THREAD FOR THOSE WHO HATED THE MOVIE

You're shifting the goalposts. No one is disputing how you feel about the Force Download element of canon. It was a response to your assumption that it wasn't valid since it wasn't in the films.

Your literal quote was:

And by the way, there's nothing facetious or misrepresenting about using the term "Force Download." That's precisely what it was. Rey literally inherited techniques, knowledge, and combat prowess from Kylo's mind by way of a mental Force connection. The only reason that term comes off as absurd is because the concept in and of itself is absurd. No one is exaggerating or misrepresenting the writing by describing it as such.

And the reason people take issue with it is...you know what? @Sparafucile already detailed extensively why this is a problem, and I'm certainly not going to parrot points he already made perfectly clear the first time.

 

I don't think most of us on here didn't want to hate on TLJ. It's not like it was premeditated dislike. The story was just awful scrappy at best. I am having more problems with what came afterwards. Then again RJ interviews were troubling in the build up and then got more out of hand afterwards. For me personally anyway they didn't help. Am struggling to find anything to nibble on. Am full of love for star wars even right now as I post this. I don't wish to upset people but my god having a dislike for this film is painful and stressful. Especially when all you want is the best.

 

I like your post but it's filled with broad strokes and assumptions. However I do accept that there are "groups" of people who have such views, it is however certainly only a small amount of the "haters" who share some of the issues you mention.

I like your take on Rey, but that can go any way. It really depends what JJ wants to do with it in the last installment. She can fall in love with anyone with enough of a time gap and a throwaway line. Maybe a Rey Rose coupling. I don't know if the force chooses on your qualities as a person (see Sidious) or if it's just random. My guess is just random, but who knows.

I loved Finn after TFA. After TLJ I don't care what happens to him anymore. They spend too much time laughing at him being a janitor to take seriously. It worked okay in TFA, but they can't just keep doubling down on that same joke imo. It demeans the character and his gravitas.

I like and mostly agree with your take on Kylo. I just don't find him intimidating as the big bad. If I were JJ, I'd open up with Kylo doing something truly powerful and nasty to start IX. This story needs a true villain.

As stated by others, I doubt many of us here want SW to fail. For myself, I just want this story to end. Not all SW, but the saga with these particular characters. Move forward move back or sideways in time or location. Somewhere people haven't heard about this or that it's old news and not talked about. Give us something fresh with all new characters and no legacy characters to propel other characters and tease the audience with.

 

I was very clearly talking about the novelisation not to appear I was disrespecting information there you felt it was important. I never said “it was not valid”. I only stated what I stated “it wasn’t in the films.” Which is true and therefore “I do not worry about it’s presence “spoiling” the film (even though it really doesn’t has the potential to do so IMHO)

 

Well, first off, it's not info I found important---it's info the person you were responding to brought up. Second, I don't buy a word of what you said about you not worrying about its presence spoiling the film, because the moment people on this thread began to mention that the moment people were using it as canon proof of the film's faults, you backed up and began defending it with "the authors are explaining the process of learning the ways of the force during mind connections... It seems pretty natural to me."
But lastly, you were recommending someone not base their perception of the film based on canon information. What is that, if not the implication that the information is either not of value or not relevant to the conversation? What else does "I wouldn't base your hypothesis on that, it wasn't in the movie" mean?

Which, by the way, makes no sense. The novel is based on Rian's script and released as official canon material, the "Expanded Edition." Until it's explicitly contradicted by Episode 9, it's absolutely relevant to the discussion.

Especially given how aggressively the pro-TLJ camp uses the novel as some kind of defense shield for the movie's flaws.

 

Read those novelisation passages again. In them it is very clear that the knowledge Rey acquired was not “downloaded”, understood as a sudden downpour of data on her brain. This knowledge was not actually described as “inherited” either. It was in fact an awakening, a realisation, a moment of clarity ( the picture of doors opening is rather evocative). You may not see the difference or not find it relevant and continue thinking it was a blatant “download”, but THAT is not what the text is saying. There is a huge difference to me and perhaps to others. I value spreading accurate information.

You may buy whatever you want to buy. I was simply indulging this perception of canon as something important. It is not to me. Consistency is. About this “force download” in particular, if i discuss it is because I find spreading wrong information damaging. This “force download” idea is not a fact based on evidence. It’s empty rhetoric.

