Thread for those who loved the movie

The thing with TLJ is that there is so much detail in the movie, that you can only notice if you watch it several times. And the answers to most questions people have are in the movie. For example, people keep asking what Rey's motivation is. Well, for most of TLJ (and TFA) she is looking to fill the void, left by her parents abandoning her. And it's not my interpretation, is what being said in the movie:

After being disappointed with Luke, she uns towards Kylo Ren and when that doesn't turn out the way she thought, Rey finally faces the fact that her parents are gone for good and she has to become her own person... Why do people keep insisting that she is not a character, doesn't have motivations and absolutely has to be related to somebody to be meaningful?

 

Because muh theories!!!

 

They clearly don't remember that Anakin came from a nobody, and rose to power without a powerful bloodline that came before him. I do think it would be interesting to see Rey's parents in 9 though.

 

I haven't seen people say she isn't a character so I can't speak to that aspect (she's not a particularly well drawn character if you were expecting some of the mystery created in TFA to be answered in TLJ). I personally really can't stand that she spent so much of the time she should have been principally growing and developing down her own hero's path, playing nurse maid to the emotional fragility of Luke and Kylo. And I think most people would be fine with her parentage not being a Skywalker if the Franchise had not heavily alluded to it in an effort to build up buzz. I think the general audience would have accepted a revelation of parents who were new characters we didn't know... what I don't think people wanted was for one of the most anticipated questions of the Franchise to be answered with a Carnival Fun House Mirror effect and told how great it was that the "big reveal" was that there was no big reveal. That's on the franchise. To me, they miscalculated.

 

If Episode IX was a 10-episode tv season, then - sure. Rey's character arc is about growing out of her parents abandoning her and it would be interesting to see how she would interact with her drunkard loser parents if they ever show up. But, as a two-hour movie, Ep.IX has too much to wrap up as it is, so it think the issue of Rey's parents should be laid to rest.

"Playing nurse maid" means she was taking care of their needs, which she didn't. The movie clearly and directly says why she was doing what she was doing with a quote I provided.

When exactly did that happen? With the "you have it too" trailer, that never specifically referred to Rey? At no point TFA suggested that Rey's parents were somebody important, it's just the fan way of thinking that went out of control. "Oh, her parents are a mystery! Then they must be someone imporant!".

 

i honestly don't get this. she yelled at and fought with Luke (hardly could be considered coddling), and then she rejected Ben when he didn't do what she wanted. in fact, she treated both similarly disposable when neither bowed to her wishes.

seems the very antithesis of "nurse maid", so maybe you're meaning the phrase in a different way?

as someone who came to TFA with absolutely zero expectations and no spoilers, i never thought for a moment Rey was a Skywalker.
i don't believe anything in the film could reasonably make you think that, and plenty in the film works against it.

 

In my opinion, it's a plot driven servitude that Rey is encumbered with, not an inherent consequence of things that happened in TFA. In order to make Kylo sympathetic we dive into more of his background (and by extension the corrupted Luke that is now before us) than we do of Rey.

LOL can you imagine Luke going to Dagobah and spending the bulk of the time trying to convince a broken Yoda who thinks the Jedi should die because he's ashamed of himself that the galaxy needs him? And he in turn initially begrudgingly offers 3 lessons? She absolutely played nurse maid to Luke; he does eventually show up to the fight right? Who is it that got him to re-engage?

Yes, agree they didn't specifically mention Rey, that was the point, to create speculation. This all subsumed by the fact that they didn't have to use the line at all. It was used NO WHERE in either of the movies. It was done purposefully so that fans would speculate. It's like Finn with the LS all over again. There's really no getting around this. LFL could have ended speculation in any of the areas where there was discussion quickly if they wanted to, they didn't because it served their purpose to have people speculate and create the head canon that they are only now bemoaning because it has blown up in their collective faces.

Sure, I agree***. All these things all happen... AFTER her emotional nursing of each character.

***Slight disagreement on the disposability characterization. I don't think she looks at them like refuse, she just walks away.

 

you could argue she soft-shoed Ben for a wee bit after trying to shoot him and calling him a murderous snake and other choice horrors. but she basically quarreled with Luke the whole time she was on Ahch-To.

and frankly, i think it's worse that she walks away after not getting what she wants because it looks (especially in Ben's case) like she was just feeding him a line and never really cared about his actual well-being. i don't believe that necessarily--i think she's just incredibly naive--but you can read a kind of selfishness into all of it.

 

Rey is one of the few characters who isn't duplicitous. She doesn't mislead people. In whatever manner she prodded Luke it was to get him to re-engage and finally she does give up. She does the same with Ben, she gave up trying to redeem him. Her face when she closes the door to the MF reads as disappointed in Ben, but resolved to do what had to be done.

 

like i said, i don't believe she had ill will. but she did make promises to Ben and then broke them by not following through.
but to be fair they were both completely unreasonable with one another, so i do applaud her for recognizing her mistake and walking away (even though that wasn't a nice thing to do).

to me none of that could be considered coddling or nurse-maiding.
she merely thought it would be easy to say: hey i'll help you and we'll stop the war and it'll be awesome.
meanwhile, Ben is on a completely different train going in the opposite direction and she doesn't even realize it.

