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REYLO - Potential Evidence For & Against

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Moral Hazard, Nov 1, 2016.

  1. jamatru

    jamatru 1030th Ambassador
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    Totally different circumstances. That was father and son. And I wouldn't characterize them as being "good pals." :)
     
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  2. FN-3263827

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    what about that Father and Son barbeque they had at the end of....oh...nevermind. [snert]

    pyre.gif
     
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  3. jamatru

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    Lol! Love it! :)
     
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  4. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I don't see where is the difference.
     
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  5. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    Rey has already been tempted by the Darkside. She already knows how easily it took over her and controlled her actions.
    It IS obvious in the movie (although some people still refuse to believe it) that in the snow duel when she strikes down fallen Kylo who is without his weapon is a big dark side moment for Rey. (It also is explicitly confirmed in the novelization as well.)

    The newest #6 of the TFA Marvel comics even shows Rey with amber "sith" eyes. If the ground did not collapse and there was a chasm formed at that moment she would have used the dark side to kill him and her path to the dark side would have began...

    tumblr_oghp2j6XHK1v2ihz0o2_250.jpg
    18.jpg

    It is not far fetched to imagine that with this and maybe future experiences with the Force (and in particular the Darkside) she will find a lot of common ground between herself and Ben Solo and will find empathy for what has happened to him. Because she will understand how vulnerable one is to the Darkside and that even if one is not inherently evil they can still do evil actions under the influence of the Darkside.

    Yes, killing Han was an irreversible deed, but it simply doesn't mean that Ben Solo cannot change and transform and that this deed that we already know he most probably regretted immediately will/should forever influence his destiny. So even Han Solo's murderer has a chance to change and to be given a chance. That's simply what SW essentially stands for.

    Whether there will be romance of course is not clear at this point, but is there a potential for it, absolutely. One very important reason for why there might be a potential romance set up are the visual clues - the bridal carry, the gentle way he talks to her, the absolute awe/admiration with which Kylo/Ben looks at Rey, but not incidentally (which was confirmed by JJ in the TFA commentary), they deliberately made Adam Driver to look like a prince. They could have made him just look normal, but no, he had to look like a prince when Rey sees him for the first time. That is not set up randomly and many picked up on that, mainly women did, which is telling. The end game may not be a romance, but someone deliberately and purposely made a certain portion of the audience start thinking and speculating there might be, so there's that.

    One may not see it at this point and of course it is deliberately ambiguous, and at this point there certainly is NO SUCH relationship present at present, but one thing's for sure, these two will have a very interesting relationship going forth. (Also lines up with what JJ said in the TFA commentary).
     
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  6. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Cool. I've heard theories Rey absorbed/utilised some of Kylo's anger and hate during their duel bonding that may account for her successful retaliation although she has shown some natural aggression. Perhaps the TFA or young person's novel touches on it further?

    She seemed back to her usual self after the chasm. Some people think she demonstrates some concern/compassion/regret for leaving Kylo for dead when she does the classic cinema "look back" before entering the Falcon.

    Rey looks back.gif
    I didn't get it either hence the thread attempting to catalogue the reasoning (see first post if you can stomach the length:rolleyes:).

    I haven't actually found anyone who ships this romance without presuming massive character changes like a heel-face turn for Kylo or circumstances that require further bonding. Despite this the current hero/villain dynamic stubbornly persists as the most oft repeated critique of the ship - although understandably so!

    senkkei tumblr pic.png

    As to the why... I've noticed a couple of camps involved in the Reylo ship:
    A (small) group of serious SW romance enthusiasts who project their personal fantasies onto the attractive and prominent characters. These include some inspired enough to create fan-fiction that explores in depth (what I'm guessing they see as) a possible complex and interesting future relationship.

    Another (much larger) group just seem to foresee/desire hero/villain restitution like Vader/Luke. They see “inspiring evil to pursue good” as a major SW theme and may perceive Kylo's villainous crush as a possible stimulus for this restitution. Perhaps they see romance over friendship because of SW space opera status? I guess I shouldn't be answering for them!!

    Some of these shippers seem to use confirmation bias to serve their theory. Others see some naunced and perhaps reasonable patterns in the visual storytelling, subtext, and common movie tropes utilised throughout TFA that may portend something.
     