I was just recommending someone not to be unduly pessimistic about the outcome of 9 based on a fringe aspect of the novelisation of TLJ.

Discuss all you want. I did not try to quieten anyone, as I already explained. I was merely expressing my humble opinion which is that, as far as I am concerned, Rey acquiring force poweres through Kylo during their force connections is too inconsequential to “spoil” 9.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 11, 2018 ---

I would be very interested in reading your take on this if you kindly direct me to the post (number) where you spoke about it.

 

I have many issues with the use of Force knowledge transfers or downloads or whatever you want to call it. I've touched upon it in the past, others have written about it more extensively than I have, and I do not find it difficult to see how big of a can of worms introducing this technique to the SW universe can be. To me it's problematic on many different levels.

Rey is depicted as good throughout the series, and unless IX decides to backtrack on that, it presents a problem in continuity from prior SW canon. ie: the quick and easy path leads to the dark side. Force knowledge transference is the quickest and easiest path we've ever been introduced to in the SW universe. So far we've not seen any negative effect on Rey, and quite possibly there is something in store in IX or in the future. That said, just like someone acquiring wealth too quickly, it's bound to cause major blunders due to the wealth not being earned. She moves from being barely aware she has this power, to not only being powerful in the force, but knowledgeable in its uses. Without a negative effect to this, it seems cheap from both a writing perspective and a story telling perspective. Maybe IX will clear that up, but I doubt it.

Then there's the Pandora's box aspect of it. If it can be done once, it can be repeated. It's also hard to imagine for thousands of years this technique was never discovered. Even forgetting that last part, moving forward, just like the Hyperspace jump attack, force users can just keep downloading or opening those doors without the student having to put any time or effort into it. In this way it cheapens the force. It lessens characters because now they become much more about the power they wield then the personality they have. By extension, Force wielders can not become more powerful than any Force user in history, because they don't have to essentially go to school for years to learn, they get one quick experience then can build from Yoda caliber to something greater than Yoda, then imbue that into the next phenom that comes along.

It seems very much like the writers simply refused to have Rey have to progress and learn in any way. I personally find that lessens her as a character. I'm not entirely certain if this is intentional or incidental. Once again some of this will depend greatly on IX and future installments. I don't have a whole lot of faith in this writing group just because it does open up to making a farce of the force within the universe. I can't help but feel it was simply a tool to have her "powered up" artificially, mostly because it hasn't even been mentioned. We don't see her discussing this with Luke, or Luke with Yoda ect. Even Kylo and Rey don't talk about it. It's simply forgotten, thus just a means to an end by the writers to get Rey from point A to point Z without doing any of the heavy lifting other Jedi's and Force users have done.

Moving forward, I think it will make the stories less satisfying. I know I'll always wonder "why don't they just open those doors for their student?" whenever they struggle. The struggle is part of the lesson. It becomes part of why and how they respect the power they wield. It's a story of a voyage where they leave from the harbor to arrive at the destination 20 feet away. It lessens everything about her and this story and stories moving forward by having this short cut to power. Before, there were barriers so things didn't get too over powered. The ST seems to be trying its best to shed all those speed bumps and impediments. Making everything easier all the time. It's not natural, that's not how life works.

Mixed in with all this, the force now being available to everyone, not just bloodlines , I don't know why it wouldn't be possible for some Force sensitive to do this to non-force users, possibly even awake others since the force is now in everything. It's like having a fantasy world where everyone is a wizard, and not only can everyone wield magic, they can all wield it to the same extent. I don't know about you, but I find that boring.

My fear about this is that it will be cool for a movie or two, but will ultimately change the SW universe. Oh, I'm sure they'll try to put the stopper back on the bottle like they did with the Hyperspace attack, but it's too late just by introducing it. The truth of the matter is, unless this holds some huge significance in the story in EPIX, it wasn't at all necessary, just like the Hyper drive attack or Yoda using lightning. There were other means or explanations that could have worked far better. The only cap or stopper for this bottle now is making the consequence for using this technique so dire in IX that no force user will ever dare use it again. But it has to hurt everyone involved, because if it profits even just one person, it should be used consistently when the opportunity presents itself.

Examples of that is if Rey is all powerful, obviously she should use it on others. If it kills Rey in IX or turns her dark, sith should use this all the time to turn others ect...

