre, this specific genre? You’re probably going to have a castle, and a prince and a princess, if you’re looking at a fairy tale. We wanted to give these sort of, fundamental, not cosmetic, but, sort of, prerequisite elements. These locations in which we can set our new story and our new characters.” - Just before Rey and Kylo meet in a very fairytale-esque forest in front of Maz's castle. He also described Rey as Cinderella and Kylo as a Prince later on."

JJ's commentary + all the elements (Kylo's relation with Rey in the movie and the novelization "Snoke: You have compassion for here", the erotic poster, Daisy Ridley "Reylo is amazing" and the Reylo things she liked on Instagram) = It's obvious now there will be something romantic between Rey and Kylo...

The future Reylo love theme by John Williams will be great

 

I think most of us have already sort of crystallized in what we believe about the things we care about in TFA at this point, and just keep going around and around on those topics. For myself, I can really see me changing my mind on something only based on hard evidence from Ep. VIII, or about something I don't really care much about (like, say, who Snoke is).

 

like @Choose Light said, we pick our passions. this topic is mostly silly to me, but i like flinging my two cents at it now and then if something new comes up. like you said, it's just for fun anyway. i can get worked up about the redemption threads. this, not so much. hahaha

 

Another proof Reylo is coming, a kiss in the second episode of the trilogy just like Han/Leia and Anakin/Padmé?

 

Exactly. Well, you're only half right. ALL of them are unconscious. You can't carry a fully grown person who's struggling, you can get your eyes scratched out or worse. And I'm not payed for it, I'm doing it out of devotion to THE CAUSE
(this made me laugh like a hyena by the way, thanks for that )))))))))))

Before someone reports me for condoning violence against woman and encouraging patriarchy.....THIS WAS A JOKE.

Yeah, it pretty much proves that they're not related. To me at least.....

I never said privilege isn't real, I said it's relative. And by that I mean it's not an abstract notion, something that behaves and generates the same effects in all cases.
Any privilege can also be a disadvantage, and the other way around. It's not fair to assume that someone had more REAL chances of success than someone else just because of a certain perceived privilege. You have to understand that perceived privilege first and make sure that it is indeed an advantage. Then you can judge the privilege holder. The privilege you mentioned is real, proven privilege, but the word is not used that way these days.
This is what I mean:
Let's take wealth, the most common perceived privilege. You look at a child who was born into a rich family (like Kylo Ren here), and you assume that he had lots of nice things and the opportunity to go to the best schools. And that's a very safe assumption. But there's a difference between an existing opportunity and the possibility to actually use it. In order to go to a good school, you have to be able to choose it, prepare for it, you have to set goals for yourself, you need a clear mind. And it's very possible that this one here was very confused when it was time to choose a good school. He struggled with many other issues, so much so that he had to go and study to become a Jedi. And how did he develop these issues? Partly because of his innate power, which is not anybody's fault, and partly because his rich parents had better things to do than pay attention to what was going on with him. So, was wealth really a privilege for him? Did he had a real chance to do what everyone assumes he could? Does he have to admit to this so-called privilege, feel guilty because of it? Should he check his privilege?

I agree 100% with everything you said here

Oh I'm not embarrassed, I get much, much worse than that. I'm fine with it

Ha ha ha.....Please don't make me start on that

I agree completely, but you just can't SAY it anymore......These are lovely times lol

Submit to her? What makes you believe that? Also, how is that NOT a power imbalance?

 

he'll submit to her because he's in love with her.
and it's not an imbalance unless she abuses it as an advantage.
again, he has strengths for her weaknesses in kind.

 

At the moment he is a bit too in touch with his feelings, I would say, but I think that is just cuz he is out of balance trying to deny the light side of the Force?

Then thank you for your patience with Reylo, Lady
I do not mean to engage you into conversation if you don't want to, but I always wanted to hear some input on the point that for me is making Finn/Rey romance unsustainable. Finn is not Force sensitive. How do you think he can ever hold his ground in that relationship if she is always more powerful than he is? And he will never be able to understand the strugle every Force User will have when faced with allure of the Dark Side. Can Finn really relate to Rey?

Oh no no no no no. Please God no.

He isn't strong enough now...cuz he is out of balance. Denying himself the light side.

They are not exactly alike...and they should compliment each other...but imo that should not come through domination/submission of any kind. But rather...acceptance.

I don't think Reylo is silly. I am first and foremost a Rendemptionist, but Reylo has the potential of being the epic lovestory of our time. If done right, that is. It already has all the controversy it needs to be so
Adam Driver can pull this of. I just hope Daisy Ridley can keep up.