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  7. FN-3263827

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    oh unfortunately they're out there, muddying the dialogue ~ hahahaha

    mostly they seem to be proponents of Dark Rey who see the pair as Sithily ruling the galaxy together (heterosexual variation on the Kylux ship?)

    to each their own fantasies, but yeah, that's never going to happen. : o p
     
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  8. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    im ok with this.png
     
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  9. Pomojema

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    The entire point of the Prequel Trilogy was to show that the Jedi Order, as it existed at that point, had lost sight of what it was supposed to be. (The Jedi Order turning into a bunch of warriors is also demonstrative of this point, but it's not what causes their downfall.) They were too focused on being dogmatic over their spirituality instead of embracing the magical nature of their religion. It's why Midi-Chlorians testing exists - it's a dull, soulless way of showing that the Jedi at that time chose to quantify the Force instead of accepting the fact that it's an all-encompassing energy field that a select few can actively influence.

    An example of this dogmatism is that the Jedi Order trained its followers to be a bunch of stoic, uncaring snobs that sneered at the thought of attachment. Yes, attachment is what turned Anakin evil. But it is exactly what saves Luke and Anakin both at the end of ROTJ. Anakin became evil because he feared what would happen if he told the Jedi Order about his love affair - and if they had been accepting of that from the beginning, then he never would have turned to the Dark Side. And presumably, the Force Spirits would have told Luke to learn from this mistake when he tried his hand at leading a new a generation of Jedi, which is why I think the assertion that the new generation of Jedi would learn nothing from their immediate, nigh-extinct predecessors is ridiculous.
    Right, I get that that's what will happen in a best-case scenario - and from what I can understand from the lore, Han didn't bear any anger toward his son even as he had been impaled (as symbolized by his gesture to touch his son's face). Leia having to confront what her son did in the same way that Luke had to confront what his father did is going to be a part of her story arc, just as coming to terms with what Darth Vader did will be a part of that in turn. And since Luke had a similar experience with his nephew as Leia did with their father, I can see him forgiving Ben eventually, even if that will be a painful thing for him to do.

    But I still don't think that Rey would suddenly just turn around and say "Welp, you're good now. Let's have a baby!" She is very clearly disgusted with Ben and wanted to kill him even before he murdered Han. Obviously, that's going to change over the course of these movies, but I don't see how the two falling in love could reasonably happen in any scenario.
     
    #69 Pomojema, Nov 13, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2016
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  10. Winterstar

    Winterstar Clone Commander

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    To understand Kylo you have to know why he killed Han... there is a hint of this in the commentary .... John. B already said there would be a romance and its not Rey and Finn and it may not go the way you expect it to ... they are dropping hints ,, JJ has , Daisy has and John B. has to try to prepare the audience. Before you move to the romance you need to know why he killed Han
    --- Double Post Merged, Nov 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Nov 13, 2016 ---
    Do we know the character yet ? he is mostly still hidden from us in many ways... first you have to know why he killed han...
     
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  11. Pomojema

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    Because he was emotionally conflicted. The commentary confirms that he was considering Han's words about going back with him, but because he was so ingrained in the path he chose to follow, he killed his father - which is also something he clearly regrets, and it's one of two reasons why he lost his fight against Finn and Rey (the other one being the fact that he was wounded).

    I'm guessing that Finn will end up with Kelly Marie Tran's character for whatever reason, or something along those lines. But that doesn't mean that Reylo is a surefire thing, and I certainly hope it isn't.
     
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  12. Obi-Wan Solo

    Obi-Wan Solo Force Sensitive

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    (Let me go ahead and put my tinfoil hat on.)

    As far as I know there is nothing in the novelizations that confirms that Rey's anger and aggression have anything to do with her absorbing it from Kylo.

    There is the TFA Lego game though that has an interesting explicit dialogue where Kylo urges her on to use her anger and strike at him. Here:



    It is though, highly debatable how canonical the Lego game is at all, even if it's voiced by the actual actors themselves...

    In the Lego game he also tells her that she can rule the galaxy and command armies. He doesn't say with him, but one can imagine that Lego Kylo probably thinks in these lines...;) And as to ruling the galaxy together the official SW Facebook page reportedly has had this post several months ago:

    [​IMG]

    But who knows, he might offer her to rule the galaxy together as siblings (very improbable at this point), as cousins (a bit strange) or as lovers (exactly just as Grandpa Anakin offered to grandma Padme on Mustafar).

    I'm not saying I personally take any stock in all that necessarily, but it does exist.
    ---

    Here is what the TFA storybook says about Rey's looking back. (In it, she looks back before Chewie shows up.) In the movie she looks back before getting on the Falcon. In either case, she looks back for Kylo.

    tumblr_o7jb5ioM7U1qkbiaio2_1280.jpg
    tumblr_o7jb5ioM7U1qkbiaio1_1280.jpg

    Whether she looks back out of compassion/concern is of course debatable. But, it is I think evident that she is very conflicted about him as it is.
    A valid explanation easily could be that she might just be looking back to see if the guy she wanted to kill will survive and possibly be a threat again.