Had this been the first installment in SW, I would simply accept that this is the world they live in. But SW has a history that this contradicts. Anyways, I could go on and on, but the gist of my point is in there.

 

The main reason I did such broad strokes is that they are still missing some character definition. With changing directors in the middle I think some key points got changed. It really makes me wonder if JJ and RJ worked together on this what would have been different.

The point I am trying to make with Rey I don't care if she falls in love. My interest is where a the Jedi going from here. So all the rest is just filler. I am totally not trying to under play her. I think her receiving Luke's first lightsaber he made as a Jedi was supposed to be the hand off for the new Jedi. They are changing, Yoda said it. That's why I hope she isn't Luke daughter.

I agree Finn got thrown on the back burner on this one. He should be back as a main. He is funny okay we all know that but we want him kicking ass again. So you are totally right.

Kylo is emo Anakin. I also want him to come out a do something or hand it over to Hux. He is made at mom and dad throwing a tantrum. Which is not enough to keep any of interested in him for long. Vader blown a up a planet in like ten minutes, kidnapped a princess and was just a general force of intimidation. There was no doubt of who was the biggest bad in the room. With Kylo if you say something to him he may kill you or run away crying. Anakin at least killed the younglings.

It is time for the end of the Skywalkers, I got your back on that one. There is so much in this universe that can be expanded upon. Between the last couple movies, directors changes and a focus on humor we haven't got what we excepted. I will still watch them and I will like something and hate others. As fans I am not sure if our expectations are to high, some of us are pretty damn hardcore. We have 40 years of building our own stories and idea building for this. Or we have 40 years to see how the saga of the Skywalkers end and disappointed in it. I am really not sure at this point and it is okay either way.

I think I post in here because it is more toxic then some of the other threads. It can devolve quickly here. Which means people are deeply passionate about their views and that's why I am here. That fire is what make us fun. I love to talk to everyone give me anything that you have deep connection to and I will listen through the eyes of a child. We sometimes just go a little to far with the berating of our brothers and sisters here. We are all on the same side here.
We want space ninja and murder bears.

 

I said this a while ago, an heroine begging someone else - and more precisely not one, but two broken men - to show her
her place in a story that is supposed to be hers... to me was... disappointing at best.
Maybe that is because I don't remeber a male hero put in the same position.

And not: we're not talking about Obi Wan trying to push Luke... not only Obi Wan says "the choice is yours".
But even before that, we know that Luke had dreams (he wantes to become a pilot, etc..)
and that he didn't like the Empire prior the meeting with Obi Wan.

Rey doesn't have any "personal" agenda, purpose or dream. At all.
Leia had it.
Padme had it too. We may say and think whatever about that character, but we first meet her when she was... not only a queen, but
and elected queen.
Meaning, not only or not just that she was "cool" and strong young lady etc... but that she cared about something. So did Leia.
Rey?

Leia asked her to do something.
Ok. But why does she agree?
And beside that, after 2 movies it still looks like almost everything she does, she does because that's someone else problem or idea.
Cool once. I mean, saving/helping Leia was what moved Luke at first... but he found (quite rapidly) his own motivations.
His own reasons, his own.. path.

I would have love to see more of this with Rey too.
That is why, the problem with Rey Unrelated, is not that she's unrelated - for me - but that building the second movie too
about this issue was... pointless.
From this pov, I don't see any big difference between how TFA ended and how TLJ ended.
It's a reboot, to me.
And a colossal wast of screen time.

That said, about the "girl power plot" ... I tried to use a paradox. Just to give a vague and ironic instance...
But... male heroes are not a problem of mine.
It's a problem of TLJ.

There's not any heroic gesture made by a man in that movie, that doesn't end up being... castrated.

However, just because I don't have any problem with strong women and heroic men, I don't see why one thing has
to exclude the other. I really don't.

And I still think that Leia could have been used better than Holdo to challenge Poe. And Finn too.

But Poe's arc and the Resistance arc... it's a mess, imo.
Starting from the purpose: the successor of Leia within the Resistence/Rebellion - if the point was making him that - doens't
have to be a military leader. Sure he may/has to be that too.

And perhaps Poe - a 34 years old, commander of your dam fleet - already was (and he should have learned some lessons well before.
My guess, it's that the character needed to become.. a politician too.
Just my cents.

 

Fist of all, thank you for explaining this. I understand what the problem you have with this more clearly. This is what I have to say about it.