Hmmm...you said before that you know the difference between how flappy legs fall on arms and lively ones while a woman is being carried bridal style, so I presumed you work as a bouncer in a women's only nightclub...or have been married many times

The CAUSE?? what cause?

Is hyena your spirit animal?

(Thnx....I'm funny )

It is a sadness of this world if you have to add this explanation in order to people catch the tone of your post, isn't it?
Oh well....hear hear to the few who need not the directions to read you properly

Agreed!

I am a very empathetic creature so I can totally see myself in the situation you were describing from the real world and also in the context of Kylo. And I can understand the desire to rebel against the circumstances in which you find yourself, however favorable they may be, if you feel lonely, misunderstood or detached from the world you live in and people who inhabit that world.

I know. (Leia quote, not Han )

That was meant to be a tease not and instruction to submit. Dammit....I am not Rey

Why not?

Can't say it? I just did...and will do it again.
These are postmodern feminism times we live in. I have huge issues with it. It seems to have either neutered all men to make them obedient or made them become deplorable chauvinists...or married lol....I want a challenge, not an a**hole.
Reylo better deliver in that ground (at least as far as the fictional romances go)

Still not a fan of this. I would hate to see Kylo submit to anyone. He doesn't need her. But he wants her. She doesn't need him. But she wants him. Cuz of all that he is and cuz of all that she is. Does that make any sense?

 

I don't mind reading

Everything you wrote makes sense.
For a nice safe beautiful love story.
I think I fail to see where does excitment part comes in. As in how will he excite her. And I can accept that for some that part is not as important as compassion, respect and kindness.
But I really believe Kylo can give her both...all. You know...after he saves the world and kills Snoke and everybody start calling him a hero Skywalker...lol..
I dunno...maybe I am idealistic, but I'm a sucker for lost causes, I guess

 

oh yuck. i used some unfortunate language there that can be readily misinterpreted. i blame it on PWD (posting while distracted).

i don't mean literally dominate or submit. i just mean that Rey is, for example, much stronger in her will than Ben. this is something she can support and teach and balance in him. whereas he is likely stronger in something like worldliness (and therefore can support, teach, and balance her in that regard).

a loving relationship is acceptance, but also growth. and these two have a lot of growing to do. we don't disagree, essentially. i'm just wording things poorly.

to be fair, if they had been managing better their kid might not have been a disaster. hahaha ~ but really, i agree with you. Rey doesn't need an FS beau.

i think Ben could be fun. i think there's a fun person under all that gloom and horror. i mean, c'mon: he's Han Solo's kid! we know he's snarky so he has a sense of humor. he's just on the wrong team with a set of claws in his ganglia. hahaha

 

My mistake, I see it now, I understood you wrong the first time

Holy hell, a bouncer! )))) You can't imagine how funny that sounds to me, that's the last job I would have. I haven't stepped foot in a nightclub since I was 15, back when I wasn't allowed to lol No, I like and I NEED peace and quiet. I haven't been married either.... again, peace and quiet ha ha Also, I didn't know women's only nightclubs only exist. Where's the fun in that?

I don't think I have one.

No, that's not what I meant. Rebelling against favorable circumstances is what real brats do, and it's ridiculous at any age. Unless of course if it's a symptom for something else. Many teenagers do it to get attention from their parents because getting yelled at is the only form of real emotional interaction they have access to. That's very sad, but I was talking about something else. What I meant was....sometimes you can't take advantage of favorable circumstances because of other problems, which in a way cancel them. A favorable circumstance that you can't use is not a privilege. So people shouldn't make assumptions without knowing ALL your circumstances, not just the so-called privileges.
Look, you could have the most beautiful sunrise right in from of you....or you could live in a place where you get spectacular sunrises every morning......it doesn't matter if you're BLIND. But many people will still envy you for living there. Wonder why you waste the opportunity to watch the sunrise. Telling you that if they were in your place, they'd do that every morning and be very grateful for it. But you WOULD do that, if only YOU COULD. And they can't see that you're blind, and keep droning on. That makes it very frustrating to have it thrown in your face.
This is why I hate the talk of privilege.

And in Kylo Ren's case, the privileges were not just canceled by other issues. They also canceled THEMSELVES.
Rich parents = busy parents
Rich family history = crushing expectations
The force = being hunted by Snoke
Being a prince (because it has been mentioned here) = that's ridiculous, titles don't mean anything, he doesn't know he's in a fairytale

So when I hear that he's privileged....and he should admit his privileges.......

