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REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Moral Hazard, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. YubNubBub

    YubNubBub Rebel General

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    I know its already been brought up but to me the whole line "Don't be afraid I feel it to" kind of points me in the obvious direction.
     
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  2. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    What direction? The acknowledgement of their mutual fear of dentists?

    Imo...it's forcebond formation. The connection. The moment is electric. Ofc they feel it too. :p
     
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  3. YubNubBub

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    I think its attraction. Like in her mind "I know hes evil but admittedly I am attracted" and his "I know she is good but I am attracted". They would of course be afraid of that because of the implications.

    I could be wrong. Guess we will wait and see. But I bet she wants a piece of his dark side.... heh.
     
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  4. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard
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    I work as a Correction Officer and I work closely with those individuals that have murdered for whatever reason and feel that they deserve another chance at society. Some of them do, some of them have a wife and children, sometimes even young children that don't quite understand why daddy is locked away; Its eye opening to see their families visit them with so much love and know this guy did that unspeakable act. Their girlfriends most definitely love the bad boy type because we catch them trying so desperately to make love out in the open before anyone can see.

    Then when they are released and come back within a few weeks and a few months you know that they are forever lost. In terms of Kylo being redeemed its possible. He would have to totally turn his back on the FO because Rey actually saw him kill his dad for his own selfish reasons. Most people I work with have an excuse that they did it to protect someone or themselves. What reason did Kylo have to kill his dad, but to fall deeper to the dark side, and the woman in question saw this first hand, and she calls him a monster, so he would have to do a 360 in my book for there to plausibly be a Reylo, or if Rey falls that could be a way as well. Everyone no matter what they do can be redeemed, it will be wonderful to see how this is played out on film in a fairy tale setting..
     
    #144 Rogues1138, Jan 2, 2017
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  5. Admiral Raddus

    Admiral Raddus Rebel Official

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    #Am Against Reylo.

    Cousin Incest is creepy.
     
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  6. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    ha ha ha :D

    You're kidding right?

    I always assumed that the probe doesn't hurt unless you're trying to hold it off. And that in that scene Rey was crying because Ren was revealing all the emotions she has been hiding her entire life. I guess her emotions were somehow closer to the "surface" of her mind than the map, because he got to those immediately and she didn't even try to fight back.

    Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if they met in other circumstances (and he said Hello instead of chasing her ha ha) she would have liked him immediately.

    I think he can take a lot of pain without showing it. Speaking of which, I always assumed that "Don't be afraid, I feel it too" means that he's feeling the intensity of the probe AND her pain. He's letting her know that he knows what she feels and won't accidentally crush her brain or something like that. I think he feels everything that's going on inside a "victim's" head, from their pain to their emotions. That would explain why his emotions change so fast while he's looking at Rey's past. He feels the loneliness, the relief (when he sees the island), everything.

    But she's only 19! And she has almost no experience interacting with people.

    Oh I'm not saying he's deranged because of what he did in the movie. His actions AND reactions (being reckless, getting angry etc) are perfectly understandable. No, I'm saying he's deeply disturbed BENEATH all that. This is someone who has been manipulated, lied to, and is constantly doing things that he hates. He's sick mentally and emotionally.

    #ToKnowMeIsToLoveMe :cool::p

    I don't think Ren used the same technique on Rey and Poe. He's reading Rey's mind, but he's purposely inducing pain in Poe's brain. He was "squeezing" Poe's brain with the force, actual physical torture instead of mind reading.

    Yeah, I think it was both pain and shock. She never saw Kylo Ren doing something truly horrible, so chances are she believed that he might go home. That would have been a very awkward ride in the Falcon lol
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2017 ---
    The vast majority of the world population can't hear you over the sound of wedding bells. Seriously.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2017 ---
    PRIVILEGED? How is he privileged??
     
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  7. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Whaaaa? ;)

    Nope. Well Okay...she may have been scared a little. In a good way...like parachuting is scary, or ridding a roller coaster....or taking on a ice dragon on nightmare settings :p

    That makes perfect sense to me!

    Are you sure? She meets Finn that way (when she has the upper hand) and she never checks him out like she does kylo. Finn doesn't excite. He is not a challenge. Tall dark unrelenting knight/death incarnate on a mission does :p cuz liking him is so freaking conflicting, she knows she shouldn't....women don't like to be told what they should or shouldn't do. Just saying...
    (You know that moment between Rey and Finn on the Falcon when Han's freighter is about to gulf them up and Finn is climbing up to get a better view of that ship and he uses Rey's head as support....the way she says...get off? Not an ounce of chemistry there...i totally believe her when she says that, that she wants him off and not touching her...lol...no conflicting feelings there whatsoever)

    That makes perfect sense too. Hmmm...