To me the power Rey has is taking its toll. Inside the tree, she admitted to Luke in a beautifully acted (and written) scene, that this something inside her is awake and she doesn’t know what it is or what to do with it. It’s obvious that it scares and worries her. Remember too the castle visions in TFA. Rey was then terrified about what was happening to her. This is a negative outcome, in the emotional sense. This girl, strong, resolute, practical is confronted by something much bigger than her and she’s finding it hard to handle it.


Things are happening fast, doors are opening in her mind but she is not really prepared to walk into these new spaces. She is overwhelmed.

Is it so hard so accept that in a legendary saga like this, in which force powers, traditions and legends spread over generations, things can be unprecedented? Unprecedented or forgotten (like the bank of knowledge lost in the library in Alexandria in 48BC). Unprecedented like Anakin conceived fatherless, forgotten like the Jedi are to Han and Luke.

But Rey is having struggles too. She has skill and determination but she lacks wisdom. Her journey is not finished. She hasn’t been able to conquer her enemy, Kylo. She will have to find a way in the force to do so.


You see, I think that the way in which Rey is finding her Jedi feet, or her “light” force user self, is different than Luke or Anakin did in the previous trilogies. The writers seem to have decided that, instead of having scenes in which the force is explained or exposed to her (and the audience), we have Rey learning as she goes on and the plot moves forward. This way the new films feel different from the OT and the exposition more dynamic. Instead of having someone explaining to Rey that mind tricks work in the weak minded, we have Rey performing a mind trick on a weak minded after she discovers her mind reading prowess in the interrogation scene. Instead of having Rey being a reluctant and sceptic student like Luke she’s quite the opposite, an eager student who has to make do with what she’s got: her ability and Anakin’s saber.

These examples don’t really have much to do with learning the force ways from someone else’s mind, however I think it’s interesting pointing something out: Just because anyone has the potential to access the force it doesn’t mean everyone will. Like with any talent, music for example, some people are prodigies, some people are fairly talented, some have a feel for it and work hard to achieve a certain level, others are tone deaf. This talent can run in the blood or be born spontaneously. There is a beauty in that I think.


Yoda lighting trees and the hyperdrive attack were so cool I care little about the problematic issues they bring with them, but I just don’t care. I can live with it.

 

Rey is incredibly independent, resourceful and self-sufficient, but with the force she has more than she can handle. It's a power within her she cannot understand and it scares her. She asks help from the only two force users she knows. They happen to be men. And yes, they are broken. Also it did not escape my notice they were also fairly useless. Luke at least redeemed himself in the end... But really, what I would personally prefer in Hollywood films is, rather than a heroine who does not ask for help, more heroes who ask for help and are vulnerable and scared...
As for Rey not having ambition or goals... Well, she's a scavenger on survival mode when we find her in Yakku. She's the bottom of the chain, poor, alone and abandoned. She has nothing, but she has dreams, in spite of it all, and resilience and patience. She builds herself a home from scraps, establishes a routine with ticks on the wall, has enough appreciation for the world around her and its beauty, keeping desert flowers in vases, has affiliations, with her rebel helmet she wears in her down time. She knows how to stand up to bullies, how to take care of the oppressed (Teedo and BB8 or Simon Peggs character and BB8), how to handle herself in a fight. Her personal agenda when we meet her is to survive, to keep living until her parents come to get her. She is an strong young lady, but yes, she is not whole. She is missing love and companionship in her life.

So when Finn shows up, when Leia asks for her help, she feels needed, wanted. This is the story of an orphan with very little, not of a princess or a queen. Her empowerment is not in her goals but in her qualities. She hasn't had the opportunity until now to create a future for herself.

 

I have very little issue accepting unprecedented events within sci-fi or fantasy. Often that event drives the story and that is what brings intrigue. The problem I find with the ST is that unprecedented events are coming in all directions, which devalues them. Lets take a look at unprecedented events so far in the ST.

Star Killer Base, similar to the DS, but far more powerful. It works okay within universe if you don't think too hard about it. It's acceptable and is the big bad of TFA, and in that way it gets its reverence and respect that is due. For me it gets a pass, but it could have gotten a little more thought poured into it to make it even better.