Ooooh, I see.....

Because politics and religion are not allowed on this forum.

I hope so, I never saw a romance movie I liked, maybe it will finally happen. I mean I haven't seen many, but only because all of them seem to be mighty boring, so my point still stands.

 

His take on the force vision is interesting. Rey and Ren, Yin and Yang.

 

I knew I liked you for a reason I misunderstood before

Well...Glad I can distract you enough from the struggles of your privileged life to make you laugh
(too much? I'll back off, Kylo )

Oki doki....I think you have some prejudices and misconceptions against women. Only some of us are loud and anoying the others are, well...vocal but endearing....cute even, undeniable, for the most part

I dunno what is alluring in women's only nightclubs, I've never been. But I can imagine it could have something to do with a bunch of sexy oiled guys dancing and stripping on a stage for them? Or bouncers that will bridal carry them when they're drunk/unconscious

Mine is dragon. Too obvious, I know. But subtelty is not my thing, lol....ah well...I am what I am

You can be soooo judgemental sometimes...IT is NOT ridiculous if you rebel cuz you can not stomach the origin of that favorable circumstance!!!
The pain is real, man...even if you don't see it

Ahhh... now you get it. I was talking about something else too. Not the same thing as you, but something else....have you ever read Zelazny's Amber chronicles and the story of one Corwin, Lord of Amber? I was talking about that kind of rebelion. Sure, he can sound spoiled and selfish at times, selfcentered even. But what he rebels against is a thing worthy of rebeling against (the f*cked up ways of his world that he can't change unless he kills everybody in it cuz, you know, no one really wants to change the f*ucked up world they live in...but he can't do that cuz he is essentially good)....and the way he does it by honoring his (the) principles and moral obligations not cuz it gains him favor but because, you know, it is the right thing to do under the sithy circumstances, as well as his LEGACY and DUTY as Prince? Being the only one who honors Duty cuz it is obliging, not cuz it will bring him favors, what ironically means that he is the only one who is worthy of them. Favors he declines, btw...

Then we are not talking about privilege. And you yourself bear at least a part of responsibility for other people's behaviour, judgement and prejudice cuz you never let them know you were blind? So I'd say that 'privileged whinny' kid should stop hiding behind his handicap as an excuse to judge back his judgers? Yeah yeah locking oneself in a castle behind thick walls and shutting all people out cuz they are unworthy and can never understand or truly see him/her sounds grand....if it was true, that is. Not all people are unworthy. One just have to be brave enough to let go of one's prejudices and give them a chance. Or give up on them and lock his/her heart away until he/she shrivels up and die alone. Your choice. Your consequences. And I don't judge. Just...do it quietly...with no whinning...lol...
(Backing off now)

We don't have to talk about it anymore.
Being a vocal smartass woman that I am, I like to have the final word in every discussion anyway

You make an excellent point. I agree with this.

Better late then ever is what I always say

Say what?!! no way...how will I ruffle some feathers then?
As an aside...what has 'sometimes no means yes' have to do with politics or religion? Unless we talk about grabbing preferences of a sexy conservative president, ofc (Trump so is not )

It does.
You know what I am tired of seeing? In serious romance movies? Sad or tragic endings. It's like wtf...it's like...two lovers are set apart cuz of circumstances, flawed characters or selfish nature of one (or both of them), life is sith, the world is bad, there is war and whatnot separating them with a bunch of million other reasons like they don't want to own to their emmotions cuz they are too pridefull or are involved with someone else and are blind and/or scared to take a real chance....and the story usually progresses so that throughout the movie they overcome many (or all) of that sith and then....what happens? one of them dies...WHAT kind of message is that?? You can redeem yourself but still are noth worthy of a prize (a good woman's love, for example)?
F*ck that...I think that in so many ways...a redeemed man is so much more worthy of love. Cuz he has been to the dark side. And came back. Faced the weaknesses of his own charachter and triumphed over them! That shows strength...of character. What the hell else is more worthy of a true love and happy ending?!!
In my book, such a man is more worthy than a man who never triumphed over his darkness cuz he never faced it (all people have darkness, some people face it others pretend it's not there...but oh it so is and it so manifests, be one willing to admit it or not)
That is why I cringe with the every fibre of my being when someone suggest that the best story for Kylo is for him to redeem himself...then die some horrid pointless selfsacrificing death so the audience can go...awwhhhh...that's sad, but he was bad and he did deserve to die....while they maintain feeling ever so superior and detached from the people who struggle through life and take risks making wrong choices along the way but are essentially more brave...wtf??!!
That's why I prefer rom coms. Everyone is being a prickle but somehow they overcome it and still have a happy ending.
(This is personal to me, can you tell? Lol)

ETA:
I did remember now a serious romance movie I liked. Silver lining playbook. But can that one really be called a serious romance movie cuz it is funny and has a happy end?


