Thread for those who loved the movie

It's his reasoning that I am questioning, it is flawed and eschews context. And again, this is not an indictment exclusive to his video, as I mention, many videos are guilty of the same. I'm just surprised to see the soft landing that this particular video received in this thread when there are a number of regular contributors to this thread who have argued against videos providing salient points when they were critiquing TLJ.

I think you are prosecuting an in-universe argument while I am talking about LFL's management, encouragement, and amplification of fan speculation that has come back to bite them in the butt. There's a contextual argument to be made here (about how much we know about the GFFA in ESB vs how much we know about it by the time TLJ rolls around).

SW is not the only one to drop the ball on a reveal or to tease something only to subvert it and lose fans (I'm looking at you Iron Man 3 and the Mandarin). I'm not arguing what Rian's stated themes were, I'm arguing that TLJ was a swing and a miss and I expect it to take it's toll on future down stream products. It was interesting to see that other thread of predictions that people thought would ruin SW for them, and how many of those things that were incorporated in TLJ. You obviously can't respond to/cater to/or be constrained by every fan theory - it would be logistically and artistically impossible. But I would make the case that if LFL doesn't figure out how to appeal to the hard core SW fans and invoke the same magic in this next generation that was around for the OT, there won't be any more SW (at least not any worth patronizing)

Naw, I think I'll stay and make myself comfortable like you do in the "Hated It" thread. *Takes off shoes and puts on slippers* I'm here to stay. What's in the fridge?

 

As you can tell because I am discussing these things in the Loved the movie thread. I 100% disagree with you TLJ is a swing and a miss. I find it right up with ESB as the best Star Wars movie. WIll also say it is the most thought provoking and the film with the most depth. So if you are just going to tell me I am wrong them, catch you later.

 

In fairness, most of it seems to stem from other on going talks in other threads that get merged into the hate thread. I don't *think* Andrew was seeking out the hate thread, but that's just from my view.

 

The mods asked me to leave because the "hater" wanted their own thread and didn't want to debate. Which is fine. I don't really care who comes in here, it's odd to me if it's just negative stuff that has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

"Swing and a miss" is my opinion. I have much more colorful language and visual metaphors I can use but you get the gist... it's an opinion. It's subjective. Assessing TLJ to be up there with ESB, and feeling it was thought provoking and full of depth is your opinion. That's subjective. If you're not inclined to pursue it further, so be it (I'm saying this without any sarcasm).

The video was my point of contention. It is highly subjective, but if you agree with him that's fine (well... at least on some points, on other points he's actually objectively wrong). But it's an opinion.

I am dubious as to whether all of his entries on the "Hated It" thread are courtesy of merged posts. It's not impossible, but I don't think it's probable. But even if that were the case, there are plenty of people who liked the movie that continue to post in that thread. And there's really no forum rule that says they can't - so we could continue to complain about it, or we can just post in other places too. I choose the latter. It wasn't my intent initially at all (thought both the "Loved It" and "Hated It" threads served a useful purpose) but others have seen it differently, so here we are. Plus, there are some benefits to jumping the fence and posting elsewhere anyway.

Mod asked you to leave? I didn't see that. It's possible I could have missed it but I don't recall anyone saying that to anyone EVER. There are a number of people who come in to the "Hated It" thread who have attacked the posts of those who didn't like it and insulted posters almost reflexively; that went on for quite a long time. If people were asked to leave because of that, I'd certainly understand. I would say otherwise, the mods have done very little to prevent or even discourage people from entering the "Hated It" thread who didn't actually hate the movie. I don't imagine they'll do anything different with me being here.

 

So what happened is he posted positive fake reviews and was criticizing them for being "positive." I point out the double standard that they were already fake to begin with, but now its problem, because it breaks the narrative? He claimed I added nothing to conversation and he wanted it to stop, because I was criticizing his opinion. Then he throws shade at the movie, then I go "oh it's okay for you to throw "insults"?" He didn't offer any real criticism. I used the word "insult" because that's what he thought I was doing.

 

cold pizza? and something kinda green in a tupperware that we should probably just skip. : o p

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hey all! let's go on talking about Star Wars and move on from the whys and wherefores of threads and who said what where, yeah?

 

nope, had that

nope.. had that too

wonderful idea !

so would we have loved TLJ more or less.. had we actually seen Chewie bite into that delicious Porg?

 

I always wondered why those Porgs waited until Chewie had slaughtered and cooked some other Porgs before they made Chewie feel guilty?