Force Awakening. Similar to Chosen one, but that in itself was unprecedented and believed to be one of a kind, so this is believed to be different and unique in its own right. I think it was done well enough in TFA and has great potential going into TLJ, which swept away its importance by burying it in other unprecedented events that it also doesn't show reverence for. It's like the writers are not taking the story or their own ideas seriously, so why should I? I'll give it a pass for now, because I suspect JJ will bring it back to the fore in IX and give it the respect and importance it deserves. But it's final grade is pending on what JJ does with it in IX.

Force download. Unprecedented. Potential to alter the SW universe as we know it is huge. I like the SW universe as it is, I don't necessarily want to see it morph into something vastly different. If you want something different, create a new sci-fi/sci-fantasy property. Don't mess with something that is already established and accepted. It was introduced early enough that it should have gotten more of a mention than it has gotten (which is zero onscreen, which in itself is blasphemy lol). Which is why I feel it was more a cheap plot device and the writers did not contemplate the world changing properties it could have on their universe, and thus won't be used to its fullest potential. In other words, a whole trilogy could be based along this idea alone, done right, but the writers devalued it and wasted its potential, as now it's new shine is gone and the stories that could have come from it won't have the same impact. Instead they used it to cheaply explain away Rey's skill. Honestly, they should have just said the knowledge came along with the Force Awakening, it would have been far easier to control moving forward and had much less potential to alter the SW universe moving forward. It was not well thought out at all imo, and therefor it gets a fail (this is obviously all imo).

Force Skype. I don't have a huge issue with this other than it's purpose... to gain sympathy for Kylo. To me, that whole plot was kind of useless when you consider how TLJ ends. Beyond that, technology can do much of what that particular power does. I think this power had potential to be far more important to a trilogy than the writers cared to see. The failure to see it as more than a mere tool to drive a dead end sub story shows disrespect for its power and potential. Overall a fail, but not a major one.

Force Projection. No huge issue with this (other than I would have preferred seen Luke there in the flesh) as the power is given a certain amount of respect and reverence, as every new unprecedented power should. It came on near the end so maybe we'll hear more about it at some point in IX. The power has a great cost, so I don't see this one being abused like Force download. I give it a pass.

Hyperspace attack. I find this was largely lost in the plot. It did little to stop the enemy despite the destructive power it displayed. It happened and was quickly forgotten and wasn't even mentioned afterward. To me this is the perfect example of an unprecedented event used badly. The potential to change military strategy within the SW universe is pretty big. I'm not big on analyzing military strategy in sci-fi or fantasy, but the fact that one ship can take out a fleet does beg the question as to why it isn't used more. The cost seems worth it on the surface. So I think this lacked a lot of thought on the part of the writers. This could have driven a very interesting story in and of itself. Instead it's relegated to pretty lights and an excuse to show off some great special effects. That's fine and all, but it would have been far better utilized to have those pretty special effects, and the same gravitas on the story that is being told. I give it a fail for lost potential, as well as universe altering potential that seems not fully thought out.

FG Yoda lightning. See above. A grand power that was first, not necessary, and second opens a can of worms. It's not given a mention later, but that makes sense since only Luke saw it, but still, if as a writer you're going to introduce something world changing like this, it needs a pedestal in story for the audience to admire it from. Maybe it's a precursor to Luke and his potential in IX, so I guess the jury is still out on this one, but judging by prior behavior from the writers, I have my doubts it will be given its proper place. It also has the potential to change many story lines present, past and future. That alone should have made the writers hesitate before introducing it. I give it a fail for now, but as I said earlier, this one has potential to be revisited so that could change after IX, if the writers actually take the time to explore its limits.

There may be more, but these are the more obvious ones. I don't have an issue with most of these, but I think when something unprecedented is introduced, it should be shown onscreen the importance and significance of that event. Right now they are coming so fast, they barely get an afterthought. People just go"wow" and move along with their lives. Sometimes they don't even get a "wow".

Unless the unprecedented events are somehow linked, I think it works best within the story to make them come slower and give them their own story, because in some ways, these unprecedented events are almost characters in their own right. They drive the story, but when it's lost in the confusion, it's a Captain Phasma (wasted character) that had great potential but never meets that potential due to the lack of imagination from the writers to incorporate it within the story.

Edit: By introducing so many "new" discoveries all the time, I find the SW universe is losing some of its lived in characteristics that GL tried so hard to incorporate in his movies. I can see steps, even leaps being made here and there, but they should be given more gravitas imo, and should be more intimately tied to the plot. TLJ's introduction to these new powers seems to be haphazard and chaotic, they seem to be introducing them without a plan or a thought of where to take them from here.