    (I have half-joked before that her slicing his face was on purpose as she was angry with herself for being attracted to and liking it earlier.)

    One thing I think we can be sure of is, that when Rey looked into Kylo's mind, she saw more than just his one fear of not being as strong as grandpa. How much and what she saw in his mind is yet to be determined and I think, we can speculate, will most probably be formative as to how Rey will feel about him going forth...That, and the new information Luke will most probably give her about his nephew and the story of what went down.
    Whatever its nature, the relationship they already have is not entirely black and white and going forward a lot of further development will surely happen.
     
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  13. Bandini

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    Anakin always lived in fear, the fear to lose his mother, Padme, Ahsoka, the fear to fail and I don't see why the jedis were supposed to change the rules to please Anakin because he was a liar and a coward and moreover a cold blood killer.
     
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  14. Rogues1138

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    I was figuring out a way to articulate this... well said!
     
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  15. FN-3263827

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    yep: whether it's meant to be a subtle ploy in expectation management or they're trying to play bait and switch, the merchandising and other promotion feels like it has been gently pressing its own quiet little agenda.

    you and i seem to see kinda eye to eye on most things in this thread ~ why'd you give me a clouded rating?
    i'm just curious because my post was so neutral. not sure what i said to give pause or offense.
     
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  16. Pomojema

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    And you just missed entire the point of Anakin's character. Yes, he messed up quite significantly on his fall from grace. But the story itself shows that he wasn't entirely wrong to distrust the Jedi Order (who were losing sight of what they were supposed to be, becoming far more "Order" than "Jedi" by means of effectively serving as a state institution over a philosophy and religion) or to want to keep his family safe - it's just that Palpatine was able to exploit those fears in such a way that everybody suffered in the end. And none of that would have happened if the Jedi hadn't taken such a holier-than-thou stance on something as simple as basic human attachment - which, again, is shown to be what redeems Anakin years later.

    Also, I'd like to point out how weird it is to hold a "Kylo Ren did nothing wrong" position in conjunction with a "Anakin Skywalker was a cowardly, murderous liar" position - they seem kind of contradictory to one another.
     
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  17. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    As long as there is no similar role in the ST like the embarrassing little priest, I am fine with that :).
    ..and the last sentence of Rey should not be:"..oh your hands are cold..".
     
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  18. JV-24601

    JV-24601 Rebel Official

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    This. The Jedi were not blameless in their own fall. The Council's actions wrt stuff like faking Obi-wan's death, throwing Ahsoka under the bus, and betraying their own teachings by sending Quinlan and Asajj to assassinate Dooku despite the Jedi Code forbidding intentional killing, regardless of the harm Dooku was doing to the galaxy, was a major blow to Anakin's trust in them. He had every reason to distrust them. It's easy to believe that Anakin, who was always a little messed up in the head and in a bad mood wrt the Order, could be swayed to a cynical view of the Jedi by Palpatine.

    The LEGO depiction of the fight is really intriguing. At the beginning, Kylo says "It is you" to Rey, as if she has confirmed her identity to her. I don't think the LEGO games are strictly canon, but I would be shocked if the Story Group let TellTale write original dialogue for the game without permission. It confirms that Kylo knows or suspects Rey's identity. But who, precisely, is she?
     
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  19. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    it's not original dialogue, it comes from the script/novel. God help me for summonsing Hidalgo, but he suggests (for whatever it's worth) that Ren's referring to the awakening. this makes sense within context of the scene and Ren's behavior throughout the book as he puzzles through making the connection between "the girl" and "the awakening". other people may have other interpretations, but frankly, this is probably the one that makes the most sense.
     
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  20. oldbert

    oldbert Guardian of Coffee Breaks

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    I have my troubles with black and white judgements for both the grandfather and his grandson. Both of them have not been born evil. They both made their wrong decisions not without reasons. When someone would try to harm my family I would do what I would have to do. If someone at the worst time of my life (the teens)would have tried to destroy my picture of my most beloved grandfather I would have turned away from him and I would have trusted someone with the opposite opinion instead. What I try to explain is, I cannot understand phrases like "never forget or forgive" or "kill the jerk" or "whiny/emo blabla". Talking like this seems not very mature and less wise.
    Simple answers or judgements are often not that accurate if we risk a deeper look inside..
     
    #80 oldbert, Nov 13, 2016
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