    Makes sense, again. I guess I forget that, that she is very young. But to my defense, I am only tough with people/charachters I like. She needs to mature...fast...in 8.

    Sick is a bit too harsh word. But I don't want to sound like I am biased towards kylo (i totally am) and start making excuses for his behaviour. I don't think he is sick. I think (hope) he is temporarily aflicted with a darkened state of mind cuz he can't find his balance? His behaviour is a consequence of his conflict. Of the dark and the light inside him. Conflicted people act in conflicting irrational manner. Dunno much about Ben but I think Ben sucked as the light side user trying to please his mom, his uncle, his dad the same way he sucks as the dark side user trying to please Snoke. And by trying to please i mean trying to prove that he is commited and willing to accept what they think he should be, either a completely light side user or a completely dark side user. But he can't. Cuz he is not either/or....he is both. So until he realizes that he will never be at peace. He must embrace both the lightness and the darkness in him. And by that i mean not to shy away from the good feelings and not to cover away from the bad ones, but rather taking responsibility for sith he has done. And he has done sone bad sith.
    But he is not the only one. I can't escape the feeling all of his rolemodels, Leia, Han even Luke did some sith in the past that made Kylo feel betrayed, disapointed with them enough to turn away from the light. What is his motivation for it? Why the hell did he do it? All of it? That is the biggest question of TFA and not who is Rey's father.

    Lol...i dunno...don't know ya :p except that occasionally you make sense, hahaha.
    Anyway...for me, liking trumps loving. The same way that for some men cuteness trumps beauty. Liking someone is a path to loving them. Cut the liking part love will wither and die. Or i will make it so. So when it comes to me, it's better if i like you. :p

    Now you're just pissing me off. Stop making sense. :p
    (Don't. It's why i like you :p)

    LMAO

    It is the way of our world. All of it. :)
    People being wrong. People being right. People judging other people and telling them how they should feel or what they should like. That sith is not excusable even if they have the moral highground. And people who do (have the moral high ground) do not judge people who don't. Cuz you know, they are morally superior and above judging leaving that to the Gods? Besides...isn't arrogance a sin in most religions? If it isn't then equating oneself with oneself's Deity surely is....i think I remember a quote from the Bible that goes in the lines of love thy neighbour as you love thyself and leave the judgement to your God. But what do I know...am just an atheist/ex catholic :p
     
  8. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    No, I was being serious when I said that, I really do think she would have liked him!

    Edit
    Wait, I understood you wrong...... So you're saying that it's better that they met the way they did? Him stalking her through the forest and scaring her half to death? I mean women tend to like bad boys, but isn't that taking it a bit too far? Isn't there a difference between challenging and terrifying? lol
    I figured she checked him out because she was surprised he was good looking under the mask, not because he scared her before lol

    Oh I don't use "sick" in a judgemental way, I'd never do that. All I'm saying is his mind is not alright. A sick mind is like a sick body, rarely the fault of the sufferer.

    I agree completely with everything you said here.

    But only occasionally :p

    :D

    Look, it's not my fault I'm brilliant, alright? It's my burden and I've learned to live with it :p

    Yeah I'm not religious either.
     