 

he already cooked it!
waste not, want not! XD

 

As great as TLJ is in a film sense in some sequences, It did something wrong to cut the fandom in half, It didn't have to but it did, why was this a necessary goal for Lucasfilm?

 

i don't like posting in this thread (or the other one lol), but i'd like to give my 5 cents on this..

we could debate how the quick growing fan base felt about the OT during the 80's, or how the blooming fan base felt when the PT came out... as the split in fandom that you're talking about is actually nothing new. It feels like a bigger issue because we're a much better linked community these days and our voices (pro or con) are simply that much louder. but getting away from that, i'd like to go at it from a different direction..

long term (and i'm talking years) this is all a good thing. crazy statement - i know, but the real beauty of Star Wars (to me) is that the content of every single one of the movies continues to be debatable for years. we all have our own head canon - which is the most wonderful thing about us all, and whilst everyone's all shouting and hollering right now.. things will settle. more films that are loved/hated will come out. the fandom spins on.

The Last Jedi will be a talking point forever.. time will prove me right/wrong, but i say it's a good thing.

 

That it will; the one problem I do have with the new direction:



Hopefully I'm wrong.

 

Except not everyone is.
Just anyone can be.

There's a huge difference between everyone is super and anyone can be super.
The legacy of the PT made it more that a special lineage was a prerequisite for being a Star Wars hero.

The ST is saying ANYONE can be a hero. You don't have to be a Skywalker or a Kenobi. Rey from nowhere has just as much likelihood of being a hero as the grandson of Darth Vader. There's no special gate keeping door of ancestry now.

 

That's what the prequels were. I'm hoping you at least hated those, and not cherry picking.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 15, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 15, 2018 ---

Did people not watch the prequels? There were so many Jedi that didn't have the "proper bloodline" or bloodline at all and they were just strong in the Force.

 

"hero" in the literary sense.
Notice almost all those other "heroes" were iced in like 30 seconds.
We needed the "true hero" with the special name and bloodline to save us

 

If there's any Brad Bird film quote that describes the current trajectory of Lucasfilm regarding Force-sensitive people, this is the quote:

Besides, we can argue how little sense does this quote make when put out of the context of Syndrome-Mr. Incredible rivarly, but that's not the topic of the discussion.

 

I saw the exchange, it didn't fully make sense. Was that merged from another thread? I tend to take the down turn in sales as evidence of the issues with TLJ. RT continues to assert that they have mechanisms in place to prevent manipulation, and almost all of the articles that I read which suggest that RT may have been manipulated go no further than that suggestion. They say it may have been manipulated and cite an unverified claim that a Facebook user/group did it. Not exactly hard hitting investigative journalism. But I think it served it's purpose because most people repeated the talking point that RT was manipulated as opposed to what most of the articles said which was it "might have been" manipulated.

There are way too many reviews to walk through them now. I did see the screen caps of the newest batch that were all 5 Star ratings and it obviously looks suspicious. I imagine if you had the time and patience you could go further back and find numerous negative reviews with similar short verbiage in the review that look suspicious. I honestly think in general RT can be trusted. Wtih TLJ however, it's perhaps just different because of the movie and the intensity of the fandom, I wouldn't make any hard decisions based on RT alone for TLJ (for good or for bad) That's just my take.

 

I've rewatched the movie yestarday and, you know what, Canto Bight is not pointless! Yeah, it is one of those controversial statements I am know for.
Here's why I think so. Everything in the movie serves to move the develepment of the main characters. CB is this for Finn. What was Finn's motivation up until that point in both movies? To look out for himself and his only friend Rey. That's why he went on that "mission" - not to help the Resistance, but to make sure Rey has a safe place to return to. Here's where Rose comes in. Rose's role in the movie is basically to push Finn in the right direction. So, by making him free the "horses", she show how great it actually is to fight for a good cause (notice how happy Finn is after they get away). Rose's opposite is DJ. He shows Finn that the world is not black and white (the X-Wing bit) and suggests that it is better to look out only for himself. In the end, when confronted by Phasma and DJ's betrayal, Finn chooses to become a Resistance fighter like Rose, rather than an egoistic bastard, like DJ ("Rebel scum" bit). Finn's character arc from both movies concludes when Rose shows him, that fighting for something is better than fighting against.
Sure, admittadle, it could all be a bit better executed, but still - good stuff in a great movie.

 

I was way more invested in what was going on with Luke/Rey/Kylo simply because Luke is my favorite character. I think that was the case for some other people as well. Now that I've had some time that part of the film is fine. I like the new planet and the Casino. Actually it isn't that big of part of the film. DJ's conversations with Finn are great and I really like Rose.