ETA2:
What I want Kylo's ending to be.
1. Save himself. Triumph over his darkness.
2. Save the galaxy/kill Snoke
3. Get the girl.
4. Say "screw you and your priviledges" to his accusers and judges, hypocrites that did not take the chance to understand his motivations before, but now are 'approving' of him when he saved the world. "In your face....I didn't do it for your privileges or your favors. I did it cuz....It was my duty!" Then ride of into the sunset to the unknown reaches of Space until his (cameo) return in ep. 10 when his and Rey's kids (baby Skywalkers) will be needed for another cycle of the neverending saga that is Star Wars. As an aside...it would be nice that he and Rey have twins...boy and a girl with kind of "Jacen and Jaina" story arc...a sibling rivalry that is so much more gratifying than 'cousins rivalry'....

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 4, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 4, 2017 ---

They can do that as best buds

Sith...I revealed too much of myself...again....where is my Kylo Ren mask?!

 

)))))))) This keeps getting funnier and funnier!

I know, I WAS KIDDING!

Oh so they're strip clubs...didn't think of that.

You can't be a dragon, they're not real! I know we can be whatever we want but we have to draw the line somewhere Choose something that exists!

I wasn't talking about that kind of rebellion, I was talking about rebellion as attention seeking behavior.

Then he's a coward, isn't he? He knows she SHOULD kill many people, and he has the power to do so, but he's "too good"? I say he's weak, not good. Good would be to get rid of the people that are causing damage. Refusing to do so only shows that he BELIEVES himself to be good and above murder. He doesn't want to see himself as a murderer, so he hides behind so-called principles. He's doing HIMSELF a favor instead of helping his subjects. Unless of course if everyone in the land is evil, in which case....why does he even bother? Just leave and let them kill each other. But then again, I haven't read the book, so I might be wrong. But I'll read it, it sounds very interesting.

Yes, that's just my point. An advantage must be available in order to be be considered a privilege.

Let's add to that example. Let's say that no one believes that you're blind no matter how hard you try to make them understand. You weren't born blind, your eyes still look perfectly fine, and you're familiar enough with the area to move around without hitting things. You were born with perfect vision, so no one wants to hear that you can't see anymore. What then?

It doesn't bother me to talk about it, it bothers me to never reach a consensus. Most times, it's a never ending discussion.

Well, feminism is politics.

The message is......"We wanted to make you sad this Sunday afternoon. We figured you were relaxed and in a good mood, so why not ruin that for you?" lol

I know, it's very disturbing. Kylo Ren's death would make EP 9 one of the most depressing movies in history. This is not some disfigured old man who barely survived for years, he's a 30 year old who is very much full of life. On top of that, he has so much potential that his death would be a loss no matter how much harm he caused in the past. Even if he didn't get redeemed by the end of EP 9, his death would still be tragic simply because he is what he is. He could make the right choices at 40, 50, 60, he has plenty of time, why waste him like that? I don't know, maybe he deserves to die, but watching it would be like watching a dragon (ha!) dying. Maybe he ate villagers, maybe there was no other choice, but he's still an almost mythical creature. It doesn't matter that the people won't miss it, it's still an serious loss.

You're lucky that you're able to enjoy them. I think they could be used to torture me. Just glue my eyes open, play Serendipity and watch my mind leaving me completely ha ha

That sound nice.....except for the twins part. They're not too common in the real world, so how many times can they appear in SW before it looks weird?

By the way, I won't have access to the internet for the next couple of weeks, so whatever smart reply you have p) I won't be able to see it for a while. Have fun!

 

People get so passionate by "what they want" out of the sequel trilogy, that they get clouded, stubborn and passionate and when it doesn't play out their way, they will be disappointed. This is not the way to look at these things. We are all speculating and I hope whatever happens is a surprise to us, even if it leans towards Reylo, or Finnrey, or Stormpilot or everyone lives like monks, or whatever. I just don't want to be nauseated about it, I don't think anyone does. I personally think it's leaning on some kind of bond between Rey and Kylo Ren, but it doesn't have to be Twilight or even romantic at all (I mean they still could be related), but it's going to be something. No one wants freaking Twilight. NO ONE. People got to put their panties in the freezer and just be patient and chill.