    #148 Starchaser, Jan 2, 2017
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  9. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    That's just it, ain't it? We don't know why Kylo did it. We can only presume. That he did it to go fully to the dark side cuz he was assured it will be so is certainly one reason. But JJ himself said kylo did not go on that bridge with the intent of killing Han. I don't know all what happened between the two characters in the course of their lifetime. I hope we do get some answers to that. I can imagine however, based on all that I have seen in TFA and based on all I know of Han from OT that Han especially did some sith that made Kylo feel betrayed or hurt or whatever. Enough to make him decide (in his darkened state of mind that he is suffering from at the moment) that pushing a lightsaber through his father's heart is somehow justifiable and his 'revenge' is legitimate, or pardonable if you will? The hell, even Han forgives him for doing it!! Wtf? What happened between those two in the past? And I am not talking sith like abuse, ugh, to even suggest that is bullsith...Kylo doesn’t flinch away from Han on that bridge cuz Han beat him up as a kid (what an idiotic notion)...he flinches cuz what Han is telling him, that Snoke is only using him for his power and that he will crush him when he is done with him. Han is basically telling his son that the Dark Side is not the belonging he seeks and Kylo at that moment knows it to be true...that is why he is ready to surrender, give up the fight and accept his pending demise (no way he would not be executed/punished for his crimes were he to return to Alliance. But it would not even come to that cuz he would be shot to death by surrounding stormtroopers, cuz even if they suck at targetting they would not miss cuz he is a sitting duck out there on that platform)....so at one moment...he accepted his fate...offers the lightsaber in an act of surrender, but then what happens? The star dies. The light is gone. The darkness takes over. And he is back to standing face to face with his father. Remembering that this is the man who hurt him. And now he is saying stuff that makes sense??!! He can not make sense...he betrayed him before...he wants to do so again...cuz people don't change..do they? Can they?! The arrogance of his self-righteousness takes over once again and he ignites that lightsaber. But then Han does one thing that makes him a loving parrent. One that sets example to his child by an act of true love. Love beyond egocentricity and selfishnes...act of selfless love. Forgiving his son for killing him in the moment in which Han, who has always been a very selfish person thinking of himself first very often, and has every right, moral, emmotional, righteous (whichever you want and all of them) to be selfish and selfcentered in this moment, cuz you know, it is the moment of his own death. But Han does what?! He reaches out to his child. Touches his face. Forgives him. Leading by example. Like a loving parent should. That is the thing that will make kylo redeem himself. It must.
    No man is beyond redemption. But he has to wish it. If anything makes him wish it it will be this moment. Not the love of Rey, ugh. But now he is in shock, i think. He needs time to process all that happened with Han. I hope he snaps out of this shock soon and have this be the worst thing he did. Can he? Can men break away from the confinments of their characters that they themselves (and society as well) put up? In real life, highly unlikely. But not impossible. In fairytales? Yes. Regularly...it is what makes a hero, hero. The willingnes to go beyond himself to do grand things that save the world (and get the girl). I hope kylo will make that choice. If he diesn't he deserves to suffer. And I'd be the first to pull the trigger....or better yet...ignite the lightsaber and shove it through his black heart.

    Is Kylo selfish? Ofc he is. Children are selfish. I know this. I am a selfish selfcentered child. Who of us isn't? I am one that has issues with what I believe were selfish and hurtfull actions of one of my parents, my mother. My pride and selfrighteousness made me metaphorically 'ignite that lightsaber' after one thing she said to me that rang true...how dared she, morally inferior person, how dared she make sense?! I don't weild a weapon but I did it with something more powerfull than the sword...with words....that cut straight through her heart. And i know i was wrong. And I know i must seek forgiveness. And I will. But not this day. Someday. When I get off my high horse. I know I will. Cuz I am also a loving parent. And I know how hard it is to be selfless. The world is not black or white. People are not light or dark. They are both. Shades of gray all over. And it's conflicting as hell. And I am a Kylo. And I must be redeemed. I will make it so.

    In retrospect I guess this post is more fitting for redemption thread. But how it connects to Reylo is: there is no Reylo without Rendemption. I haven't met a single Reyloer that wish that. Not a single one.
    But i have met some that want Rey to save Kylo with her love...to hug away his darkness from him...ugh...and yuck...strong men/women save themselves...them are not 'saved'...it is a choice that they make over and over again in a perpetual cycle. And no one can make choices for oneself but oneself. And there is no escaping one's darkness. Only embracing yourself, all of who you are and strive for the best.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2017 ---
    Here you go again. Patronising her.
    I think she can handle herself. So you need to...stop taking her hand Finn :p

    If he turns out to be an irredimable a**hole she will do him in. She showed us all already she can kick his butt. Many times. On any plane. That simple.

    Agreed

    Ofc you do. I make sense :p

    Can't be right all the time. Then there is no more room for challenge and growth. And life without those is boring as hell.

    ;)

    A friendly advice :
    Don't get cocky, kid! Cuz you might end up in a garbage schute, flyboy :p

    Smart man.
     
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  10. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    This is an amazing post :) If I could give it all the positive ratings, I would. Your interpretation of the bridge scene is spot on, I'm sure that was exactly what the actors were trying to convey. You are WISE :) And it's very nice of you to share exactly why you relate to Kylo Ren. What you described is a perfect example of why so many people relate to and love this character. And I'm sure you and your mother will find peace when the time is right. That's all there is to it, finding the right time (or waiting for the right time), but you know that already :)

    This made me laugh out loud, really! :D

    Truth be told, I AM right all the time, but I didn't say it because I didn't want to seem too intimidating. It's just another gift/burden. :cool:

    It's not cockiness, it's honesty :cool:

    Like I said :cool:


    ......:D:p
     
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  11. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    Thank you. People keep saying that to me. Guess it must be true.