 

It definitely takes a little thicker skin to debate in here. Also, you can't be too worried about what others rate your posts because feathers get ruffled pretty easily and you can get some yellow or red in no time. All that said, I like reading other people's opinions and takes on things. You don't get the nitty gritty unless you pry a little. I like having those conversations and having a relatively more safe zone to critique TLJ without needlessly causing more sensitive fans stress.

 

I don’t know... It all depends, I suppose, on how all this new stuff lands with us. Maybe the issue is that, apart from the films, mainly the OT, I know very little about the SW universe and canon. In the ST I have accepted all the new stuff you just mentioned hardly noticing it was new until someone here pointed it out lol. What makes me think that, although it is new, it kinda makes sense within the world, but I accept this is perhaps just me


I accepted Rey’s awakening as something possible in SW. After all, I was only acquainted with Luke, a student with family potential who is told to find this power within him, and Anakin, a child prodigy discovered by the Jedi order. I know very little about other jedis or force sensitives in the galaxy discovering their power... as far as I was concerned some found it out of interest for the force and the Jedi religion, and other achieve it by determination and will power and others perhaps found it in the Rey way... I accepted that was the way it happened. In fact I never gave this too much thought, not until someone complained about it! As for her force power acquisition (sorry, I dislike the term “download” in this context as explained before) I did not see it in the film and care little about it and its relevance.


SKB made sense to me as it fitted with the destructive idea of bombing planets with loads of people as it happened with the DS. I actually liked SKB because it perfectly reflected this bonkers world of SW. It was familiar, creepier, stronger. SKB grounder TFA in the SW of the OT, the one i love.


The force connections made sense. They did not feel contrived to me as they fitted this force telepathic idea we have seen in all films. Kylo is surprised about it happening what made me think they were a rarity. The explanation that Snoke forged it satisfied me. He was a creepy guy.... I bet he managed to use the force in obscure and nasty ways unknown to Kylo, who seems to be still learning about the dark side. Luke’s projection also made sense. It seems that in the universe the power of the mind is incredible with the force by your side... It is implied in the film that Luke wasn’t the only one who had used this power. Kylo was aware of its existence.


For me the worse part of the hyperspace attack is to have holdo at the helm. Don’t this vessels have autopilot? Or droids with null consciousness that can be spared? That is the most inconsistent part about this.


Yoda and the tree? Ugh it’s yoda! so of course that is unprecedented and unique . Nobody is allowed to do what yoda does! so please, no ghost Luke fighting in the real world...

As you can see, I’m not too difficult to please. I approach films and stories with an open mind. TLJ is not perfect. The overall tone was very uneven, but I enjoyed the interesting storyline and character development it offered. TFA, on the other hand, was a little gem that will go down in history as the most underrated film of all the SW trilogies. Needless to say I loved it.

 

I understand totally, I have some pretty thick skin and a healthy dose of madness. This place is fun. AND NOW WE DANCE!!!

 

Rian film crew followed wrong Rey out of the mirror cave.

 

I feel the same way. Discussions should = present opinion with points supporting. If people can challenge points with counter points, then all is welcome.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Sep 14, 2018 ---

btw is it bad to be in "yellow"? What happens if a ton of people dislike your posts?

 

There are a lot of things that bother me, but one that really sticks out like a sore thumb is the lack of discussion between Finn and Leia, and the actions of her son. Finn knows that Kylo is her son, but he doesn't bring it up. I'm sorry, but based on that alone if I am outsider I would have reservations about helping the Resistance. At least bring it up. Just using common sense there is no way something as big as that should have been ignored. I think Leia should have played a much bigger part in Finn's decision since they were around each other.

Having scenes of Leia being an actual leader, and showing people like Finn why they are doing what they are doing despite her son being on the other side would have been more powerful than Leia flying through space.

 

i would have quite liked to have seen a conversation between an ex-trooper and Kylo Ren's mum, or perhaps Finn talking to Poe about it all.

maybe we will see something in ep9 (clearly a chat with Leia is unlikely now). With 8 following straight on from 7.. things happened quickly. Finn woke up and pretty much packed a bag immediately to go find Rey.. i don't think he was giving the resistance or the FO a second thought at that point.