 

No, because Luke didn't come to Yoda because the Galaxy needs him. If Yoda was broken and refused to teach Luke, he would have just left.

Yoda. Did you even watch the movie?

I feel sorry for people, who create their haed canon based on trailers alone. Because trailers are commercials, and commercials lie. All the time.

 

More random thoughts.

So, remember the milking scene? You were dreaming of seeing Luke Skywalker - this great hero, a Jedi Master, who is going to save the Galaxy with his infinite power and enlighten you with his infinite wisdon. And instead, you meet some old hermit, who milks aliens. Shocking, right? Yeah, that's the point. Because you were seeing it from Rey's perspective and she is as shocked as you are at the moment (the camera even shows her face).
As almost everything, the milking scene serves a purpose. It's made this way to hit you on the head that the Legend is very different from the real person and also kickstarts Rey's character development into being free from her parental abandonment issues. The fact, that the scene made so many people angry show how very well made it is.

 

It's not ill will but she clearly has a void in her life where a strong parental figure would be. She's desperately seeking to fill it.
Han fills it briefly.
Luke never filled it and she grew angry with him because she EXPECTED him to fill that void.
She thought Kylo could.

There's a tear of selfish naivety running through Rey. It's a character flaw. She doesn't mean to "use" people but it's a flaw within her to be so desperate for that parental figure she will basically throw away anyone who rejects her as if they are the bad guy. Hooray for coping mechanisms!

 

absolutely! and i don't denigrate her for it.
she and Ben in particular are both walking wounded and both actually want the same thing: to fill the same lonely longing void.

she could have taken a moment and reasoned with him; he clearly was having a reaction to just having killed Snoke.
but she didn't care about what he was going through, she just wanted him to stop the attack--because she said so.

she still made the right choice to walk away once things went south, but i think both of them handled the situation very poorly.

as children are apt to do. TLJ is about growing up, learning from mistakes, not dwelling on the past.
they are both wiser now. both about each other and themselves.

 

I know this is hardly original, but something clicked for me this morning: Assuming IX takes place after a time jump, TFA and TLJ will kind of feel like one giant movie together.

Then, we'll catch up with the characters in IX, and I imagine they'll have evolved in many ways- Poe in leadership, Finn and Rose's relationship, Rey as a Jedi, etc.


Basically, I'm excited to see how we'll view TLJ in the future- having two films linked as closely together as TFA and TLJ really hasn't quite been done in Star Wars before, and while I think currently it's part of the problem of the series, it could also be a strength if handled correctly in IX.

 

Well then, on the point we disagree. To have her reaching out to understand the man who has forcefully mind probed her, skewered the one father figure she had, and cut down the friend that she had, seems a ridiculous turn of events even in a years time let alone a week, but that's my opinion.

Yes, he wouldn't have stayed and tried to coax him back... like... Rey. She was made to help rehabilitate him.

Overlooking that Luke wasn't even connected to the Force for Yoda to reach him without Rey showing up - it was Rey's visit that results in Luke learning about Han, learning about the state of the galaxy, having to confront his actions with Kylo, etc. but Yoda shows up and nudges him past the finish line and so Rey has nothing to do with it? I feel like you're giving a little bit too much credit to the straw in breaking the "camel's back"

None of this changes the fact that LFL aided and fueled the speculation for their own purpose.

 

Luke is not the main character of the movie, so it's more like he was made to rehabilitate Rey.

If Rey's visit resulted in Luke getting back on track doesn't mean that Rey was "playing nurse maid" - as in actively trying to do that. She did, a bit, but it's not what she really wanted and it's not she was really trying to do. Rey is not trying to help Luke, she is trying to help herself.

Sure, they do need to sell the product they made. But you can't blame them for things they didn't actually say or do. At no point did anything even remotely suggest that Rey was a Skywalker, so you can't blame LFL for making you think that. That "you have it too" trailer only suggested, that someone in the movie was from Luke's family, and someone did indeed. It just wasn't Rey.

 

we can't know what they feel of each other in the Force (but they clearly do). Rey's compassion may be naive, but it's also partly motivated by forces we don't (and can't) understand. they may be enemies, but they are also kindred and for Rey, that's more important because it's what drives her.

 

yes - it is ridiculous.

in my head (possibly the only place scarier than Kylo Ren's).. Rey is sensing/feeling a very different Ben Solo when she connects with him.



I know he committed some awful acts.. one of which was right in front of Rey, but that's not so dissimilar to Luke seeing Vader cut down his mentor in front of him.
What Luke sensed from his father later on made him believe that he was worth saving.

I like to think that what Rey senses when she connects with Ben.. added together with Han's loving sacrifice for his son in front of her - makes her think that Ben is worth saving.


i still think that this is the scene that split the fan base. i think that without empathy for Han's son at this point.. TLJ and the on-going story was going to be very difficult to get on board with. my humble opinion of course

#SaveBenSolo