    Thank you again. I know we will. The truth shall set you free and all that...Do you mind sharing why do you relate to Kylo Ren? Or is it Rey who you relate to? :D (would explain your bias towards her character, that :p)

    Why? Cuz I'm right? :p

    Ummmm....only when you agree with me, and it's more of a curse than a gift :p :cool:

    What you said makes you sound arrogant...
    ...but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. If it's honesty, then there is true power behind your arrogance: the strength of character...but those are usually proven by deeds, not words. So, allow me another SW quote:
    We shall seeeeeeee.....

    I guess I do like you a lot cuz out of all my discussions/conversations I always find myself answering to you first :p
     
  12. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    i think Ren's behavior is pure self-preservation. that doesn't make it any less cowardly or wrong, but he didn't do it purely for personal gain. he has a goal and he's willing to sacrifice everything for it, but i don't believe that goal is ultimately selfish. nothing in his words or behavior indicate such (particularly in the book where you get a stronger sense that he's motivated by external idealist factors rather than selfish gain).

    he doesn't kill his father easily. he expresses it as something he "has to do" but doesn't want to. even if Snoke promised him strength or power through this act and that was what he expected, it wasn't for him that he desires those things: it's for his perceived mission.

    and again, it doesn't excuse it in the slightest. i just think the distinction makes his redemption more possible.

    really? hahahaha ~ son of Republic heroes, of a Senator with serious influence, likely never suffered a material want in his life, apprenticed to the last Jedi, and has the power to bend things to his will?

    look, i love Ben and i feel like he's been done serious injustice through his family and through Snoke--he's been neglected, used, and corrupted.

    but he is privileged. he is a prince (literally, figuratively). despite deep psychological hurts, he is very spoiled. even in the mere revolting fact of being chosen by Snoke, of being Vader's grandson, of having co-command of a star destroyer without any military training (that we know of--why do you think Hux hates this guy so much?). he's been handed everything. the fact that he's is pain because of it doesn't change that fact.

    and again, i say this as one of his staunchest defenders ~ hahaha

    you're insightful, but i gotta challenge this one too. i posit that Ren is not flinching from Han out of fear of recrimination or recognition of Han's truths.

    he fears Han might touch him, hug him, grab him in some long lost ever-desired affection that he absolutely cannot deal with.
    he needs to be angry/resolute in this moment and he knows if he lets his father touch him, he'll break.
    he flinches because he fears Han's love.
     
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  13. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    There is no proof of this at all and I will forever quote Pablo's interview about this (time stamped):



    "It's not because they are bad parents. Sometimes bad people just happen."
     
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  14. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    in his mind ~ can't believe i have to qualify this. again.
    Ben thinks he's been ill-treated, neglected, unloved, abandoned. that's canon.
    whether it's accurate is irrelevant to how he feels and where it's brought him.

    his family failed to protect him, failed to be honest with him. those things are true.
    i don't blame them for his choices. or vilify them for being imperfect parents.
    i'm just saying these are things that happened.
     
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  15. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    If they are in his mind, as you say, they didn't happen. He is delusional.

    Why is he delusional is another question, but the privilege he grew up with might be the starting point for answering that question.

    Edit:

    Star Wars tumblr just posted this:

    tumblr_oj5se0Im0n1s6w6foo1_500.gif

     
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  16. Dark Cutie

    Dark Cutie Guest

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    You seem to posses that quality that I sometimes regret not having. Emmotional detachment. Good points.


    He so is privileged. Maybe better to say he was privileged. But sometimes being rich does not protect you from lonelyness and detachment. Privileged people are people too.
    When it comes to Snoke choosing him and granting him special position in the hierarchy of FO it was not done so cuz of him being privileged (his princehood), nor cuz of his legacy (Vader grandson)...or at least not solely cuz of his legacy...it was cuz he is special...strong in the Force...stronger than anything we have ever seen a Force user (apart from the Father, the Son and the Daughter if Mortis) has ever done through the Force. Even Luke and Vader only wave their lightsabers around and their hands to mindtrick weak minded. Allthough i gotta give palps due credit for the lightning bolt.

    Besides...do we know his exact rank withinn the FO. I thought KOR were separate from FO?

    Ohhhhh....this is very good. I see it now. But I still maintain that he flinches also from what Han is saying. Cuz of the timing when he did it. He did not flinch at the point when Han was physically closest to him. Also, the verbal exchange during flinching moment implies it.
    But I can see that too. Additional, maybe even primary reason for flinching when he did.
    Thank you for that insight :)
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2017 ---
    You don't have to be a bad parent to have a child that doesn't relate to you and vice versa. Specially if you have a child that has special abilities. I don't know how fair it is to say that if Kylo Ren felt lonelynes and abandonment in his mind that it never really happend. It happened cuz it was real to him. He felt it. Would he be a happier child if he had a stay at home mom? Dunno. But it is a fact that was established in the novels that Leia was busy with her political engagements while Ben was a child?
    And I do not mean to be hard on Han, but we do know from the OT he never really believed in that mumbo jumbo. Is it really that hard to imagine him dismissing it infront of his son the same way he did in the OT. Thus alienating his child in the process? He didn't even have to vocalize it cuz Ben can read minds....Han believes in it in TFA, so something happened to change his mind. The question is when?

    Not everyone is equally sensitive i think. One thing that bothers one person, doesn't have to bother the other. Some people are more sensitive. Force users seem to be more sensitive, which kinda makes sense for them to be receptive of the midichlorians influence enough to manipulate the world around them...and common, they so are more sensitive....just remember all that whinning about sand and converters, duh. :D
     
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  17. Lord Denton

    Lord Denton Rebel Commander

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    Episode VIII is Christmas 2017.
    Episode IX is 2019.
    The Han Solo film is the one in 2018.
     
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  18. Niamor

    Niamor Rebel Official

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    this was posted?

    Official poster:
    1483245280-tumblr-inline-o8wnlaxlhd1qjtxsg-500.jpg

    there's something really "erotic" with this poster:
    1483294665-tumblr-inline-o8w8pia30d1rgz8jq-500.jpg
     
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  19. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    I relate more to Kylo Ren than Rey. It's not something is particular, we all have our struggles :) I only defended her because you made me to :p

    Cuz you're wrong :p

    I know, that's my charm :cool: .........:p

    You're right, as always (Supreme Leader)! :)

    I like talking to you too, it's fun AND very interesting :) That's pretty much what I wanted from this forum :)

    .......Alright, let's leave it at that, I can't get into this debate without getting angry and I'm here to have fun :) It's my mistake for asking, I never learn. Really, I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I do appreciate that you took the time to answer :)
     
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  20. FN-3263827

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    of course he's delusional. but yes, it came from somewhere. being lied to his whole life couldn't have been good for him. especially given his FS. we also have hints that Han didn't deal with that too well. and the fact that Leia hid Snoke from Han is rather telling also. he was already disturbed when Leia sent him to Luke. he didn't just get there as a result of being an ordinary kid.

    it's just speculation right now, but i do think they neglected to take care of his psychological/emotional needs--not because they're awful people, but because he's an unprecedented individual. really, what parents could have dealt with his special needs? that doesn't give him an excuse to become a fanatical space Nazi, but it likely is part of the cause. he couldn't find his place with his own family, so he went looking elsewhere.

    this is why to me it's still a tragedy. yes, he's a spoiled brat on some levels, but his pain is still real.

    and that's a privilege too. and a curse perhaps, but still a gift foremost.


    the KoR aren't ranked, but he is Snoke's apprentice (and as such at his right-hand). he also does specifically hold the rank of co-commander in the FO. again, i'm guessing that's part of why Hux hates him.

    i guess i don't see him flinching as a result of Han's words. i see him flinching because actually this is the point at which Han most aggressively moves into his physical space. his body is reacting to the threat of his closeness. Han does then move still closer after (after he says it's too late), but the reaction comes at the point at which Han is close enough to touch him for the first time.

    i think there's some evidence so far to support that Leia was busy and Han was put off by Ben's FS. there's also evidence to argue that Ben was maybe a weird kid and too introverted for his own good. either way it's clear that the family was dysfunctional--not necessarily on any worse level than any other family, but again, Ben seems to have had some particularly special needs. he was also being targeted by Snoke (we don't know how yet), and again, i submit that a lot of Ren Ben's resentment comes from the fact of not being protected.

    i'm one of Ben's biggest defenders on this board, so i understand about getting angry when people put him down.

    but i also think it's important to see him as a whole person, warts and all.

    the fact that i think he's privileged doesn't change the fact that i also think he needs help, that he's suffering, and that Snoke is a fishy-eyed toilet monster who should have his skinny little neck wrung like a chicken.
     
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